TOTALLY GEEKED!

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Sue Klebold, Mother of Columbine Killer Dylan Klebold, Speaks

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

I can't imagine going through what she did. I think she did the right thing by not doing an interview until nearly 20 years later. That is respect for the families.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I highly recommend Andrew Soloman's book Far From the Tree. It's about parents of children who are profoundly different in some way - whether that is a physical difference, or a mental difference, or a child that is in prison, an addict etc. It's an amazing book. She was interviewed for it and that chapter was spellbinding. She is haunted by what her child did and I feel for her.

Lindley · Guru

I respect the fact that she didn't make excuses or claimed that he really was a good boy. I feel for her. Not only is she grieving that her son was at fault and caused pain for other kids and their families, but she lost her son too and has to live with the consequences and quilt of what her son has done and the condemnation from the public.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I think it does us all some good to see the parent.

We've all did the "where's the mom/dad" or "why didn't they see it" and we've blamed parents but to see it through their eyes, even a little bit, is a good reminder that every troubled soul was someone's baby.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

Her heart must have been broken.

To have her son, do something so terrible.

And take his own life.

What a horrible thing, to live with.

My heart hurts, for her.

And, for all the parents who lost their children, that day. cry

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

He had a good upbringing. He choose evil. She didnt kill , he did. I dont think that there was anything she could have done that would have changed it.

burns07 · Guru

it takes a lot of warp to just walk in and shoot unarmed innocents in cold blood--a lot of disassociation, profound in fact--it takes a lot to shoot ARMED antagonists, let alone unarmed and it stays with you for a long time afterward

believe the boy was truly mentally ill in some fashion--that could never be held against her and she should never hold it against herself

lord, what a tragedy

weltschmerz · Guru

There were SO many signs. So many.
Nobody put the pieces together.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

weltschmerz wrote:
There were SO many signs. So many.
Nobody put the pieces together.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Parents don't look at their kids and assume the worst (usually). They want to see the good in them. In the end they say, "I should have..." but in the middle of it they want to believe they have a loving normal child.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
There were SO many signs. So many.
Nobody put the pieces together.

What signs for him? Yeah if she had read the private journal. But spending time alone in your room or being a quiet teen isnt a sign of anything necessarily.

If she waz like Lanzas mother who bought guns for her mentally disturbed son then yes she has blame. Not sure what if any intervention would have thwarted what they had been planning for a year.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

We all want to believe that there is some magical warning sign and some magical intervention. Some people simply choose evil. Yes we should do everything in our power to stop it. But you cannot be privvy to someone else's thoughts 24/7.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
I highly recommend Andrew Soloman's book Far From the Tree. It's about parents of children who are profoundly different in some way - whether that is a physical difference, or a mental difference, or a child that is in prison, an addict etc. It's an amazing book. She was interviewed for it and that chapter was spellbinding. She is haunted by what her child did and I feel for her.

I'd be interested in reading that. Thanks.

flan

weltschmerz · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
There were SO many signs. So many.
Nobody put the pieces together.
What signs for him? Yeah if she had read the private journal. But spending time alone in your room or being a quiet teen isnt a sign of anything necessarily.

If she waz like Lanzas mother who bought guns for her mentally disturbed son then yes she has blame. Not sure what if any intervention would have thwarted what they had been planning for a year.

What about the paper he handed in for school, that was so disturbing that they didn't accept it and called his mother?

huskerbb · Guru

Should she have seen some signs? Maybe. Maybe she even did--but NO ONE truly thinks that their child is going to do something like this. It's unfathomable. It's so far out of the realm of almost everyone's experience that it would never cross their mind even if they do see some red flags.

This is also why I have an issue with trying to somehow hold parents criminally liable for stuff their kids do. These kids were TEENAGERS. Had the guns been locked up it's HIGHLY likely the teens would have access to them, anyway, whether intentionally or because it's just what teens do.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

huskerbb wrote:
Should she have seen some signs? Maybe. Maybe she even did--but NO ONE truly thinks that their child is going to do something like this. It's unfathomable. It's so far out of the realm of almost everyone's experience that it would never cross their mind even if they do see some red flags.

This is also why I have an issue with trying to somehow hold parents criminally liable for stuff their kids do. These kids were TEENAGERS. Had the guns been locked up it's HIGHLY likely the teens would have access to them, anyway, whether intentionally or because it's just what teens do.

This. So much this. I can't believe I'm saying this but husker is so right. You don't look at your child and think "OMG Maybe he's going to go shoot up a school!" Parents look at their kids and they want to see innocence. It's like when a child is being sexually abused by a relative. The signs may be there but no parent thinks, or wants to think, Hey, maybe uncle Bob is molesting my kid. No parent's brain automatically goes to that level. At least not the normal one. So even when there are signs parents will often brush them off as other things.

weltschmerz · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
Should she have seen some signs? Maybe. Maybe she even did--but NO ONE truly thinks that their child is going to do something like this. It's unfathomable. It's so far out of the realm of almost everyone's experience that it would never cross their mind even if they do see some red flags.

This is also why I have an issue with trying to somehow hold parents criminally liable for stuff their kids do. These kids were TEENAGERS. Had the guns been locked up it's HIGHLY likely the teens would have access to them, anyway, whether intentionally or because it's just what teens do.

This kids got their guns from an older classmate. They got her to legally buy them.

I doubt the mother even knew there WERE guns to lock up.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

flan327 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I highly recommend Andrew Soloman's book Far From the Tree. It's about parents of children who are profoundly different in some way - whether that is a physical difference, or a mental difference, or a child that is in prison, an addict etc. It's an amazing book. She was interviewed for it and that chapter was spellbinding. She is haunted by what her child did and I feel for her.
I'd be interested in reading that. Thanks.
flan

I'd like to read it too.

huskerbb · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Should she have seen some signs? Maybe. Maybe she even did--but NO ONE truly thinks that their child is going to do something like this. It's unfathomable. It's so far out of the realm of almost everyone's experience that it would never cross their mind even if they do see some red flags.

This is also why I have an issue with trying to somehow hold parents criminally liable for stuff their kids do. These kids were TEENAGERS. Had the guns been locked up it's HIGHLY likely the teens would have access to them, anyway, whether intentionally or because it's just what teens do.
This kids got their guns from an older classmate. They got her to legally buy them.
I doubt the mother even knew there WERE guns to lock up.

Um, yeah, not remotely the point, but whatever.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

www.farfromthetree.com

I will warn you. The book is like 700 pages long. But it's a quick read and it's super interesting.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
There were SO many signs. So many.
Nobody put the pieces together.
What signs for him? Yeah if she had read the private journal. But spending time alone in your room or being a quiet teen isnt a sign of anything necessarily.

If she waz like Lanzas mother who bought guns for her mentally disturbed son then yes she has blame. Not sure what if any intervention would have thwarted what they had been planning for a year.
What about the paper he handed in for school, that was so disturbing that they didn't accept it and called his mother?

She never saw the paper.

weltschmerz · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
There were SO many signs. So many.
Nobody put the pieces together.
What signs for him? Yeah if she had read the private journal. But spending time alone in your room or being a quiet teen isnt a sign of anything necessarily.

If she waz like Lanzas mother who bought guns for her mentally disturbed son then yes she has blame. Not sure what if any intervention would have thwarted what they had been planning for a year.
What about the paper he handed in for school, that was so disturbing that they didn't accept it and called his mother?
She never saw the paper.

And why not? If the school contacted me that my son's paper couldn't be accepted because it was so dark and disturbing, you can bet I'd insist on seeing it and getting him some help.

huskerbb · Guru

Oh for fvck's sake. Do you think Stephen King wasn't writing crap that was "dark and disturbing" when he was in high school English? The crap he wrote probably scared his teachers to death--but did he need to be rushed to some psychologist to get "help"????

So everyone that writes about unicorn farts and care bears is a great kid--and everyone who might write about something odd or morbid or violent needs "help"?

That in and of itself signifies NOTHING.

weltschmerz · Guru

In February of '99, Dylan Klebold turned in a story he wrote about an assassin in a black trench coat who shoots down students and bombs the city. "The man unloadeone of the pistols across the fronts of [the] four innocents," Klebold wrote. "The…streetlights caused a visible reflection off of the droplets of blood…I understood his actions."

Klebold's teacher later called it "the most vicious story she'd ever read," and voiced her concerns about it to Klebold's parents and his school counselor. But no school official ever looked into the matter, and it ended there. It was two months before the shootings.

www.cbsnews.com/news/columbine-were-there-warning-signs/

Read the whole thing. There were signs everywhere, but nobody did a thing.
Seems like they're pretty good at denial and cover ups, though.

huskerbb · Guru

There were signs--but they weren't really signs.

You can't jail someone for writing a story. You can't jail someone based on something you think they MIGHT do.

weltschmerz · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
There were signs--but they weren't really signs.

You can't jail someone for writing a story. You can't jail someone based on something you think they MIGHT do.

"Um, yeah, not remotely the point, but whatever."

Who said anything about jail, besides you?

huskerbb · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
There were signs--but they weren't really signs.

You can't jail someone for writing a story. You can't jail someone based on something you think they MIGHT do.
"Um, yeah, not remotely the point, but whatever."
Who said anything about jail, besides you?

Detention, then, or waving whatever magic wand you think would work.

weltschmerz · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
There were signs--but they weren't really signs.

You can't jail someone for writing a story. You can't jail someone based on something you think they MIGHT do.
"Um, yeah, not remotely the point, but whatever."
Who said anything about jail, besides you?
Detention, then, or waving whatever magic wand you think would work.

They needed to see a psychiatrist to see if they were a danger to themselves or others. They needed HELP.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

He wrote a story that later was found to have context.

If he had not killed anyone, it would just be a story.

The point of the OP, in my opinion, is not about the shooter. It's about his mom.

I bet she blames herself more than anyone else ever could.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
There were signs--but they weren't really signs.

You can't jail someone for writing a story. You can't jail someone based on something you think they MIGHT do.
"Um, yeah, not remotely the point, but whatever."
Who said anything about jail, besides you?
Detention, then, or waving whatever magic wand you think would work.
They needed to see a psychiatrist to see if they were a danger to themselves or others. They needed HELP.

husker doesn't believe in psychiatrists.

flan

weltschmerz · Guru

flan327 wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
There were signs--but they weren't really signs.

You can't jail someone for writing a story. You can't jail someone based on something you think they MIGHT do.
"Um, yeah, not remotely the point, but whatever."
Who said anything about jail, besides you?
Detention, then, or waving whatever magic wand you think would work.
They needed to see a psychiatrist to see if they were a danger to themselves or others. They needed HELP.
husker doesn't believe in psychiatrists.
flan

Of course not. It's all psychobabble.

These kids were just fine, like Stephen King was just fine.

No cause for alarm and nothing to see here.

huskerbb · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
There were signs--but they weren't really signs.

You can't jail someone for writing a story. You can't jail someone based on something you think they MIGHT do.
"Um, yeah, not remotely the point, but whatever."
Who said anything about jail, besides you?
Detention, then, or waving whatever magic wand you think would work.
They needed to see a psychiatrist to see if they were a danger to themselves or others. They needed HELP.

The guy who shot up the theater in Aurora WAS seeing a psychiatrist. How did that help?

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

weltschmerz wrote:
flan327 wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
There were signs--but they weren't really signs.

You can't jail someone for writing a story. You can't jail someone based on something you think they MIGHT do.
"Um, yeah, not remotely the point, but whatever."
Who said anything about jail, besides you?
Detention, then, or waving whatever magic wand you think would work.
They needed to see a psychiatrist to see if they were a danger to themselves or others. They needed HELP.
husker doesn't believe in psychiatrists.
flan
Of course not. It's all psychobabble.
These kids were just fine, like Stephen King was just fine.
No cause for alarm and nothing to see here.

So Stephen King is not fine in your opinion? Although he is able to write dark stories without living them in real life? Many people have artistic "dark" thoughts and channel them into writing or painting or music lyrics. They don't kill a bunch of people.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Evil is not a pyschiatric illness that is treatable.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
flan327 wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
There were signs--but they weren't really signs.

You can't jail someone for writing a story. You can't jail someone based on something you think they MIGHT do.
"Um, yeah, not remotely the point, but whatever."
Who said anything about jail, besides you?
Detention, then, or waving whatever magic wand you think would work.
They needed to see a psychiatrist to see if they were a danger to themselves or others. They needed HELP.
husker doesn't believe in psychiatrists.
flan
Of course not. It's all psychobabble.
These kids were just fine, like Stephen King was just fine.
No cause for alarm and nothing to see here.
So Stephen King is not fine in your opinion? Although he is able to write dark stories without living them in real life? Many people have artistic "dark" thoughts and channel them into writing or painting or music lyrics. They don't kill a bunch of people.

Who has Stephen King killed?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Fictionally, he's killed 100s.

You'd think someone who is supposed to have a psych degree could tell the difference between real life and fiction.