TOTALLY GEEKED!

My father, the holy roller, disagrees with his statements as well. And he's a Cruz fan.

FNW wrote:

---

Oh, the Pope most certainly can have that wall torn down, or at the very least, leave the gates opened, unarmed, and not require security checkpoints. And if he's so "Christian", then why isn't he letting these poor Syrian refugees camp out in the Sistine Chapel? Or why isn't he selling some of that invaluable artwork to fund Syrian housing and relocation?

---

 Those checkpoints and walls are only around certain parts of Vatican City. Again, anyone can walk right into St Peter's square and into St Peter's Bascillica. No walls, no checkpoints, no guards...those things only exist around the government buildings and the museum. Much like in the US, one has to go through security to enter things like football stadiums, some government buildings etc. Vatican City proper has no walls, no security, no checkpoints. Only once you enter the government buildings do you need to go through those - much like in the US. 

Sure they don't. Then he wouldn't mind me borrowing one.

Right. So as a Catholic, I own them. So I would like to display some of "my" belongings.

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

FNW wrote:

---

Oh, the Pope most certainly can have that wall torn down, or at the very least, leave the gates opened, unarmed, and not require security checkpoints. And if he's so "Christian", then why isn't he letting these poor Syrian refugees camp out in the Sistine Chapel? Or why isn't he selling some of that invaluable artwork to fund Syrian housing and relocation?

---

 Yep.  Priests and nuns take vows of poverty, and the Pope lives in a palace in a walled city surrounded by priceless works of art and travels the world with security and servants.  

---

 That's your rebuttal? Any Pope has spent years as a priest, serving his people.

flan

Mellow Momma wrote:

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FNW wrote:

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Sure they don't. Then he wouldn't mind me borrowing one.

---

 ???? They aren't his to loan. 

---

 No one is listening to you...

 What a surprise.

flan

huskerbb wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

Spoiler

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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I have been to Vatican City. It is NOT all walled in. You can walk right into St Peter's square without any walls as a barrier. You can go right inside St Peter's Basilica - no walls. If you want to go inside the Vatican Museum, yes, there are walls around that. But to say there are walls around all of Vatican City is simply not true.

---

 Thanks for the clarification. I believe cadiver said the same thing.

Interesting how facts get ignored if they don't fit the particular agenda..."Let's Crucify the Pope!"

flan

---

 Oh brother.  Let the Drama Games begin!  One can disagree with the Pope's comments without a "crucifixition".   Get yer cray cray on!   

---

 You know, I need to take notes on that.

Funny how non-believers are accused of "Christian-bashing," but it's fine to call the head of the Roman Catholic Church a "poophead..."

flan

---

 The Pope is just a man, flan.  Nothing more.  And if any Christian came out claiming someone else was not a Christian for wanting to build a wall while living behind one, we would call him a lot worse. 

---

 What part of "the current Pope does not get to choose where he lives" is so hard to understand? And, as has been noted upthread, he is commenting on Trump's motivation, which he has every right to call "not Christian."

And, being raised Catholic, I would dispute the statement that he is "just a man." He is called Our Holy Father for a reason.

From The Catholic Encyclopedia:

The Pope is "the Bishop of Rome, who, in virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth."

flan

---

---

---

 Huh?  You aren't even Catholic anymore.  And, God Himself is the Holy Father.    Calling Priess "Father" does equate them with God.  However, i know there are some Catholics who subscribe to Papal Infallibility and that is fine.  But, are you now claiming to be a devout Catholic or something?  Sometimes you make no sense.

---

 I am explaining what Catholics are taught.

Catholicism is very different from most Protestant beliefs. I can talk about a religion without following it.

flan

---

 You must not know what Catholics are taught or you would know damn well that they are NOT taught that being a Christian depends on your stance on one political issue.  What part of the Catechism or Bible says that?

Oh, that's right--NONE.

 

---

 And where did I say that?

flan

flan327 wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic school, the whole bit. So I'm just as much Catholic as Flan is. And I think hes an idiot.
And my mother, the uber lib, yellow dog democrat, and crazy Catholic, disagrees with the pope. Strongly.
Thats tells me more than some lapsed Catholic that doesnt even believe in God. Balls of steel i tell ya!

---

 Considering my past, I had to develop them or I would never have survived. I don't have "multi-millionaire friends."

This Pope is amazing, in the way he cares for his flock.

flan

---

 And what are you babbling about friends? Brain lapse? 

The problem is that the Pope has decided he knows better than the Bible, and not just in this. That's a problem. The Pope is not above God.

Romans 14:1-5 ESV

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

The Pope is "the Bishop of Rome, who, in virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth."

The successor of the one who DENIED CHRIST three times?

flan327 wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

Spoiler

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Mellow Momma wrote:

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I have been to Vatican City. It is NOT all walled in. You can walk right into St Peter's square without any walls as a barrier. You can go right inside St Peter's Basilica - no walls. If you want to go inside the Vatican Museum, yes, there are walls around that. But to say there are walls around all of Vatican City is simply not true.

---

 Thanks for the clarification. I believe cadiver said the same thing.

Interesting how facts get ignored if they don't fit the particular agenda..."Let's Crucify the Pope!"

flan

---

 Oh brother.  Let the Drama Games begin!  One can disagree with the Pope's comments without a "crucifixition".   Get yer cray cray on!   

---

 You know, I need to take notes on that.

Funny how non-believers are accused of "Christian-bashing," but it's fine to call the head of the Roman Catholic Church a "poophead..."

flan

---

 The Pope is just a man, flan.  Nothing more.  And if any Christian came out claiming someone else was not a Christian for wanting to build a wall while living behind one, we would call him a lot worse. 

---

 What part of "the current Pope does not get to choose where he lives" is so hard to understand? And, as has been noted upthread, he is commenting on Trump's motivation, which he has every right to call "not Christian."

And, being raised Catholic, I would dispute the statement that he is "just a man." He is called Our Holy Father for a reason.

From The Catholic Encyclopedia:

The Pope is "the Bishop of Rome, who, in virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth."

flan

---

---

---

 Huh?  You aren't even Catholic anymore.  And, God Himself is the Holy Father.    Calling Priess "Father" does equate them with God.  However, i know there are some Catholics who subscribe to Papal Infallibility and that is fine.  But, are you now claiming to be a devout Catholic or something?  Sometimes you make no sense.

---

 I am explaining what Catholics are taught.

Catholicism is very different from most Protestant beliefs. I can talk about a religion without following it.

flan

---

 You must not know what Catholics are taught or you would know damn well that they are NOT taught that being a Christian depends on your stance on one political issue.  What part of the Catechism or Bible says that?

Oh, that's right--NONE.

 

---

 And where did I say that?

flan

---

 The pope said exactly that.  We are saying that he is wrong on that.  You are defending that stance.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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The Pope is "the Bishop of Rome, who, in virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth."

The successor of the one who DENIED CHRIST three times?

---

 Yes. You know God's plan better than He does?

flan

flan327 wrote:

---

Ohfour wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Ohfour wrote:

---

I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic school, the whole bit. So I'm just as much Catholic as Flan is. And I think hes an idiot.
And my mother, the uber lib, yellow dog democrat, and crazy Catholic, disagrees with the pope. Strongly.
Thats tells me more than some lapsed Catholic that doesnt even believe in God. Balls of steel i tell ya!

---

 Considering my past, I had to develop them or I would never have survived. I don't have "multi-millionaire friends."

This Pope is amazing, in the way he cares for his flock.

flan

---

 Well, millions of us did survive, and without the attitude you have. You think you are the only one that was put through grueling Catholic School? Yeah, the vast majority of us came out quite normal and dont blame the school/church for our insecurities...

---

 NOT talking about elementary school...not even close.

flan

---

 Neither was I. ..

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

Mellow Momma wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Mellow Momma wrote:

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FNW wrote:

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Sure they don't. Then he wouldn't mind me borrowing one.

---

 ???? They aren't his to loan. 

---

 No one is listening to you...

 What a surprise.

flan

---

 It would be like going to the Smithsonian and asking to take the Hope diamond out for a loan. Those things belong to all of the American people. Not just one. 

---

 But the church is supposed to lead by example.  A church shouldn't have riches and valuables such as these.  They should be sold and the proceeds used to help the poor.

 

A government museum doesn't have the same obligation.

---

 I actually agree with that. But the fact is, the items in the Vatican museum don't belong to the pope. They belong to all of the Catholic people. However, he should be emptying the vast bank accounts of the Vatican to help the poor all over the world. 

 

My hometown church has 2 Tiffany windows that were donated to the church years and years ago. Should my hometown church be obligated to sell those windows to give the proceeds to the poor? They are priceless treasures, but they are also the only things of value the church has. 

Mellow Momma wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

Mellow Momma wrote:

---

flan327 wrote:

---

Mellow Momma wrote:

---

FNW wrote:

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Sure they don't. Then he wouldn't mind me borrowing one.

---

 ???? They aren't his to loan. 

---

 No one is listening to you...

 What a surprise.

flan

---

 It would be like going to the Smithsonian and asking to take the Hope diamond out for a loan. Those things belong to all of the American people. Not just one. 

---

 But the church is supposed to lead by example.  A church shouldn't have riches and valuables such as these.  They should be sold and the proceeds used to help the poor.

 

A government museum doesn't have the same obligation.

---

 I actually agree with that. But the fact is, the items in the Vatican museum don't belong to the pope. They belong to all of the Catholic people. However, he should be emptying the vast bank accounts of the Vatican to help the poor all over the world. 

 

My hometown church has 2 Tiffany windows that were donated to the church years and years ago. Should my hometown church be obligated to sell those windows to give the proceeds to the poor? They are priceless treasures, but they are also the only things of value the church has. 

---

 I guess that depends on what the church does to otherwise to help the poor.  The church has two jobs - bring people to Christ and help the poor.  If having beautiful windows and a nice building will inspire people to want to go to church, then that is a valid purpose to keep the windows.  And it matters that they were donated and that the church didn't spend money on them.  Having a ratty church doesn't inspire non-Christians to visit and keeping God's house well maintained is a duty.  

But the Vatican has VAULTS full of priceless treasures and spends a fortune to guard them.  How does that help anyone?

flan327 wrote:

---

lilyofcourse wrote:

---

The Pope is "the Bishop of Rome, who, in virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth."

The successor of the one who DENIED CHRIST three times?

---

 Yes. You know God's plan better than He does?

flan

---

 First of all, that is not "God's" plan.

 

Second, coming from someone who has said several times they don't believe in God to be arguing what God's plan is:  bawhahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahaha

huskerbb wrote:

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NO WAY should the stuff in the Vatican museums be sold off. That is a LUDICROUS proposition.

---

 Why?  According to the Bible, no one should hoard riches.  Why is the Catholic church so special that it doesn't apply?  

 

But, really, this is an academic argument about the Pope being a hypocrite and thinking he has the right to judge who is Christian and who is not.  Telling Trump it is "un-Christian" to build a wall and not help immigrants while he lives behind one like King Midas.

huskerbb wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

NO WAY should the stuff in the Vatican museums be sold off. That is a LUDICROUS proposition.

---

 Why?  According to the Bible, no one should hoard riches.  Why is the Catholic church so special that it doesn't apply?  

 

But, really, this is an academic argument about the Pope being a hypocrite and thinking he has the right to judge who is Christian and who is not.  Telling Trump it is "un-Christian" to build a wall and not help immigrants while he lives behind one like King Midas.

---

 Those things belong in a museum, not private collections.  They are valuable FAR beyond their monetary worth.   Its a valuable service that they are held for many to enjoy, and for history. 

---

It is not the church's job.   The church spends millions of dollars on preserving, securing and otherwise hoarding those treasures.  Money that could be spent on the poor.  

Museums?  Fine.  There are plenty around the world they could sell the treasures to. 

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

NO WAY should the stuff in the Vatican museums be sold off. That is a LUDICROUS proposition.

---

 Why?  According to the Bible, no one should hoard riches.  Why is the Catholic church so special that it doesn't apply?  

 

But, really, this is an academic argument about the Pope being a hypocrite and thinking he has the right to judge who is Christian and who is not.  Telling Trump it is "un-Christian" to build a wall and not help immigrants while he lives behind one like King Midas.

---

 Yeah, we ALL get your point.

flan

huskerbb wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

NO WAY should the stuff in the Vatican museums be sold off. That is a LUDICROUS proposition.

---

 Why?  According to the Bible, no one should hoard riches.  Why is the Catholic church so special that it doesn't apply?  

 

But, really, this is an academic argument about the Pope being a hypocrite and thinking he has the right to judge who is Christian and who is not.  Telling Trump it is "un-Christian" to build a wall and not help immigrants while he lives behind one like King Midas.

---

 Those things belong in a museum, not private collections.  They are valuable FAR beyond their monetary worth.   Its a valuable service that they are held for many to enjoy, and for history. 

---

It is not the church's job.   The church spends millions of dollars on preserving, securing and otherwise hoarding those treasures.  Money that could be spent on the poor.  

Museums?  Fine.  There are plenty around the world they could sell the treasures to. 

---

 That's just idiotic for you to presume to know what a church should or should not do.  Catholic charities spend BILLIONS on those endeavors.  More than any other church group in the world, and more than most, COMBINED.

---

 You are COMPLETELY missing the point, Husker.  Once again you have focused in on a miniscule detail and missed the big picture.  The POINT is that the Pope should not be pontificating about uncharitableness making you not a Christian while sitting surrounded by riches.  

And the Bible doesn't say "keep your riches if you determine yourself the keeper of the world's treasures".  

 

flan327 wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

NO WAY should the stuff in the Vatican museums be sold off. That is a LUDICROUS proposition.

---

 Why?  According to the Bible, no one should hoard riches.  Why is the Catholic church so special that it doesn't apply?  

 

But, really, this is an academic argument about the Pope being a hypocrite and thinking he has the right to judge who is Christian and who is not.  Telling Trump it is "un-Christian" to build a wall and not help immigrants while he lives behind one like King Midas.

---

 Yeah, we ALL get your point.

flan

---

 Good.  Because it's a damn good one.  Jesus hates hypocritical church leaders.

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

huskerbb wrote:

---

NO WAY should the stuff in the Vatican museums be sold off. That is a LUDICROUS proposition.

---

 Why?  According to the Bible, no one should hoard riches.  Why is the Catholic church so special that it doesn't apply?  

 

But, really, this is an academic argument about the Pope being a hypocrite and thinking he has the right to judge who is Christian and who is not.  Telling Trump it is "un-Christian" to build a wall and not help immigrants while he lives behind one like King Midas.

---

 Those things belong in a museum, not private collections.  They are valuable FAR beyond their monetary worth.   Its a valuable service that they are held for many to enjoy, and for history. 

---

It is not the church's job.   The church spends millions of dollars on preserving, securing and otherwise hoarding those treasures.  Money that could be spent on the poor.  

Museums?  Fine.  There are plenty around the world they could sell the treasures to. 

---

 That's just idiotic for you to presume to know what a church should or should not do.  Catholic charities spend BILLIONS on those endeavors.  More than any other church group in the world, and more than most, COMBINED.

---

 You are COMPLETELY missing the point, Husker.  Once again you have focused in on a miniscule detail and missed the big picture.  The POINT is that the Pope should not be pontificating about uncharitableness making you not a Christian while sitting surrounded by riches.  

And the Bible doesn't say "keep your riches if you determine yourself the keeper of the world's treasures".  

 

---

 You keep your riches.  

Why doent the Pope call out Nancy Pelosi for her stance on abortion?

Btw Trump isn't even Catholic so isnt he technically not a Christian anyway according to Church doctrine? So why would a Catholic Pope expect a non Catholic to uphold what he thinks is Catholic doctrine. The whole thing is just nonsensical.

Well, the pope did something the Bible says not to do.

And that's judge another.

So I guess that makes him "not a Christian" too.