TOTALLY GEEKED!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

RE: Pope Says Trump is Not Christian

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Seems pretty clear to me.

Yes, I am guilty of being judgmental.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Seems pretty clear to me.

Yes, I am guilty of being judgmental.

It's not nearly as clear as you think.

Christ does not condem the harlot for her sin, but neither does he ignore it. He absolutely wants repentance--and then further says "go forth and sin no more".

God does not want his church or his people to ignore ungodly behavior. He WANTS his church to speak out on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, pre-marital sex, and yes, charity (or lack, thereof). He wants his church to preach his word--and not just the "fun" parts.

Its LUDICROUS to say that bad behavior can never be condemned.

Now, we are to examine our own sinfulness in light of his law and ask for repentance for those sins. That is the point of the passage, not that we are to remain silent on the world's sinfulness.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 19th of February 2016 02:13:19 PM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Why doent the Pope call out Nancy Pelosi for her stance on abortion?

Btw Trump isn't even Catholic so isnt he technically not a Christian anyway according to Church doctrine? So why would a Catholic Pope expect a non Catholic to uphold what he thinks is Catholic doctrine. The whole thing is just nonsensical.

Actually, he did.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Seems pretty clear to me.

Yes, I am guilty of being judgmental.

It's not nearly as clear as you think.

Christ does not condem the harlot for her sin, but neither does he ignore it. He absolutely wants repentance--and then further says "go forth and sin no more".

God does not want his church or his people to ignore ungodly behavior. He WANTS his church to speak out on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, pre-marital sex, and yes, charity (or lack, thereof). He wants his church to preach his word--and not just the "fun" parts.

Its LUDICROUS to say that bad behavior can never be condemned.

Now, we are to examine our own sinfulness in light of his law and ask for repentance for those sins. That is the point of the passage, not that we are to remain silent on the world's sinfulness.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 19th of February 2016 02:13:19 PM

Husker is right. I saw several clergy speaking yesterday on this. They all said that people LOVE LOVE LOVE the no judgment part and always forget the part about go and sin no more. Christ was very clear about not going right back to your previous behavior.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
NO WAY should the stuff in the Vatican museums be sold off. That is a LUDICROUS proposition.
Why? According to the Bible, no one should hoard riches. Why is the Catholic church so special that it doesn't apply?

But, really, this is an academic argument about the Pope being a hypocrite and thinking he has the right to judge who is Christian and who is not. Telling Trump it is "un-Christian" to build a wall and not help immigrants while he lives behind one like King Midas.
Those things belong in a museum, not private collections. They are valuable FAR beyond their monetary worth. Its a valuable service that they are held for many to enjoy, and for history.
It is not the church's job. The church spends millions of dollars on preserving, securing and otherwise hoarding those treasures. Money that could be spent on the poor.
Museums? Fine. There are plenty around the world they could sell the treasures to.
That's just idiotic for you to presume to know what a church should or should not do. Catholic charities spend BILLIONS on those endeavors. More than any other church group in the world, and more than most, COMBINED.
You are COMPLETELY missing the point, Husker. Once again you have focused in on a miniscule detail and missed the big picture. The POINT is that the Pope should not be pontificating about uncharitableness making you not a Christian while sitting surrounded by riches.
And the Bible doesn't say "keep your riches if you determine yourself the keeper of the world's treasures".

You keep your riches.
I'm not a church leader, and I'm not the one going on the news telling others they are not Christian because they are not charitable enough.
The verses you cite do not apply only to church leaders.

Would you like to get into a checkbook war, Husker, to see which of us is hoarding more money and giving more to the church and charities? I do not hoard wealth.

And I'll tell you what - as soon as the Vatican sells all of their treasures, gives all their money to the poor, the pope lives in poverty, and they tear down that wall, I will sell my house and all my possessions and do the same.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Seems pretty clear to me.

Yes, I am guilty of being judgmental.

It's not nearly as clear as you think.

Christ does not condem the harlot for her sin, but neither does he ignore it. He absolutely wants repentance--and then further says "go forth and sin no more".

God does not want his church or his people to ignore ungodly behavior. He WANTS his church to speak out on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, pre-marital sex, and yes, charity (or lack, thereof). He wants his church to preach his word--and not just the "fun" parts.

Its LUDICROUS to say that bad behavior can never be condemned.

Now, we are to examine our own sinfulness in light of his law and ask for repentance for those sins. That is the point of the passage, not that we are to remain silent on the world's sinfulness.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 19th of February 2016 02:13:19 PM

And yet we are not to judge another.

Something the pope did.

Wasn't you who said preachers are to be held to a higher standard?

This is the head honcho pope breaking the commandment not to judge.

Seems to me, pointing out a sin is not the same as judging for that sin.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

It's not just judging. He said Trump is not a Christian. Is he? I have no earthly idea. That is between Trump and God.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Seems pretty clear to me.

Yes, I am guilty of being judgmental.

It's not nearly as clear as you think.

Christ does not condem the harlot for her sin, but neither does he ignore it. He absolutely wants repentance--and then further says "go forth and sin no more".

God does not want his church or his people to ignore ungodly behavior. He WANTS his church to speak out on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, pre-marital sex, and yes, charity (or lack, thereof). He wants his church to preach his word--and not just the "fun" parts.

Its LUDICROUS to say that bad behavior can never be condemned.

Now, we are to examine our own sinfulness in light of his law and ask for repentance for those sins. That is the point of the passage, not that we are to remain silent on the world's sinfulness.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 19th of February 2016 02:13:19 PM
Husker is right. I saw several clergy speaking yesterday on this. They all said that people LOVE LOVE LOVE the no judgment part and always forget the part about go and sin no more. Christ was very clear about not going right back to your previous behavior.

That two different things.

Pointing out sin is one thing.

But this pope can not give forgiveness. Sorry, only God can do that.

When you have been forgiven, you should go and sin no more.

But the pope is not pointing out a sin.

He said Trump is not a Christian.

I don't know if he is or isnt.

But I can't decide anyone is a Christian or not.

He could say the behavior isn't Christ like.

But to make the judgment that he just isn't a Christian, is against a commandment of the very book he is supposed to represent.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Seems pretty clear to me.

Yes, I am guilty of being judgmental.

It's not nearly as clear as you think.

Christ does not condem the harlot for her sin, but neither does he ignore it. He absolutely wants repentance--and then further says "go forth and sin no more".

God does not want his church or his people to ignore ungodly behavior. He WANTS his church to speak out on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, pre-marital sex, and yes, charity (or lack, thereof). He wants his church to preach his word--and not just the "fun" parts.

Its LUDICROUS to say that bad behavior can never be condemned.

Now, we are to examine our own sinfulness in light of his law and ask for repentance for those sins. That is the point of the passage, not that we are to remain silent on the world's sinfulness.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 19th of February 2016 02:13:19 PM
And yet we are not to judge another.
Something the pope did.
Wasn't you who said preachers are to be held to a higher standard?
This is the head honcho pope breaking the commandment not to judge.
Seems to me, pointing out a sin is not the same as judging for that sin.

You are just wrong. Using your illogical twisting of those verses, no preacher could ever speak out against premarital sex, or abortion, or drunkenness, or any other sin. That is an absurd position to take.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
It's not just judging. He said Trump is not a Christian. Is he? I have no earthly idea. That is between Trump and God.

That I agree with--and have said as much all along. Plus, he's wrong.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
NO WAY should the stuff in the Vatican museums be sold off. That is a LUDICROUS proposition.
Why? According to the Bible, no one should hoard riches. Why is the Catholic church so special that it doesn't apply?

But, really, this is an academic argument about the Pope being a hypocrite and thinking he has the right to judge who is Christian and who is not. Telling Trump it is "un-Christian" to build a wall and not help immigrants while he lives behind one like King Midas.
Those things belong in a museum, not private collections. They are valuable FAR beyond their monetary worth. Its a valuable service that they are held for many to enjoy, and for history.
It is not the church's job. The church spends millions of dollars on preserving, securing and otherwise hoarding those treasures. Money that could be spent on the poor.
Museums? Fine. There are plenty around the world they could sell the treasures to.
That's just idiotic for you to presume to know what a church should or should not do. Catholic charities spend BILLIONS on those endeavors. More than any other church group in the world, and more than most, COMBINED.
You are COMPLETELY missing the point, Husker. Once again you have focused in on a miniscule detail and missed the big picture. The POINT is that the Pope should not be pontificating about uncharitableness making you not a Christian while sitting surrounded by riches.
And the Bible doesn't say "keep your riches if you determine yourself the keeper of the world's treasures".

You keep your riches.
I'm not a church leader, and I'm not the one going on the news telling others they are not Christian because they are not charitable enough.
The verses you cite do not apply only to church leaders.
Would you like to get into a checkbook war, Husker, to see which of us is hoarding more money and giving more to the church and charities? I do not hoard wealth.

And I'll tell you what - as soon as the Vatican sells all of their treasures, gives all their money to the poor, the pope lives in poverty, and they tear down that wall, I will sell my house and all my possessions and do the same.

both in terms of raw dollars and a percentage of income, catholic charities gives more than either of us combined.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Seems pretty clear to me.

Yes, I am guilty of being judgmental.

It's not nearly as clear as you think.

Christ does not condem the harlot for her sin, but neither does he ignore it. He absolutely wants repentance--and then further says "go forth and sin no more".

God does not want his church or his people to ignore ungodly behavior. He WANTS his church to speak out on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, pre-marital sex, and yes, charity (or lack, thereof). He wants his church to preach his word--and not just the "fun" parts.

Its LUDICROUS to say that bad behavior can never be condemned.

Now, we are to examine our own sinfulness in light of his law and ask for repentance for those sins. That is the point of the passage, not that we are to remain silent on the world's sinfulness.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 19th of February 2016 02:13:19 PM
And yet we are not to judge another.
Something the pope did.
Wasn't you who said preachers are to be held to a higher standard?
This is the head honcho pope breaking the commandment not to judge.
Seems to me, pointing out a sin is not the same as judging for that sin.

You are just wrong. Using your illogical twisting of those verses, no preacher could ever speak out against premarital sex, or abortion, or drunkenness, or any other sin. That is an absurd position to take.

Yes. They can.

Was the pope saying it isn't Christ like ?

No.

Did the pope say building a wall was not Christ like?

No.

He flat out said Trump was not a Christian.

Not remotely the same.

You can say a behavior is sinful.

But to say the person isn't Christian is judging.

Are you defending the pope?

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Seems pretty clear to me.

Yes, I am guilty of being judgmental.

It's not nearly as clear as you think.

Christ does not condem the harlot for her sin, but neither does he ignore it. He absolutely wants repentance--and then further says "go forth and sin no more".

God does not want his church or his people to ignore ungodly behavior. He WANTS his church to speak out on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, pre-marital sex, and yes, charity (or lack, thereof). He wants his church to preach his word--and not just the "fun" parts.

Its LUDICROUS to say that bad behavior can never be condemned.

Now, we are to examine our own sinfulness in light of his law and ask for repentance for those sins. That is the point of the passage, not that we are to remain silent on the world's sinfulness.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 19th of February 2016 02:13:19 PM
And yet we are not to judge another.
Something the pope did.
Wasn't you who said preachers are to be held to a higher standard?
This is the head honcho pope breaking the commandment not to judge.
Seems to me, pointing out a sin is not the same as judging for that sin.

You are just wrong. Using your illogical twisting of those verses, no preacher could ever speak out against premarital sex, or abortion, or drunkenness, or any other sin. That is an absurd position to take.
Yes. They can.
Was the pope saying it isn't Christ like ?
No.
Did the pope say building a wall was not Christ like?
No.

He flat out said Trump was not a Christian.

Not remotely the same.
You can say a behavior is sinful.
But to say the person isn't Christian is judging.
Are you defending the pope?

They are BOTH judging by any normal definition of the word.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I really have no idea what you are attempting to argue.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

You're splitting hairs.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Why doent the Pope call out Nancy Pelosi for her stance on abortion?

Btw Trump isn't even Catholic so isnt he technically not a Christian anyway according to Church doctrine? So why would a Catholic Pope expect a non Catholic to uphold what he thinks is Catholic doctrine. The whole thing is just nonsensical.
Actually, he did.

So why is she still taking communion and b

not excommunicated?

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
I really have no idea what you are attempting to argue.

I'm arguing against the notion that we are "never" supposed to point out bad behavior--sins--which IS "judging".

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I really have no idea what you are attempting to argue.

I'm arguing against the notion that we are "never" supposed to point out bad behavior--sins--which IS "judging".

Ok. Neither am i.

Pointing out a sin is not the same thing as saying someone is not a Christian.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I really have no idea what you are attempting to argue.

I'm arguing against the notion that we are "never" supposed to point out bad behavior--sins--which IS "judging".
Ok. Neither am i.
Pointing out a sin is not the same thing as saying someone is not a Christian.

Maybe not, but it is judging--which you seem to think is not allowed.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I really have no idea what you are attempting to argue.

I'm arguing against the notion that we are "never" supposed to point out bad behavior--sins--which IS "judging".
Ok. Neither am i.
Pointing out a sin is not the same thing as saying someone is not a Christian.

Maybe not, but it is judging--which you seem to think is not allowed.

Judge not.

Seems clear to me. We can point out sin.

But we are not to judge.

Unless we want to be judged with the same measuring stick.

You can say premarital sex is a sin.

That isn't judging the person.

To say a person isn't a Christian is judging.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I really have no idea what you are attempting to argue.

I'm arguing against the notion that we are "never" supposed to point out bad behavior--sins--which IS "judging".
Ok. Neither am i.
Pointing out a sin is not the same thing as saying someone is not a Christian.

Maybe not, but it is judging--which you seem to think is not allowed.
Judge not.
Seems clear to me. We can point out sin.
But we are not to judge.
Unless we want to be judged with the same measuring stick.
You can say premarital sex is a sin.
That isn't judging the person.
To say a person isn't a Christian is judging.

BS. They are the EXACT SAME THING. We ARE judged with the same measuring stick.

huskerbb · Guru

I don't know what denomination this is from--but it's a pretty good synopsis of the "judge not" passage--and how it is so misused, as it has been today.

The Most Misquoted and Misused Bible Verse Of All Time
+JMJ+

May the word of the Lord be in our minds, on our lips and in our hearts.

Come Holy Spirit.....

How often have you heard somebody blurt out the words, "Judge not lest ye be judged?" And that's all they quote, of course. And it is almost always after someone has corrected them for sinning. "Judge not lest ye be judged" is easily the most misquoted and misused bible verse of all time. And I don't think think God is very happy with that, as it is clouding what it actually is He is asking us to do as a Christian community.

Here is the verse in it's entirety:

Matthew 7 (NIV version)

Judging Others
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

The entire teaching takes up 5 verses, but probably 99% of people stop quoting at verse 1. It's like their "get out of jail free" card when they are caught sinning by another person.
But look at the teaching in it's full context, which is the way Jesus spoke it. Noticed how it changes at verse 3? Verse 5 gives us the true meaning of this teaching. Jesus is teaching against hypocrisy, not judgment! This is why he says, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Jesus did not say, "do not attempt to remove the speck from your brother's eye." He is saying, take care of our sin first, so that we may more clearly see to help our brother. For example, how can I help my friend or family member stop lying so much, if I am committing adultery, myself? My sin is clouding my judgment, and is making me a hypocrite, as I am committing a form of lying, as well as the sin, itself.

If anything, Scripture teaching us that rebuking sinners is expected of us, by God:

1 Timothy 5: 20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.

Titus 1: 13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith

Titus 2: 15These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

2 Timothy 4: 2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

I deliberately included the rest of the teaching of 2 Timothy 4 as it is a great teaching, full of wisdom that applies today as well as it did 2,000 years ago.

So, what does it mean to "rebuke?"
From Dictionary.com

re·buke
–verb (used with object)
1.
to express sharp, stern disapproval of; reprove; reprimand.
–noun
2.
sharp, stern disapproval; reproof; reprimand.

So, we have at least 4 bible verses telling us to rebuke those who sin, and when you see the entire context of the famous "Judge not lest ye be judged" verse, it is clear what God's instructions for us really are. I will repeat one important portion of 2 Timothy 4, however: "correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction."

God does want us to see the best in everybody else, I feel, and to give people the benefit of the doubt. After all, we do not know their whole story, and we are certainly not sinless, ourselves. We have planks in our own eyes, as Jesus called it, that must be dealt with and removed first. So none of us can take a holier-than-thou attitude towards anyone else. We are all wretched sinners. But, we are very much are called to correct one another and to encourage against sinning with "great patience and understanding." And it makes perfect sense for God to expect us to do this for each other. Why? Because we do it out of love. We are supposed to love one another, that is one of the Greatest Commandments (see my earlier blog entry on those.) Sin is harmful to us, and to our relationship with the Lord. Therefore, if we truly love someone, should be not try to protect them from that which harms them? If someone is smoking, do we not try to encourage them to quit for their own good? And why do we care? Because we love them. Yet, smoking only harms their body. Sin harms their souls, which are eternal, not temporary, like their body. How much more important is it for us to encourage someone to not sin, then? But, if we were smokers, or even heavy drinkers or drug users, and then told someone not to smoke for their own good, we would then be hypocrites.

The Bible clearly shows, in verse after verse after verse, that we are to correct one another as an act of love. We are all brothers and sisters in this world, as well as in Christ. To not want to try to encourage someone to avoid sin would show a lack of love for that person and their spiritual well-being.

Some might (and will) say, "but aren't we all forgiven anyways? What does it matter? Christ forgave us, right?"

That subject will likely be another blog entry in the future, but in short, just because Christ will forgive us when we repent and ask for forgiveness, does not mean we are free to sin as we please with no attempts to avoid it. What if we died before we "got around" to asking for that forgiveness for our most recent sins? And, back to the topic at hand, what if our brothers and sisters in Christ are not even aware they are sinning? Or are so used to it they don't even notice that they are sinning? Much like a child who unknowingly is about to touch a hot stove, or walk out into a busy highway, we must stop them and correct them for their own good. After all, we are "our brother's keeper."

Godspeed, everyone.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I really have no idea what you are attempting to argue.

I'm arguing against the notion that we are "never" supposed to point out bad behavior--sins--which IS "judging".
Ok. Neither am i.
Pointing out a sin is not the same thing as saying someone is not a Christian.

Maybe not, but it is judging--which you seem to think is not allowed.
Judge not.
Seems clear to me. We can point out sin.
But we are not to judge.
Unless we want to be judged with the same measuring stick.
You can say premarital sex is a sin.
That isn't judging the person.
To say a person isn't a Christian is judging.

BS. They are the EXACT SAME THING. We ARE judged with the same measuring stick.

You want to argue for the sake of arguing.

I won't do it.

The commandment says judge not.

It's simple.

Perhaps people need to take the Bible, it's commandments, more literal instead of trying to shape them to fit their line of thinking.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I think the difference lies in denouncing the act vs denouncing the person. If I say premarital sex is bad, that is judging an act and it's ok. If I say SHE is bad, that is judging a person and it's wrong. There is a big difference in commenting on an act or on something someone did and commenting on the person as a whole. Suzy stole and stealing is wrong -- judging the act and ok. Suzy is a terrible person -- judging the person and not ok.

That's my interpretation. YMMV.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
I think the difference lies in denouncing the act vs denouncing the person. If I say premarital sex is bad, that is judging an act and it's ok. If I say SHE is bad, that is judging a person and it's wrong. There is a big difference in commenting on an act or on something someone did and commenting on the person as a whole. Suzy stole and stealing is wrong -- judging the act and ok. Suzy is a terrible person -- judging the person and not ok.

That's my interpretation. YMMV.

I agree.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I think the difference lies in denouncing the act vs denouncing the person. If I say premarital sex is bad, that is judging an act and it's ok. If I say SHE is bad, that is judging a person and it's wrong. There is a big difference in commenting on an act or on something someone did and commenting on the person as a whole. Suzy stole and stealing is wrong -- judging the act and ok. Suzy is a terrible person -- judging the person and not ok.

That's my interpretation. YMMV.
I agree.

I'm sorry...what did you say?!?!

lol

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I think the difference lies in denouncing the act vs denouncing the person. If I say premarital sex is bad, that is judging an act and it's ok. If I say SHE is bad, that is judging a person and it's wrong. There is a big difference in commenting on an act or on something someone did and commenting on the person as a whole. Suzy stole and stealing is wrong -- judging the act and ok. Suzy is a terrible person -- judging the person and not ok.

That's my interpretation. YMMV.
I agree.
I'm sorry...what did you say?!?!

lol

I said I agree. LOL!

Although I must admit, when people ACT like a bitch all the time, it's very difficult just not to believe they ARE a bitch. Sigh. It's a struggle.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I think the difference lies in denouncing the act vs denouncing the person. If I say premarital sex is bad, that is judging an act and it's ok. If I say SHE is bad, that is judging a person and it's wrong. There is a big difference in commenting on an act or on something someone did and commenting on the person as a whole. Suzy stole and stealing is wrong -- judging the act and ok. Suzy is a terrible person -- judging the person and not ok.

That's my interpretation. YMMV.
I agree.
I'm sorry...what did you say?!?!

lol
I said I agree. LOL!

Although I must admit, when people ACT like a bitch all the time, it's very difficult just not to believe they ARE a bitch. Sigh. It's a struggle.

It IS a struggle. But you can't judge what is in their heart. You don't know the struggle they have had or what the cross that they carry is like. So you should not judge.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I think the difference lies in denouncing the act vs denouncing the person. If I say premarital sex is bad, that is judging an act and it's ok. If I say SHE is bad, that is judging a person and it's wrong. There is a big difference in commenting on an act or on something someone did and commenting on the person as a whole. Suzy stole and stealing is wrong -- judging the act and ok. Suzy is a terrible person -- judging the person and not ok.

That's my interpretation. YMMV.
I agree.
I'm sorry...what did you say?!?!

lol
I said I agree. LOL!

Although I must admit, when people ACT like a bitch all the time, it's very difficult just not to believe they ARE a bitch. Sigh. It's a struggle.
It IS a struggle. But you can't judge what is in their heart. You don't know the struggle they have had or what the cross that they carry is like. So you should not judge.

I'll try harder. Except for Hillary. She's pure evil.

WYSIWYG · Guru

You are just wrong. Using your illogical twisting of those verses, no preacher could ever speak out against premarital sex, or abortion, or drunkenness, or any other sin. That is an absurd position to take.
- huskerbb

____________________________

While I don't attend Church, I disagree with that statement. It's the difference between saying the activity is against God and saying a particular person is against God. A sermon against the evils of too much drink is fine, A lecture to Joe Smith (left of the aisle, third pew, seat 7) on how evil he was last night at the bar, isn't.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I think the difference lies in denouncing the act vs denouncing the person. If I say premarital sex is bad, that is judging an act and it's ok. If I say SHE is bad, that is judging a person and it's wrong. There is a big difference in commenting on an act or on something someone did and commenting on the person as a whole. Suzy stole and stealing is wrong -- judging the act and ok. Suzy is a terrible person -- judging the person and not ok.

That's my interpretation. YMMV.
- Mellow Momma

I agree.
- Lawyerlady

______________________________

I do too.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dont we say Ted Bundy was s terrible person? Arent some described as wicked in the Bible?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Maybe they are described that way in the bible. It isn't our place to judge what's in another person's heart. That is up to God.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

New American Standard Bible
A worthless person, a wicked man, Is the one who walks with a perverse mouth,..

Proverbs 6:12

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

New American Standard Bible
A worthless person, a wicked man, Is the one who walks with a perverse mouth,..

Proverbs 6:12

That's nice. It still doesn't mean we should judge one another. You can judge the action but not the person. That's not your job as a Christian. That's God's job alone.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

"Woe to the worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May ... "What sorrow
awaits this worthless shepherd who abandons the flock!

Zechariah 11:17

WYSIWYG · Guru

Dont we say Ted Bundy was s terrible person? Arent some described as wicked in the Bible?
- Lady Gaga Snerd

_____________________________

I can say what Ted Bundy did was evil. Whether that makes him an evil person is up to God to judge.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

WYSIWYG wrote:
Dont we say Ted Bundy was s terrible person? Arent some described as wicked in the Bible?
- Lady Gaga Snerd

_____________________________

I can say what Ted Bundy did was evil. Whether that makes him an evil person is up to God to judge.

Exactly.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

When I say to the wicked, 'You wicked person, you will surely die,' and you do not
speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for ..

Ezekiel 33:8.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
Dont we say Ted Bundy was s terrible person? Arent some described as wicked in the Bible?
- Lady Gaga Snerd

_____________________________

I can say what Ted Bundy did was evil. Whether that makes him an evil person is up to God to judge.
Exactly.

No. WE can judge him as Evil.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I will say Ted Bundy was evil. And if you are being honest with yourself u will too. That isnt wrong.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Saying that a person is "evil" is a hard concept for me to grasp. I don't know why.

flan

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Has Trump ever actually claimed to be Christian? It isn't one of the things that I have heard about him.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Saying that a person is "evil" is a hard concept for me to grasp. I don't know why.

flan

Even if they torture, rape and murder a child? I think we know Evil when we see Evil. And, part of the problem with society today is that we refuse to call Evil what it is and try to couch it in nicey nice "mental illness" when it is simply just Evil.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

If you cannot pronounce something as Evil then how can you then pronounce something as Good? God created us in His Image with that knowledge. We inherantly KNOW what is Good and what is Evil. And, we are told to "judge with righteous judgment'. We are to DISCERN what is good and what is evil not to live life in a coma and not paying attention and pretending not to see.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Food for thought, LGS. Thanks.

I don't consider myself an optimist, but I guess I have an easier time accepting that an ACT is evil, rather than an entire person.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Some people have purposely turned from God and have allowed themselves to be corrupted by evil.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I really have no idea what you are attempting to argue.

I'm arguing against the notion that we are "never" supposed to point out bad behavior--sins--which IS "judging".
Ok. Neither am i.
Pointing out a sin is not the same thing as saying someone is not a Christian.

Maybe not, but it is judging--which you seem to think is not allowed.
Judge not.
Seems clear to me. We can point out sin.
But we are not to judge.
Unless we want to be judged with the same measuring stick.
You can say premarital sex is a sin.
That isn't judging the person.
To say a person isn't a Christian is judging.

BS. They are the EXACT SAME THING. We ARE judged with the same measuring stick.
You want to argue for the sake of arguing.
I won't do it.
The commandment says judge not.
It's simple.
Perhaps people need to take the Bible, it's commandments, more literal instead of trying to shape them to fit their line of thinking.

You should try it. You took a single verse completely out of context and don't even give any credence to the rest of the passage YOU quoted.

You are to remove the speck from your eye so that you can see clearly.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
I think the difference lies in denouncing the act vs denouncing the person. If I say premarital sex is bad, that is judging an act and it's ok. If I say SHE is bad, that is judging a person and it's wrong. There is a big difference in commenting on an act or on something someone did and commenting on the person as a whole. Suzy stole and stealing is wrong -- judging the act and ok. Suzy is a terrible person -- judging the person and not ok.

That's my interpretation. YMMV.

It's not about calling any person "bad" or "good". For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

However, what is a pastor to do when counseling a couple living together who wish to get married? Say it's NOT a sin? That's absurd. Yet if he says the obvious that it IS a sin, and asks if they wish to repent--that IS "judging".