TOTALLY GEEKED!

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

RE: Dear Harriette: I Don't Want to Tell People I am the Mistress

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Tinydancer wrote:
I was talking to flan but I know you like to make it all about you so...

No, I don't make it all about me. But it always sounds good to throw out that crap and accuse of of stuff. I posted on something you made a comment on. So yeah, I can post stuff too. And since I have a DH that once cheated it's MY life experience. So I guess my life isn't supposed to be about me.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

And we're into terrorism...

Tinydancer · Guru

You and flan are both whitewashing by acting like cheating is no big deal. Cheating is disapproved of for a very good reason. flan doesn't even think she did anything wrong and you're so positive you dh "changed". I can post on that as well.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Why don't you post on it? Go right ahead. But be damn careful with what you put on a public board. And I have never ever once said that cheating is right or good. It's painful and it hurts. It's wrong. People shouldn't do it.

chef · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Me, too Chef. I was cheated on. It doesn't just affect the one or two cheating.

It deeply affects everyone in the family.

The spouse being cheated on, the kids, the family that is then put in the situation of watching their loved one fall apart.

The affects are emotional, mental and physical.

It can be devastating.

Those who cheat are no better than terrorists really.

Extreme analogy? Not if you've lived through it.

I'll NEVER trust someone who has cheated.

They may change, but I'll never trust them.

I won't liken cheating to terrorism but I do agree with cheating affecting everyone in the family.

My DH was cheated on too - multiple times. It might be odd but it's one of the things we bonded over. Ironically, the last time I was cheated on, the guy who cheated on me was screwing the female DH was dating. We found that out inadvertently after being with each other for some time. His ex and I have a mutual friend. Small world!

Tinydancer · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Why don't you post on it? Go right ahead. But be damn careful with what you put on a public board. And I have never ever once said that cheating is right or good. It's painful and it hurts. It's wrong. People shouldn't do it.

I did post on it and will continue to post on it and I DON'T put personal information on a message board. Your dh cheated yet you act like he would never do that. Guess what? He's already done it.

chef · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
You and flan are both whitewashing by acting like cheating is no big deal. Cheating is disapproved of for a very good reason. flan doesn't even think she did anything wrong and you're so positive you dh "changed". I can post on that as well.

Hey. I think NJN's DH truly has changed. Alcohol does horrible things to people. I've posted with NJN for quite a long time now and she has posted quite a bit about how seriously her DH takes his sobriety. I posted with her DH for awhile when he was a member of GT. Not once did he ever say anything remotely excusing anything he's done. Frankly, it would've been easy for him to walk but he stepped up and took care of his son.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tinydancer wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Why don't you post on it? Go right ahead. But be damn careful with what you put on a public board. And I have never ever once said that cheating is right or good. It's painful and it hurts. It's wrong. People shouldn't do it.
I did post on it and will continue to post on it and I DON'T put personal information on a message board. Your dh cheated yet you act like he would never do that. Guess what? He's already done it.

Did I miss something?

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

Maybe he has. I don't know him at all but pretending that a cheater isn't more likely to cheat is just naive.

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Why don't you post on it? Go right ahead. But be damn careful with what you put on a public board. And I have never ever once said that cheating is right or good. It's painful and it hurts. It's wrong. People shouldn't do it.
I did post on it and will continue to post on it and I DON'T put personal information on a message board. Your dh cheated yet you act like he would never do that. Guess what? He's already done it.
Did I miss something?
flan

He cheated on his first wife. He's already done it.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I only posted that he cheated on his first wife. I am not her. Are you saying that he has cheated on me? Where did you get that info?

Tinydancer · Guru

Where did I say he cheated on you? I said he cheated on his first wife so he's already cheated. It's not difficult to understand.

ETA to correct punctuation so it doesn't get switched to a spelling tactic.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Tuesday 23rd of February 2016 03:27:46 PM

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
You and flan are both whitewashing by acting like cheating is no big deal. Cheating is disapproved of for a very good reason. flan doesn't even think she did anything wrong and you're so positive you dh "changed". I can post on that as well.
Hey. I think NJN's DH truly has changed. Alcohol does horrible things to people. I've posted with NJN for quite a long time now and she has posted quite a bit about how seriously her DH takes his sobriety. I posted with her DH for awhile when he was a member of GT. Not once did he ever say anything remotely excusing anything he's done. Frankly, it would've been easy for him to walk but he stepped up and took care of his son.

Thank you chef. I don't excuse his behavior but that is his past life. He has been sober going on 11 years now. Coming this April 2. To a theater near you.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Oh brother. This got personal fast.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tinydancer wrote:
Where did I say he cheated on you. I said he cheated on his first wife so he's already cheated. It's not difficult to understand.

You IMPLIED it.

flan

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Tinydancer wrote:
Where did I say he cheated on you. I said he cheated on his first wife so he's already cheated. It's not difficult to understand.

And I said people CAN change. Not all. Sometimes they stay idiots and a$$holes.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Mellow Momma wrote:
Oh brother. This got personal fast.

It always does. People have to take the cheapest pot shot they can.

chef · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
You and flan are both whitewashing by acting like cheating is no big deal. Cheating is disapproved of for a very good reason. flan doesn't even think she did anything wrong and you're so positive you dh "changed". I can post on that as well.
Hey. I think NJN's DH truly has changed. Alcohol does horrible things to people. I've posted with NJN for quite a long time now and she has posted quite a bit about how seriously her DH takes his sobriety. I posted with her DH for awhile when he was a member of GT. Not once did he ever say anything remotely excusing anything he's done. Frankly, it would've been easy for him to walk but he stepped up and took care of his son.
Thank you chef. I don't excuse his behavior but that is his past life. He has been sober going on 11 years now. Coming this April 2. To a theater near you.

That's awesome!

And, would that be a drive-in or regular theater?

Does he celebrate his sober-versary? I hadn't heard of it until a friend of a friend mentioned celebrating his.

Ohfour · Hooker

chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
You and flan are both whitewashing by acting like cheating is no big deal. Cheating is disapproved of for a very good reason. flan doesn't even think she did anything wrong and you're so positive you dh "changed". I can post on that as well.
Hey. I think NJN's DH truly has changed. Alcohol does horrible things to people. I've posted with NJN for quite a long time now and she has posted quite a bit about how seriously her DH takes his sobriety. I posted with her DH for awhile when he was a member of GT. Not once did he ever say anything remotely excusing anything he's done. Frankly, it would've been easy for him to walk but he stepped up and took care of his son.

Im going to have to step in here. I am probably one of the few, if any that has met and spent time with NJNs husband. He is a GEM. Hes open about his past, and what he has been through would give some of us nightmares. Yet he fought his demons (still fights them i believe) and truly worships the ground NJN walks on. I have the gift (or the curse) of discernment and NOTHING, not one thing, even fluttered my internal "red flag". Hes a different person than he was when he was drinking, and he takes it to heart. Ive seen it first hand, over many days.

Just wanted to put my .02 worth in since we can all become disillusioned by the ones we love, but NJN speaks the truth...

Tinydancer · Guru

I implied nothing. He cheated. He may have changed but my point was that cheaters are more likely to cheat again. Pretending otherwise is just stupid.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

chef wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
You and flan are both whitewashing by acting like cheating is no big deal. Cheating is disapproved of for a very good reason. flan doesn't even think she did anything wrong and you're so positive you dh "changed". I can post on that as well.
Hey. I think NJN's DH truly has changed. Alcohol does horrible things to people. I've posted with NJN for quite a long time now and she has posted quite a bit about how seriously her DH takes his sobriety. I posted with her DH for awhile when he was a member of GT. Not once did he ever say anything remotely excusing anything he's done. Frankly, it would've been easy for him to walk but he stepped up and took care of his son.
Thank you chef. I don't excuse his behavior but that is his past life. He has been sober going on 11 years now. Coming this April 2. To a theater near you.
That's awesome!
And, would that be a drive-in or regular theater?
Does he celebrate his sober-versary? I hadn't heard of it until a friend of a friend mentioned celebrating his.

He does the same thing every year. He gets up and says, "Do you know what today is?" And I say, "You're 11th year of sobriety." And he says, "Hey let's celebrate. Let's go out and get a drink!"

And it's a drive in theater. They're more fun.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Oh brother. This got personal fast.
It always does. People have to take the cheapest pot shot they can.

And revel in their moral superiority.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Like I said way up thread, it's the ones that show no shame in how they met, if they met because they were cheating, that is shameful.

I also said that some change.

But I won't trust any of them.

When I said those that cheat are no better than terrorists, it's because of the complete carnage they leave behind.

The affects are often life altering.

huskerbb · Guru

I guess I don't know what is meant by "whitewashing" cheating.

The bell can't be unrung. Is NJN supposed to divorce her husband because he cheated on his first wife? I guess I don't get what anyone thinks these people or their spouses should do at this point.

Yes, infidelity is bad. For many, outside of a loved one getting hurt or sick, it might be their worst nightmare.

But once it is done, then what? Well, like every other wrong anyone does, they make amends for it as best they can to those truly owed it. Sometimes nothing is enough and relationships end, and that is a consequence in and of itself.

To everyone else, except maybe children whom I would hope they don't want to repeat the behavior, they owe nothing.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Like I said way up thread, it's the ones that show no shame in how they met, if they met because they were cheating, that is shameful.

I also said that some change.

But I won't trust any of them.

When I said those that cheat are no better than terrorists, it's because of the complete carnage they leave behind.

The affects are often life altering.

Ok, it's shameful. Now what?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Ohfour wrote:
chef wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
You and flan are both whitewashing by acting like cheating is no big deal. Cheating is disapproved of for a very good reason. flan doesn't even think she did anything wrong and you're so positive you dh "changed". I can post on that as well.
Hey. I think NJN's DH truly has changed. Alcohol does horrible things to people. I've posted with NJN for quite a long time now and she has posted quite a bit about how seriously her DH takes his sobriety. I posted with her DH for awhile when he was a member of GT. Not once did he ever say anything remotely excusing anything he's done. Frankly, it would've been easy for him to walk but he stepped up and took care of his son.
Im going to have to step in here. I am probably one of the few, if any that has met and spent time with NJNs husband. He is a GEM. Hes open about his past, and what he has been through would give some of us nightmares. Yet he fought his demons (still fights them i believe) and truly worships the ground NJN walks on. I have the gift (or the curse) of discernment and NOTHING, not one thing, even fluttered my internal "red flag". Hes a different person than he was when he was drinking, and he takes it to heart. Ive seen it first hand, over many days.
Just wanted to put my .02 worth in since we can all become disillusioned by the ones we love, but NJN speaks the truth...

Thank you ohfour. He is not perfect. He has made mistakes. Even in our marriage. But neither am I perfect. We have navigated some very rough waters together. He has stood beside me during some very very unpleasant times in my life. Times I thought I would never get through. And yet, he doesn't complain.

I'd also like to say that many couple overcome affairs. It's very easy to think in black and white and know just what YOU would do if faced with the situation. It's not as clear if you are IN the situation. Everyone likes to say once a cheater always a cheater. If you were in a 20+ year marriage to a person who was good in every way but got drunk and had an affair would you throw it all away? Most people, if they are honest, will say no. Of course, there are many factors to consider too.

So I'm sorry if I just can't fall into the "Everyone who cheats is a horrible person." mantra. I just don't see it like that. Do I condone it? NO. Is it wrong? YES. Should people do it? NO. So don't think I'm being easy on cheaters. I just don't see the world in black and white.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

huskerbb wrote:
I guess I don't know what is meant by "whitewashing" cheating.

The bell can't be unrung. Is NJN supposed to divorce her husband because he cheated on his first wife? I guess I don't get what anyone thinks these people or their spouses should do at this point.

Yes, infidelity is bad. For many, outside of a loved one getting hurt or sick, it might be their worst nightmare.

But once it is done, then what? Well, like every other wrong anyone does, they make amends for it as best they can to those truly owed it. Sometimes nothing is enough and relationships end, and that is a consequence in and of itself.

To everyone else, except maybe children whom I would hope they don't want to repeat the behavior, they owe nothing.

Some people do want to salvage their marriages. If you have kids you may want to try to keep the marriage intact. We talk about how divorce affects the children all the time but then rush to tell people to leave. Some people can make amends and move on. Some cannot.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
I guess I don't know what is meant by "whitewashing" cheating.

The bell can't be unrung. Is NJN supposed to divorce her husband because he cheated on his first wife? I guess I don't get what anyone thinks these people or their spouses should do at this point.

Yes, infidelity is bad. For many, outside of a loved one getting hurt or sick, it might be their worst nightmare.

But once it is done, then what? Well, like every other wrong anyone does, they make amends for it as best they can to those truly owed it. Sometimes nothing is enough and relationships end, and that is a consequence in and of itself.

To everyone else, except maybe children whom I would hope they don't want to repeat the behavior, they owe nothing.

Thank you. Every situation is different.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I guess I don't know what is meant by "whitewashing" cheating.

The bell can't be unrung. Is NJN supposed to divorce her husband because he cheated on his first wife? I guess I don't get what anyone thinks these people or their spouses should do at this point.

Yes, infidelity is bad. For many, outside of a loved one getting hurt or sick, it might be their worst nightmare.

But once it is done, then what? Well, like every other wrong anyone does, they make amends for it as best they can to those truly owed it. Sometimes nothing is enough and relationships end, and that is a consequence in and of itself.

To everyone else, except maybe children whom I would hope they don't want to repeat the behavior, they owe nothing.
Some people do want to salvage their marriages. If you have kids you may want to try to keep the marriage intact. We talk about how divorce affects the children all the time but then rush to tell people to leave. Some people can make amends and move on. Some cannot.

The fact is, that even after cheating, most marriages do survive. It depends on a lot of factors. Children, for sure, but also if it was a one time thing or an ongoing affair, is the cheater truly remorseful and committed to proving they can again be trusted, etc...

Tinydancer · Guru

This was a general discussion about cheaters and had nothing to do with any specific person or persons until they made it about them. I stand by my statement that cheaters are more likely to cheat again. I DID NOT say ALL cheaters will cheat again.

huskerbb · Guru

They probably are.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

My ex cheated a second time. Five years after the first time.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Oh brother. This got personal fast.
It always does. People have to take the cheapest pot shot they can.
And revel in their moral superiority.
flan

No, the two of you MAKE it personal. This was a discussion in general and because of your personal experiences you have to come in and argue about it and make it about you. It is not - it is about cheaters in general. If you don't want it to get personal, stop making it about you.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Riiiight...

We ALL add our personal experiences to threads...ALL the time.

husker knows farming, welts is a nurse, etc.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Riiiight...

We ALL add our personal experiences to threads...ALL the time.

husker knows farming, welts is a nurse, etc.

flan

Just because you seem to think you are a personal expert on adultery doesn't mean anyone has to agree with your opinion on it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Riiiight...

We ALL add our personal experiences to threads...ALL the time.

husker knows farming, welts is a nurse, etc.

flan
Just because you seem to think you are a personal expert on adultery doesn't mean anyone has to agree with your opinion on it.

I don't expect ANYONE to agree. They haven't lived MY life.

You've known me long enough to know that I hate cliches, and disagree with many of them.

flan

weltschmerz · Guru

chef wrote:
flan327 wrote:
chef wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
My answer would have been: Maybe if you don't want to tell people you were the Mistress, you shouldn't have been the Mistress.

But I do agree with the premise of Lady Gaga Snerd's first post. Keep it simple. Be honest but just don't volunteer any information they don't really need to know.
Amen!
Keep your paws off other people's spouses, people!
I don't understand why anyone would marry someone they know is a cheater. If he/she cheated on their spouse/SO, do you really think they're going to be faithful to you? They've already proven that vows and fidelity mean zilch to them.
Yes, because, as much as people would like to believe the cliche, all cheaters are NOT the same.
flan
Your point?
There's no cliche. If someone so glibly disregards their vows, they're not going to magically change. Remember, they once pledged undying loyalty to someone else too. They probably even told her/him that they would never cheat on her/him. Also, intent means a lot. Intentionally cheating on someone is disgusting. Intentionally being with someone you know is married or taken is worse. I can understand alcohol or drugs getting in the way of good judgement. I can understand making a bad judgement call once. I cannot understand willfully and continually stepping out on the one you claim you love. Break up with them/divorce them and let them move on rather than continuing to think their spouse/SO is truly theirs.
And y'know what? I've been cheated on. Three times. It HURTS. In one case, the other woman was someone I considered a friend. I now know she was a worthless waste of oxygen disguised as human. And yes, that's harsh. I don't care. I can give a pass to mistresses/male-stresses (I don't know what the male equivalent would be) who truly don't know that their sex buddy is taken. I cannot and will not give a pass to those who do know and do it anyway.
This is a subject near and dear to me, Flan. You will not change my opinion on this. You will never get me to approve of cheating. I've seen and experienced so much hurt caused by infidelity that I will speak out on it. Likewise, I know there is nothing I can say that will get you to change your opinion on cheating.

How is it WORSE? The mistress or girlfriend never walked down the aisle and swore before God to forsake all others. The mistress isn't breaking any vows.

The mistress didn't promise for better or worse, until death do us part. The mistress never made any promises.

She doesn't owe anybody anything.

Now, it's certainly not nice, but worse than the cheater? I don't think so.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Riiiight...

We ALL add our personal experiences to threads...ALL the time.

husker knows farming, welts is a nurse, etc.

flan
Just because you seem to think you are a personal expert on adultery doesn't mean anyone has to agree with your opinion on it.
I don't expect ANYONE to agree. They haven't lived MY life.
You've known me long enough to know that I hate cliches, and disagree with many of them.
flan

And others disagree with you. So get over taking it personally whenever people discuss adultery. Just because you think differently doesn't mean anyone else has to.

And FYI - cliches are a cliche for a reason.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Riiiight...

We ALL add our personal experiences to threads...ALL the time.

husker knows farming, welts is a nurse, etc.

flan
Just because you seem to think you are a personal expert on adultery doesn't mean anyone has to agree with your opinion on it.
I don't expect ANYONE to agree. They haven't lived MY life.
You've known me long enough to know that I hate cliches, and disagree with many of them.
flan
And others disagree with you. So get over taking it personally whenever people discuss adultery. Just because you think differently doesn't mean anyone else has to.

And FYI - cliches are a cliche for a reason.

Or...?

flan

p.s. Cliches are an attempt to impose order in a world that's NOT Black & White.

-- Edited by flan327 on Tuesday 23rd of February 2016 05:23:35 PM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Riiiight...

We ALL add our personal experiences to threads...ALL the time.

husker knows farming, welts is a nurse, etc.

flan
Just because you seem to think you are a personal expert on adultery doesn't mean anyone has to agree with your opinion on it.
I don't expect ANYONE to agree. They haven't lived MY life.
You've known me long enough to know that I hate cliches, and disagree with many of them.
flan
And others disagree with you. So get over taking it personally whenever people discuss adultery. Just because you think differently doesn't mean anyone else has to.

And FYI - cliches are a cliche for a reason.
Or...?
flan
p.s. Cliches are an attempt to make order in a world that's NOT Black & White.

Adultery is WRONG. That's as black and white as it gets. You can try to justify it all day long, but it is still WRONG.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

My postscript applied to cliches in general.

You think what I did was wrong? How can I carry on?

flan

huskerbb · Guru

I would hope it's pretty universal that cheating is wrong. Would you want your husband to do it now?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
My postscript applied to cliches in general.

You think what I did was wrong? How can I carry on?

flan

As I said, cliches are cliches for a reason - and adultery is as black and white as it gets.

What I don't understand is, why on earth do you even comment on adultery threads? You know how most people feel about adultery. What - you LIKE pretending to be a victim over people's attitudes towards it? Knowing someone who committed adultery doesn't mean anyone's opinion on it has to change, or even be tempered. If you are so damn sure what you did was ok and you don't care what people think - stop taking it so personally.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
I would hope it's pretty universal that cheating is wrong. Would you want your husband to do it now?

I'm sorry. I am not allowed to answer that because apparently I make things about ME... evileye

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I would hope it's pretty universal that cheating is wrong. Would you want your husband to do it now?
I'm sorry. I am not allowed to answer that because apparently I make things about ME...
flan

Like you ever answer direct questions, anyway.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I would hope it's pretty universal that cheating is wrong. Would you want your husband to do it now?
I'm sorry. I am not allowed to answer that because apparently I make things about ME...
flan
Like you ever answer direct questions, anyway.

I have never answered a single question here. I've never given recommendations for children's books or discussed my feelings about God or my childhood.

And I don't feel comfortable answering NOW because of certain posters.

husker, I'll be glad to PM you if you really care.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

It's not that complicated. It's either wrong or its not.

It's not "right" just because you did it or want to in one situation, and suddenly "wrong" because the situation changes.

This issue is black and white.

The issue is not the rightness or wrongness of the cheating. The issue is how it is handled after it happens.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

My issue with the OP is that she is feeling guilty and projecting animosity onto her friend. It is COMPLETELY normal to ask new friends how they met their spouse, etc. and she feels she is being given the 3rd degree b/c she feels guilty. That's not the friend's fault.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
It's not that complicated. It's either wrong or its not.

It's not "right" just because you did it or want to in one situation, and suddenly "wrong" because the situation changes.

This issue is black and white.

The issue is not the rightness or wrongness of the cheating. The issue is how it is handled after it happens.

And I respect your opinion.

flan