TOTALLY GEEKED!

That article is only available through Slate Plus.

Speaking of Slate Plus - why would anyone pay to read that drivel early?

Oh wait - is it this one or the drunken MIL one?




Q. Colleagues who drink—a lot.: I recently got a position at a company that apparently still has 1960s Mad Men relationship with alcohol. I belong to a nondrinking church. I had always thought it wrong to bring religion to work. Therefore, at the first office “Friday Bash” I simply declined to drink, thinking that it would be no big deal in this health-conscious day and age. I was then set upon by people trying to force drinks upon me. I was eventually rescued by a co-worker, who came over and said she couldn’t drink either on account of a medication interaction. (What she doesn’t know is that they call her “the nutcase on medication” behind her back. And it’s just the excuse she came up with to get them off her back.) At the following “Friday Bash” I again declined to drink and, when pressed, I finally said, pleasantly and nonjudgmentally, “My church doesn’t allow it.” I then got called in and told not to bring “religion” to work. I just don’t want to drink, and I want to be left in peace. I know, legally, I have that right. What should I do? It is too soon to job-jump as my minister has suggested?

A: I can understand why hearing “my church doesn’t allow me to drink” might have startled some of your co-workers, but I absolutely cannot understand why it is so difficult for some people to hear “No thanks, I don’t drink,” as “No thanks, I don’t drink.” There’s no reason to demand a justification when someone says “No thanks” about food or drink, especially at work. “No thanks” stands on its own. If you feel comfortable following up with your boss, tell them that while you’re not interested in pushing your religion on anyone, you felt repeatedly pressured by your new colleagues to furnish an excuse for not drinking, and you’d prefer that in the future, you not have drinks forced into your hand by your co-workers. (An eminently reasonable request from an employee!) It sounds like this is the kind of office that knows how to make work confusing and unpleasant for anyone who doesn’t fit in with the frat-house vibe; I don’t think it’s too soon for you to start looking for a job somewhere else.

weltschmerz wrote:

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Just say "I have 10 years of sobriety" and leave it at that. They don't have to know why and won't press drinks on you.

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Why lie?  Why can't he tell the truth (even under pressure) without causing an issue? 

And when did it become against the rules to mention religion? Employers are required to provide reasonable accommodation for religion - not tell employees to shut up about it.

THIS kind of thing is what gets people up in arms about their religious rights.

flan327 wrote:

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weltschmerz wrote:

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Just say "I have 10 years of sobriety" and leave it at that. They don't have to know why and won't press drinks on you.

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 Is this a nasty comment?

flan

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 Really?  

But she is telling people to lie rather than talk about religion.  Why is that necessary?

The truth is really hard for people to understand apparently and it shouldn't be.

weltschmerz wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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weltschmerz wrote:

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Just say "I have 10 years of sobriety" and leave it at that. They don't have to know why and won't press drinks on you.

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Why lie?  Why can't he tell the truth (even under pressure) without causing an issue? 

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Because if you read the letter, it DOES cause an issue. 

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So the truth is an issue?

What a bunch of nut jobs. 

weltschmerz wrote:

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*I have ten years of sobriety* is not a lie. Sobriety can be due to not being able to drink any more, or not drinking due to belonging to a religion that discourages it.

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In the general population, "I have ten years of sobriety" leads one to think the individual is a recovering alcoholic. Yeah, that would not fly well for me. 

Lawyerlady wrote:

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weltschmerz wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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weltschmerz wrote:

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Just say "I have 10 years of sobriety" and leave it at that. They don't have to know why and won't press drinks on you.

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Why lie?  Why can't he tell the truth (even under pressure) without causing an issue? 

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Because if you read the letter, it DOES cause an issue. 

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 And it should not.  The employer is in the wrong.

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 This whole scenario seems like a lawsuit ready to happen.  The employer could get in trouble for forcing alcohol on people and religious discrimination

I'm a little confused, are these Friday Bashes happening at the office? Or after work at a bar?

If it's at work: they shouldn't be drinking at the office.

If it's at a bar: it's not bringing religion to work

Either way, the employer is in the wrong

A: I can understand why hearing “my church doesn’t allow me to drink” might have startled some of your co-workers, but I absolutely cannot understand why it is so difficult for some people to hear “No thanks, I don’t drink,” as “No thanks, I don’t drink.”


I'm also trying to figure out why "my church doesn't allow me to drink" would STARTLE people.

Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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A: I can understand why hearing “my church doesn’t allow me to drink” might have startled some of your co-workers, but I absolutely cannot understand why it is so difficult for some people to hear “No thanks, I don’t drink,” as “No thanks, I don’t drink.”


I'm also trying to figure out why "my church doesn't allow me to drink" would STARTLE people.

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 I might be taken aback a bit as no one has ever said that to me before. But I wouldn't be startled, nor would I be upset that they said it. And I think it's a totally appropriate thing to say at work too. Surprised? Lol 

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Monday 21st of March 2016 08:53:43 PM

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 Nah.  I've never considered you unreasonable. 

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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A: I can understand why hearing “my church doesn’t allow me to drink” might have startled some of your co-workers, but I absolutely cannot understand why it is so difficult for some people to hear “No thanks, I don’t drink,” as “No thanks, I don’t drink.”


I'm also trying to figure out why "my church doesn't allow me to drink" would STARTLE people.

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 I might be taken aback a bit as no one has ever said that to me before. But I wouldn't be startled, nor would I be upset that they said it. And I think it's a totally appropriate thing to say at work too. Surprised? Lol 

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Monday 21st of March 2016 08:53:43 PM

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 Nah.  I've never considered you unreasonable. 

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 Wow. I am gobsmacked. I thought I was an idiot liberal. 😜

Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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A: I can understand why hearing “my church doesn’t allow me to drink” might have startled some of your co-workers, but I absolutely cannot understand why it is so difficult for some people to hear “No thanks, I don’t drink,” as “No thanks, I don’t drink.”


I'm also trying to figure out why "my church doesn't allow me to drink" would STARTLE people.

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 I might be taken aback a bit as no one has ever said that to me before. But I wouldn't be startled, nor would I be upset that they said it. And I think it's a totally appropriate thing to say at work too. Surprised? Lol 

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Monday 21st of March 2016 08:53:43 PM

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 Nah.  I've never considered you unreasonable. 

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 Wow. I am gobsmacked. I thought I was an idiot liberal. 😜

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There are liberals, and then there are idiot liberals.  There are degrees.  Some are reasonable, some are not.  Kind of like all different groups of people.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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A: I can understand why hearing “my church doesn’t allow me to drink” might have startled some of your co-workers, but I absolutely cannot understand why it is so difficult for some people to hear “No thanks, I don’t drink,” as “No thanks, I don’t drink.”


I'm also trying to figure out why "my church doesn't allow me to drink" would STARTLE people.

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 I might be taken aback a bit as no one has ever said that to me before. But I wouldn't be startled, nor would I be upset that they said it. And I think it's a totally appropriate thing to say at work too. Surprised? Lol 

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Monday 21st of March 2016 08:53:43 PM

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 Nah.  I've never considered you unreasonable. 

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 Wow. I am gobsmacked. I thought I was an idiot liberal. 😜

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There are liberals, and then there are idiot liberals.  There are degrees.  Some are reasonable, some are not.  Kind of like all different groups of people.

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 I totally get that. It just isn't said much around here. Phrases like "all liberals" get tossed around an awful lot. And "liberals want xxx" when not all liberals want the same thing at all. Thanks for reminding everyone of that!! 

Mellow Momma wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Bonny22Pye wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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weltschmerz wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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weltschmerz wrote:

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Just say "I have 10 years of sobriety" and leave it at that. They don't have to know why and won't press drinks on you.

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Why lie?  Why can't he tell the truth (even under pressure) without causing an issue? 

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Because if you read the letter, it DOES cause an issue. 

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 And it should not.  The employer is in the wrong.

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 This whole scenario seems like a lawsuit ready to happen.  The employer could get in trouble for forcing alcohol on people and religious discrimination

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 It isn't necessarily the employer--but the co-workers.

I don't think she will ever fit in at this company.  She is always going to be perceived as the religious nut.  Right, wrong, or indifferent--that is the reality. 

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 If it happens at work and the management knows about it - then it IS the employer. If management doesn't stop it, then they sanction it. 

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 Stop what? The drinking?  Calling her the religious nut behind her back?  

On the first count--they don't have to do that.

On the second--they don't have the ability to do so.

The pressuring people to drink at work, Husker. And they shouldn't be drinking at work! That's just stupid! It's a liability nightmare just waiting to happen!

Lawyerlady wrote:

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The pressuring people to drink at work, Husker. And they shouldn't be drinking at work! That's just stupid! It's a liability nightmare just waiting to happen!

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 That's not her call to make--and it's not illegal.  

 

They shouldn't be pressuring her--but that's why I think she will never fit in.  

huskerbb wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Now, getting "called in" was over the line--but even if that doesn't happen, again, she still isn't going to ever fit in and I don't think it's ever going to be a comfortable place for her to work.

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 So, people should have to hide their religion or find a new job?  If they make it a hostile working environment because of her religion, that's called discrimination, and the employer IS liable for that.

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 We had a thread not that long ago where an employer refused to allow Muslim workers to pray--and everyone was cheering, you included.  

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 It was not "cheering".  And that was different, it was about reasonable accommodation.  Letting a worker be bullied at work for religion is a COMPLETELY different issue.

huskerbb wrote:

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Yeah, it was cheering. It was very similar. Religion at work.

However, I'm not even saying she is wrong--I'm just saying it's never going to be very fun for her to work there.

Let's say they shut down the drinking--then what? All her co-workers are going to be like "well, she's awesome because she got our after work beer drinking shut down".

Do you really think THAT would make a better environment for her?

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 They are VASTLY different issues in the law.  One is about what lengths an employer must go to to accommodate a person's religion when it disrupts the work, and the other is about a hostile working environment.

 

The employer is stupid for allowing them to drink at work in the first place.  But if he doesn't want to stop it, he doesn't have to, but he should remind them not to harass employees who say "no, thank you", that there are numerous reasons people don't drink and they shouldn't be bugged about it for any reason.  The workplace is not a frat party.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Yeah, it was cheering. It was very similar. Religion at work.

However, I'm not even saying she is wrong--I'm just saying it's never going to be very fun for her to work there.

Let's say they shut down the drinking--then what? All her co-workers are going to be like "well, she's awesome because she got our after work beer drinking shut down".

Do you really think THAT would make a better environment for her?

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 They are VASTLY different issues in the law.  One is about what lengths an employer must go to to accommodate a person's religion when it disrupts the work, and the other is about a hostile working environment.

 

The employer is stupid for allowing them to drink at work in the first place.  But if he doesn't want to stop it, he doesn't have to, but he should remind them not to harass employees who say "no, thank you", that there are numerous reasons people don't drink and they shouldn't be bugged about it for any reason.  The workplace is not a frat party.

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 Fine.  The employer can "remind" them all they want--but that won't make the environment any better, especially if the drinking shuts down.  The environment will be hostile no matter what.  They may not bug her about the drinking, but they will do a hundred other things that makes her work life miserable.  

just Czech wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Bonny22Pye wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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weltschmerz wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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weltschmerz wrote:

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Just say "I have 10 years of sobriety" and leave it at that. They don't have to know why and won't press drinks on you.

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Why lie?  Why can't he tell the truth (even under pressure) without causing an issue? 

---

Because if you read the letter, it DOES cause an issue. 

---

 And it should not.  The employer is in the wrong.

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 This whole scenario seems like a lawsuit ready to happen.  The employer could get in trouble for forcing alcohol on people and religious discrimination

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 It isn't necessarily the employer--but the co-workers.

I don't think she will ever fit in at this company.  She is always going to be perceived as the religious nut.  Right, wrong, or indifferent--that is the reality. 

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 If it happens at work and the management knows about it - then it IS the employer. If management doesn't stop it, then they sanction it. 

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 I have to agree with this. If they are not against it, then they sanction it.

Sound familiar? LOL

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 They do sanction it.  Duh.  They even called her in to tell her to keep her religion at home.  

THEN the employee's would be a bunch of arseholes.

Well, I guess they are already so that wouldn't really change. 

I have to agree, arseholes never do change.