TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

The Decline in Religion Comes Home

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Morality based on your own personal feelings is too fluid. It changes as you do.
Except when it doesn't.
It goes deeper than "feelings." When I'm having a bad day, I don't suddenly decide it's okay to steal.
flan

But it doesn't matter what YOU decide. what you are saying is that it's ok for everyone to decide for themselves, and some people do think stealing is ok.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I mean, i wouldn't go join the local Dem party to sit around and rah rah Dem candidates I don't like. Why would I?

-- Edited by Lady Gaga Snerd on Tuesday 29th of March 2016 12:23:51 PM

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Morality based on your own personal feelings is too fluid. It changes as you do.
Except when it doesn't.
It goes deeper than "feelings." When I'm having a bad day, I don't suddenly decide it's okay to steal.
flan
But it doesn't matter what YOU decide. what you are saying is that it's ok for everyone to decide for themselves, and some people do think stealing is ok.

And, if everyone gets to decide and there is no higher standard, then what ISIS is doing is equally as VALID.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Morality based on your own personal feelings is too fluid. It changes as you do.
Except when it doesn't.
It goes deeper than "feelings." When I'm having a bad day, I don't suddenly decide it's okay to steal.
flan
But it doesn't matter what YOU decide. what you are saying is that it's ok for everyone to decide for themselves, and some people do think stealing is ok.
And, if everyone gets to decide and there is no higher standard, then what ISIS is doing is equally as VALID.

Yep. If people get to set morality, then each society gets to determine what is right and just, and ISIS has declared their actions to be just. Why is it not just because we disagree?

Mary Zombie · Guru

I often wonder why some non religious people seem so threatened by religious? If you think it's BS what's to fear? The general you. I'm a fallen Catholic I suppose but still a believer.
Makes no sense to me.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Nobody said that it was or wasn't. Of course atheists can be moral as well. Man is created in the Image of God and the laws of God are written on the heart of man. People have an inherent sense of what is right and wrong. So, we all can and often do act in moral ways. And, even those who are evil are not necessarily even as evil as they could possibly be.

As for immoral Christians, yes, we have that too. We are all capable of sinning. We are all in fact, sinners. So, yes. Christians seek church knowing that they are sinners and in need of the Savior. So, not sure what your point is?
- Lady Gaga Snerd

_________________________________

My point was this: Christians don't have an exclusive on morality, and non-Christians don't have an exclusive on immorality.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Man is created in the Image of God and God's laws are written upon our heart. So, yes, most people know that it isn't 'right" to rape a baby. However, we all tend to go towards are own ways. And, yes you can be acting outrightly moral but have craven immorality in your own heart and mind. And, the standard of God isn't only the outward but the inward heart and mind and we need to understand God's teachings to find the higher path.
- Lady Gaga Snerd.

________________________________

That's not true. The higher path towards morality can be found without finding God. As you said in an earlier post, right and wrong is written on our hearts. We already know good from bad. Whether we find God or not can be immaterial to that knowledge. Moral Atheists are moral without finding God. That was also kind of my point.

WYSIWYG · Guru

How does the atheist 'know them to be RIGHT"? Obviously in order for something to be right, there has to be a higher and objective measure. You know, God the Moral Lawgiver. Doh!
- Lady Gaga Snerd

_________________________________

How do they know? I'd imagine by putting it to the following test: "Does it injure or otherwise take away anything from any other person?".

All my beliefs about God's love and what is moral fit into that same question, basically. My test is "Why does God dislike it?". In just about every case the answer comes back as "because it causes harm".

Why can't theirs fit into a variation of that question too?

WYSIWYG · Guru

I often wonder why some non religious people seem so threatened by religious? If you think it's BS what's to fear? The general you. I'm a fallen Catholic I suppose but still a believer.
Makes no sense to me.
- Mary Zombie

__________________________

I could be wrong, but I believe that the non-religious are threatened by the religious only when the religious want to make laws that put their beliefs in force and will make the non-believers follow their beliefs (I'm not one of those type of believers, that's why I use "their", I believe Christian beliefs and values should only be applied to Christians). If the religious keep to ourselves and apply our beliefs only to fellow believers, I believe that the non-religious would not feel threatened.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Mary Zombie wrote:
I often wonder why some non religious people seem so threatened by religious? If you think it's BS what's to fear? The general you. I'm a fallen Catholic I suppose but still a believer.
Makes no sense to me.

Because evil can not stand to be in the presence of God.

God is the Light and Light disperses darkness.

So those who have been deceived by Lucifer react badly to those who shine God's light.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Oh the religious. Like trying to make your daughter share a locker room with a wannabe girl. Or forcing a private business owner to bake a cake .

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Oh the religious. Like trying to make your daughter share a locker room with a wannabe girl. Or forcing a private business owner to bake a cake .

Let them eat cake!

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
People are welcome always. But, why would you join something that involves something you don't believe in? I don't get that. And frankly, we attended our church for almost 8 years without "joining" and becoming a member. The only difference is getting to vote on church decisions like hiring, electing deacons and amending by-laws, and such.

I forgot to answer this yesterday.

The Meeting I attend is a good fit for me. It's small. I'm not a "joiner" (unlike DH), so frankly it was a bit surprising to find out that I enjoyed attending. It starts my week off right. It gives me time to reflect. Both pastors are amazing people & I have heard many Messages that moved & challenged me.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
People are welcome always. But, why would you join something that involves something you don't believe in? I don't get that. And frankly, we attended our church for almost 8 years without "joining" and becoming a member. The only difference is getting to vote on church decisions like hiring, electing deacons and amending by-laws, and such.
I forgot to answer this yesterday.
The Meeting I attend is a good fit for me. It's small. I'm not a "joiner" (unlike DH), so frankly it was a bit surprising to find out that I enjoyed attending. It starts my week off right. It gives me time to reflect. Both pastors are amazing people & I have heard many Messages that moved & challenged me.
flan

Attending is not the same as becoming a member. In church, you are always welcomed to attend, but you don't become of member of God's church unless you believe in him.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
People are welcome always. But, why would you join something that involves something you don't believe in? I don't get that. And frankly, we attended our church for almost 8 years without "joining" and becoming a member. The only difference is getting to vote on church decisions like hiring, electing deacons and amending by-laws, and such.
I forgot to answer this yesterday.
The Meeting I attend is a good fit for me. It's small. I'm not a "joiner" (unlike DH), so frankly it was a bit surprising to find out that I enjoyed attending. It starts my week off right. It gives me time to reflect. Both pastors are amazing people & I have heard many Messages that moved & challenged me.
flan
Attending is not the same as becoming a member. In church, you are always welcomed to attend, but you don't become of member of God's church unless you believe in him.

Yes, I understand that. I had been asked on this thread WHY I attended and/or identified with Quakers.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
People are welcome always. But, why would you join something that involves something you don't believe in? I don't get that. And frankly, we attended our church for almost 8 years without "joining" and becoming a member. The only difference is getting to vote on church decisions like hiring, electing deacons and amending by-laws, and such.
I forgot to answer this yesterday.
The Meeting I attend is a good fit for me. It's small. I'm not a "joiner" (unlike DH), so frankly it was a bit surprising to find out that I enjoyed attending. It starts my week off right. It gives me time to reflect. Both pastors are amazing people & I have heard many Messages that moved & challenged me.
flan
Attending is not the same as becoming a member. In church, you are always welcomed to attend, but you don't become of member of God's church unless you believe in him.
Yes, I understand that. I had been asked on this thread WHY I attended and/or identified with Quakers.
flan

That was not my question to you, though. You made the comment that churches require you to believe to join as a member. I want to know why you think that is bad?

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
How does the atheist 'know them to be RIGHT"? Obviously in order for something to be right, there has to be a higher and objective measure. You know, God the Moral Lawgiver. Doh!
- Lady Gaga Snerd

_________________________________

How do they know? I'd imagine by putting it to the following test: "Does it injure or otherwise take away anything from any other person?".

All my beliefs about God's love and what is moral fit into that same question, basically. My test is "Why does God dislike it?". In just about every case the answer comes back as "because it causes harm".

Why can't theirs fit into a variation of that question too?

BS. Obviously, they don't all do that. SOME do, but when you advocate a system where everyone can set their own morals, then many will do just that, and use whatever criteria they want to, which may not include any provision to not hurt others.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

So you cant find that company without pretending to believe something u dont?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
So you cant find that company without pretending to believe something u dont?

Nobody should have to pretend, and they should still be welcome if they don't believe. But to become a member of the body of God's church - you need to believe.

huskerbb · Guru

If you become a member, you are publicly confessing that you believe what that faith teaches. It should not be taken lightly.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I've known people who attend the church their whole life and never officially join.

I have known people who join after just a couple visits and then never come back.

Joining is great but what really matters is that person's heart and their walk with God.

Church is not just for the forgiven.

I think some people treat church like a social club.

But those messages should be talking to each individual's heart.

To some, it's about salvation. To others, the same could be a call to a work in the service of God. To another, it could be a reminder that they are not alone in what ever is going on in their lives.

The longer you have been in the scriptures, the longer your walk, the meatier the message.

If someone goes to find peace, do you NOT think God is showing that person something?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
So you cant find that company without pretending to believe something u dont?
Nobody should have to pretend, and they should still be welcome if they don't believe. But to become a member of the body of God's church - you need to believe.

I'm not pretending anything.

flan

Cheerios4606 · Guru

The fact that there is secularism or humanism or atheism in and of itself does not concern me in the least. If you do not believe in God, I am not offended in the least. What is more concerning is that each of these are fluid in what is deemed acceptable in society. In short, the moral compass changes with the times. It is a moving target. On the surface this seems to be a rather laudable stance, but in reality it is very scary. Especially to those that align with a compass that never changes. IT is a moving target. What was once deemed icky or unacceptable in 2000 suddenly is expected and worthy of hero worship in 2015.

I keep asking.. "What is next?"

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Cheerios4606 wrote:
The fact that there is secularism or humanism or atheism in and of itself does not concern me in the least. If you do not believe in God, I am not offended in the least. What is more concerning is that each of these are fluid in what is deemed acceptable in society. In short, the moral compass changes with the times. It is a moving target. On the surface this seems to be a rather laudable stance, but in reality it is very scary. Especially to those that align with a compass that never changes. IT is a moving target. What was once deemed icky or unacceptable in 2000 suddenly is expected and worthy of hero worship in 2015.

I keep asking.. "What is next?"

And THEN, through the lenses of this new found acceptance, they look back at history and try to change heroes into villians, using their own compass NOW to judge actions of a century ago.