TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

RE: S/O on abortion thread

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
An embryo is not the same as a fetus, a fetus is not the same as a baby. Sorry, but it isn't. Just like an 8 year old and an 18 year old all have different rights and responsibilities, I would say so do the born and the unborn. Of course they are both humans, but your 8 year old can't join the army just because he is a human. We grant different roghts and responsibilities at different life stages all the time here, and I simply cannot justify to myself giving an unborn child personhood that outweighs the personhood of the mother.

So an 8 year old has less of a right to live than the 18 year old?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

And an infant is not a child. A child is not an adult. An older adult isnt like a young adult. I think there are stages of human development. And yeah a embryo is distinctly human because there is nothing else it can become. And being small shoukdnt make you insignificant.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

To me, before it is born it just isn't a person. And no, the unborn just don't have much for the way of rights.
It is a potential person. A future person. . . But very different from the breathing, moving, aware people around us.
That is just the way I feel about it, and all my exposure to pregnancies and babies and such have not really shaken that.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
To me, before it is born it just isn't a person. And no, the unborn just don't have much for the way of rights.
It is a potential person. A future person. . . But very different from the breathing, moving, aware people around us.
That is just the way I feel about it, and all my exposure to pregnancies and babies and such have not really shaken that.

And many, many, many people feel differently. They feel it is a baby all along.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

And science tells us it is a distinct person , a human being with a beating heart , functioning brain , capable of feeling pain. Uniquely human. So sorry how you "feel" about it is irrelevant.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Which os why we need to be able to have choice. There are very few situations where I would abort, but I want to have that choice. I do not want another person saying that I MUST give birth just because they say so.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

So many things feel pain, and have heartbeats. That doesn’t make them people.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

An embryo has no consciousness. It does nothing on purpose, only by reflex. Ever wonder why you can't remember anything from when you were on the womb? There is a reason, an embryo isn't a person.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Uniquely human.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Except in the beginning, all embryos look the same. Well, most. Cows, pigs, even chickens and geckos.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Cows and pigs do not kill their embryos. Humans are the only species to have gained that distinction, sadly.

The DNA (science) says a human embryo is... ah, human. Right down to the first single cell.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Except in the beginning, all embryos look the same. Well, most. Cows, pigs, even chickens and geckos.

Uh so they "look" alike to the uneducated eye which proves what exactly? Human in every way.

weltschmerz · Guru

just Czech wrote:
Cows and pigs do not kill their embryos. Humans are the only species to have gained that distinction, sadly.

The DNA (science) says a human embryo is... ah, human. Right down to the first single cell.

Other animals eat their young. We don't.

weltschmerz · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
An embryo has no consciousness. It does nothing on purpose, only by reflex. Ever wonder why you can't remember anything from when you were on the womb? There is a reason, an embryo isn't a person.

It doesn't think. It doesn't breathe. It feels no pain until the third trimester.

It reacts to stimuli, but so does a potted fern.

Ohfour · Hooker

weltschmerz wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
An embryo has no consciousness. It does nothing on purpose, only by reflex. Ever wonder why you can't remember anything from when you were on the womb? There is a reason, an embryo isn't a person.
It doesn't think. It doesn't breathe. It feels no pain until the third trimester.
It reacts to stimuli, but so does a potted fern.

But it does...you may think of your child as a potted fern, but normal people do not.

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
An embryo has no consciousness. It does nothing on purpose, only by reflex. Ever wonder why you can't remember anything from when you were on the womb? There is a reason, an embryo isn't a person.

I dont remember what happened when I was six weeks old...is it ok to kill a six week old because they dont remember?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Of course. i dont rember being an infant do you?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
An embryo has no consciousness. It does nothing on purpose, only by reflex. Ever wonder why you can't remember anything from when you were on the womb? There is a reason, an embryo isn't a person.
It doesn't think. It doesn't breathe. It feels no pain until the third trimester.
It reacts to stimuli, but so does a potted fern.

A baby doesnt breathe as we breathe. But if you want to play dumb that there is no fetal exchange of oxygen then you are truly ignorant of Anaromy and physiology.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

As for pain a fetus doez feel pain. But they kind of arent capable of reporting it. Guess that makes u feel better as you tear off their limbs and crush their tiny skulls.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

weltschmerz wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
An embryo has no consciousness. It does nothing on purpose, only by reflex. Ever wonder why you can't remember anything from when you were on the womb? There is a reason, an embryo isn't a person.
It doesn't think. It doesn't breathe. It feels no pain until the third trimester.
It reacts to stimuli, but so does a potted fern.

Two of the sickest comments I have ever read on this board.

Disgusting.

weltschmerz · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
As for pain a fetus doez feel pain. But they kind of arent capable of reporting it. Guess that makes u feel better as you tear off their limbs and crush their tiny skulls.

In this, the most extensive scientific literature review on fetal pain, JAMA concludes that fetal pain is not present until the third trimester. Scientists concur that the fetus is suspended in a sleep-like coma until the third trimester. In the most well-regarded, peer-reviewed, double-blind periodicals in the United States and in the United Kingdom, the consensus is that fetal pain is a political construction rather than a scientific fact.

http://scienceprogress.org/2013/04/navigating-the-junk-science-of-fetal-pain/

You know more about it than doctors and scientists? I'm impressed!

You should submit your findings to JAMA.

-- Edited by weltschmerz on Tuesday 29th of March 2016 03:54:22 AM

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Uniquely human.

Potential human.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

just Czech wrote:
Cows and pigs do not kill their embryos. Humans are the only species to have gained that distinction, sadly.

The DNA (science) says a human embryo is... ah, human. Right down to the first single cell.

And an embryo is just that.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
An embryo has no consciousness. It does nothing on purpose, only by reflex. Ever wonder why you can't remember anything from when you were on the womb? There is a reason, an embryo isn't a person.
It doesn't think. It doesn't breathe. It feels no pain until the third trimester.
It reacts to stimuli, but so does a potted fern.
Two of the sickest comments I have ever read on this board.
Disgusting.

It's a thread about ABORTION. Don't read it if you can't handle opposing opinions.

MM and welts were stating FACTS.

flan

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
And an infant is not a child. A child is not an adult. An older adult isnt like a young adult. I think there are stages of human development. And yeah a embryo is distinctly human because there is nothing else it can become. And being small shoukdnt make you insignificant.

This is the argument that makes the most sense against abortion. Human beings are constantly developing, it is only in death that we stop.

Tinydancer · Guru

Facts? You don't even know what a fact is.

Tinydancer · Guru

Awww IKWTDS the mother might lose her "personhood" if she has a baby though...

Seriously if you have to tell yourself these things to make it ok in your mind then that's just messed up.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tinydancer wrote:
Facts? You don't even know what a fact is.

Does an embryo THINK? There's ONE fact.

Does it BREATHE? That's another FACT.

Do you do anything else besides parrot other posters?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
An embryo has no consciousness. It does nothing on purpose, only by reflex. Ever wonder why you can't remember anything from when you were on the womb? There is a reason, an embryo isn't a person.
It doesn't think. It doesn't breathe. It feels no pain until the third trimester.
It reacts to stimuli, but so does a potted fern.
Two of the sickest comments I have ever read on this board.
Disgusting.

It's a thread about ABORTION. Don't read it if you can't handle opposing opinions.
MM and welts were stating FACTS.
flan

NO, those are not the "facts". In utero babies do not breathe with lungs, but they are going thru the process of exchanging respiratory gases.

And, yes, they feel pain in utero. But, i didn't realize those are now the definitive markers of being a human being. I guess Welts gets to define that? Uh huh.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tinydancer wrote:
Awww IKWTDS the mother might lose her "personhood" if she has a baby though...

Seriously if you have to tell yourself these things to make it ok in your mind then that's just messed up.

THIS is what Dona actually said:

I simply cannot justify to myself giving an unborn child personhood that outweighs the personhood of the mother.

Because, FACTS...

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
just Czech wrote:
Cows and pigs do not kill their embryos. Humans are the only species to have gained that distinction, sadly.

The DNA (science) says a human embryo is... ah, human. Right down to the first single cell.
And an embryo is just that.
flan

And, an infant is just that.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The fundamental question of abortion isn't what stage of development, breathing, pain sensation , blah, blah. The fundamental question is, Is this a HUMAN BEING or not? If so, you have no right, whatsoever to end it's life.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Facts? You don't even know what a fact is.
Does an embryo THINK? There's ONE fact.
Does it BREATHE? That's another FACT.
Do you do anything else besides parrot other posters?
flan

OK, yeah, if you are 9 yrs old and think that breathing is somehow a marker of a developing child and you have no knowledge of fetal respiratory physiology. Oh, they don't breathe, therefore WHAT exactly? Like i said you aren't very viable if someone holds you head under water for 20 min either. That's utter nonsense. Oh the fetus isn't viable in a different environment other than the one they were designed to develop in so therefore WHAT exactly?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I know! Let's compare the fetus to Hitler!!

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Facts? You don't even know what a fact is.
Does an embryo THINK? There's ONE fact.
Does it BREATHE? That's another FACT.
Do you do anything else besides parrot other posters?
flan

So you have proof it doesn't think? There is proof it breathes. There's proof it feels pain. Justifying it to yourself with pretty words is make believe. Who exactly am I parroting flannie? These are the same opinions I've had since I start so stop project your need for everyone to love you on me.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Here ya go. Maybe some of you can educate yourself.

study.com/academy/lesson/fetal-blood-circulation-diagram-lesson-quiz.html

Have you ever wondered how a fetus gets oxygen in the womb, which is an aquatic environment? The answer lies in the way a fetus's circulatory system differs from that of an organism outside the womb. This lesson covers fetal blood and circulation.
Overview of Fetal Circulation
Have you ever wondered how a fetus gets oxygen in the womb? The answer to that question is that a fetus in the womb gets oxygen from its mother. Technically, the placenta acts like lungs for the fetus. Deoxygenated blood from the fetus travels through the umbilicus, or navel, to the placenta. This blood also carries fetal waste products. In the placenta, waste products leave the fetal blood and are picked up by the maternal blood. Oxygen in the maternal blood is transferred to the fetal blood at the same time. The oxygenated blood then leaves the placenta and travels back to the fetus through the umbilicus.

This image shows the orientation of a fetus, the placenta, and the womb
Image of a placenta and fetus
Role of the Placenta
The mother's circulation is separate from that of the fetus. So, how does oxygen get from the maternal blood to the fetal blood?

Fetal hemoglobin, the protein that binds oxygen in the blood, has a higher affinity for oxygen than does maternal hemoglobin. This means that a fetus can steal oxygen from its mother's blood. Also, water, glucose, amino acids, vitamins and inorganic salts freely diffuse across the placenta along with oxygen. A structure called the chorionic villus is the actual site of oxygen, waste and nutrient exchange. It has an alveolus-like structure, which is the same structure as lungs.

Pathway of Blood
The umbilical vein carries blood from the placenta to the fetus. Even though this is called a vein, it actually carries oxygen-rich blood. Some of this blood passes through an opening called the fetal ductus venosus and enters the inferior vena cava. The inferior vena cava is a vessel that takes blood to the fetal heart. The rest of the blood enters the fetal liver through a vessel called the portal vein. The blood then moves to the right atrium of the heart.

In the fetus, there is an opening between the right and left atrium called the foramen ovale. Most of the blood flows through this hole directly into the left atrium from the right atrium. Fetal blood does not travel through the lungs because of this hole between the atria. The fetal blood travels from the left atrium to the left ventricle. Then it is pumped through the aorta, or the largest artery, into the body. Once the blood has lost much of its oxygen and picked up waste from the fetus it returns to the placenta. The umbilical arteries are responsible for taking oxygen-poor blood and waste back to the placenta.

To unlock this lesson you must be a Study.com Member. C

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The fundamental question of abortion isn't what stage of development, breathing, pain sensation , blah, blah. The fundamental question is, Is this a HUMAN BEING or not? If so, you have no right, whatsoever to end it's life.

It is a POTENTIAL human being.

I believe that I have NO RIGHT to make that decision for another woman.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

No, it isn't a POTENTIAL human being. It is in fact, a human being. Wow.

As for the "right to make that decision", yes we have a right and a DUTY to stop murder.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The fundamental question of abortion isn't what stage of development, breathing, pain sensation , blah, blah. The fundamental question is, Is this a HUMAN BEING or not? If so, you have no right, whatsoever to end it's life.
It is a POTENTIAL human being.
I believe that I have NO RIGHT to make that decision for another woman.
flan

I believe that a woman has NO RIGHT to make that decision for an innocent child.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The child's body isnt HER body.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The child's body isnt HER body.

So babies are brought by the stork?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The child's body is uniquely it's own separate and distinct from the mother. In case you actually want to discuss this beyond a first grade level?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The child's body is uniquely it's own separate and distinct from the mother. In case you actually want to discuss this beyond a first grade level?

But it can't SURVIVE without its incubator.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The child's body is uniquely it's own separate and distinct from the mother. In case you actually want to discuss this beyond a first grade level?
But it can't SURVIVE without its incubator.
flan

Yes, because God designed mothers to actually love and care and nurture their own offspring. The fact that there are now some women who no longer do isn't the fault of God's design.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Neither can an infant survive on it's own without someone to feed him/her, keep her warm, etc. Yeah an infant can breathe it's own. But, can't forage for food so KILL IT!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The child's body is uniquely it's own separate and distinct from the mother. In case you actually want to discuss this beyond a first grade level?
But it can't SURVIVE without its incubator.
flan
Yes, because God designed mothers to actually love and care and nurture their own offspring. The fact that there are now some women who no longer do isn't the fault of God's design.

There have been unwanted pregnancies since the dawn of time. Yes, BC is more reliable now.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

But, if other women wanna kill their own kids, then have at i guess. No skin off my nose.

Tinydancer · Guru

An embryo isn't a baby and killing it isn't murder. That makes so much sense...