TOTALLY GEEKED!

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: NY Professor Says Algebra Is Too Hard, Schools Should Drop It


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 25897
Date:
NY Professor Says Algebra Is Too Hard, Schools Should Drop It
Permalink  
 


A New York professor has sparked a debate among educators over whether or not algebra is too hard and should be dropped from the curriculum.

Political scientist Andrew Hacker of Queens College in New York insists the difficulty of learning algebra is responsible for a higher dropout rate when students find they can’t grasp the discipline. The course should be excluded, Hacker says, because the math is just too hard for students today.

“One out of 5 young Americans does not graduate from high school. This is one of the worst records in the developed world. Why? The chief academic reason is they failed ninth-grade algebra,” Hacker says in his new book The Math Myth and Other STEM Delusions.

The Queens College professor emeritus says only about five percent of jobs have any use for algebra and other advanced maths, so teaching higher math is both a waste of time and causes actual damage to graduation rates.

“At the very time we should be honing and sharpening quantitative reasoning skills we punch students into algebra, geometry, calculus. The Math People take over and ignore much simpler needs. Arithmetic is super essential — we quantify everything,” Hacker toldThe New York Times.

Hacker went on to note that 57 percent of CUNY students failed basic algebra, “And this is getting worse with the Common Core,” he added.

Proponents of continuing to teach algebra, though, discount Hacker’s claims. Bill McCallum, a professor at the University of Arizona who helped create the math standards for Common Core, said that while it may be true few will go on to use algebra on the job, the skill should be taught anyway because “we don’t know which kids” will need the skill and which won’t.

Another top educator, Philip Uri Treisman, a professor of mathematics and of public affairs at the University of Texas, said teaching algebra also helps train students in other ways, even if they don’t use the math later on in their careers.

“Every study I’ve ever seen of workers in whole bunches of fields shows that you have to understand formulas, you have to understand relationships,” Treisman said. “Algebra is the tool for consolidating your knowledge of arithmetic.”

But other educators essentially agree with Hacker.

Karon Klipple, a project director for the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, also noted too many students are dropping out of college because algebra is too hard. Klipple claimed that between 60 and 80 percent of students who drop out do so because the math requirements are too hard.

“This is where their hopes and aspirations go to die,” Klipple told the Associated Press. “They’re in college to try to make a better life for themselves, and they’re stopped by mathematics.”

The problem seems widespread. Last year The Washington Post reported that three out of four high schoolers in Maryland failed Algebra 1 and fn 2014 it was reported that 100,000 students in Arizona failed the state’s mandated math testing.

Professor Hacker also went on to say the ACT and SAT testing kids go through is also useless for job skills and contributes to lower graduation statistics.

“On the whole, I’d be happy if the ACT and SAT quietly disappeared,” he told the Times. “Speed may be necessary for firefighters and airline pilots. But not in the intellectual enterprise. And yet, on many fronts, test scores in math provide an edge for awards and admissions.”

Follow Warner Todd Huston on Twitter @warnerthuston or email the author at igcolonel@hotmail.com

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/03/28/ny-professor-says-algebra-is-too-hard-schools-should-drop-it/

 



__________________

https://politicsandstuff.proboards.com/



Frozen Sucks!

Status: Offline
Posts: 24384
Date:
Permalink  
 

Algebra is not hard for the typical child, well not once learned! And it is applicable in everyday life.

__________________

Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.

Frozen is the bestest movie ever, NOT!



Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

Algebra is not hard for the typical child, well not once learned! And it is applicable in everyday life.


 Math is the only subject that routinely had me in tears. I went to the math lab, had a tutor, did all of the homework and extra credit and barely scraped by with a C-.



__________________


Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

And I haven't used it once.

__________________


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

And I haven't used it once.


 Yes, you actually have.  But it is part of your thought process that you don't overtly notice.  As an example - when you reduce or increase recipes, you use algebra to figure the right amounts of each ingredient.  



__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 25897
Date:
Permalink  
 

It's sooo haaarrrrddd!!! Wah!

__________________

https://politicsandstuff.proboards.com/



On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

When you figure out how long it will take you to get somewhere - you are using algebra.

__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

When you convert from the metric system to the American system, you are using algebra.

__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

Finance - calculating APR and compounded interest requires algebra.

__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



Hooker

Status: Offline
Posts: 12666
Date:
Permalink  
 

I may be wrong here, but Dona, don't you work on a dairy farm?

Do you measure the amount of milk a cow produces? If production is down (or up) you use algebra to figure out the percentage of the change in production.

__________________

America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...



Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

And I haven't used it once.


 Yes, you actually have.  But it is part of your thought process that you don't overtly notice.  As an example - when you reduce or increase recipes, you use algebra to figure the right amounts of each ingredient.  


 HAHAHAHAHAHA

'Recipes '

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA



__________________


Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

Ohfour wrote:

I may be wrong here, but Dona, don't you work on a dairy farm?

Do you measure the amount of milk a cow produces? If production is down (or up) you use algebra to figure out the percentage of the change in production.


 Generally,  we measure things in actual pounds on a cow level, and rarely we look at overall farm trends as percentage points, but the milk company/computer program calculates that automatically. 



__________________


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

And I haven't used it once.


 Yes, you actually have.  But it is part of your thought process that you don't overtly notice.  As an example - when you reduce or increase recipes, you use algebra to figure the right amounts of each ingredient.  


 HAHAHAHAHAHA

'Recipes '

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA


 I thought you baked cakes?  evileye



__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

I do think it should be taught, actually, just so kids that will be good at it get exposed to it. But streamline it.

__________________


Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

And I haven't used it once.


 Yes, you actually have.  But it is part of your thought process that you don't overtly notice.  As an example - when you reduce or increase recipes, you use algebra to figure the right amounts of each ingredient.  


 HAHAHAHAHAHA

'Recipes '

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA


 I thought you baked cakes?  evileye


 I do. But, changing pan sizes is very basic multiplication.



__________________


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

And I haven't used it once.


 Yes, you actually have.  But it is part of your thought process that you don't overtly notice.  As an example - when you reduce or increase recipes, you use algebra to figure the right amounts of each ingredient.  


 HAHAHAHAHAHA

'Recipes '

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA


 I thought you baked cakes?  evileye


 I do. But, changing pan sizes is very basic multiplication.


 It's basic multiplication b/c you know algebra.



__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

I have been baking cakes longer than I have been exposed to algebra. Higher math is not magically easier if you know how to bake.
Science and baking go together more naturally than math and baking.

__________________


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

I have been baking cakes longer than I have been exposed to algebra. Higher math is not magically easier if you know how to bake.
Science and baking go together more naturally than math and baking.


 And math is a basic building block of science.  Had to have algebra to take chemistry.



__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

I have been baking cakes longer than I have been exposed to algebra. Higher math is not magically easier if you know how to bake.
Science and baking go together more naturally than math and baking.


 And math is a basic building block of science.  Had to have algebra to take chemistry.


 I don't know what to tell you. I was mediocre at basic math, abysmal in all higher math, and totally rocked chemistry and biology, both of which I took concurrently or before algebra. 



__________________


Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

And I have been baking and altering sizes and recipes my whole life. Algebra made zero impact on it.

__________________


My dog name is Sasha, too!

Status: Offline
Posts: 6679
Date:
Permalink  
 

I am not a math person. I took algebra in 8th grade & passed with probably a B. I aced geometry in 9th grade then completely fell apart when I had to take algebra II in 10th grade. I got lost at the halfway point & there was just no coming back. It is the only class I have ever cheated in. Thankfully I had completed my math requirements & never took another math class again.

__________________


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

I have been baking cakes longer than I have been exposed to algebra. Higher math is not magically easier if you know how to bake.
Science and baking go together more naturally than math and baking.


 And math is a basic building block of science.  Had to have algebra to take chemistry.


 I don't know what to tell you. I was mediocre at basic math, abysmal in all higher math, and totally rocked chemistry and biology, both of which I took concurrently or before algebra. 


 I have no idea how you rocked chemistry without an understanding of basic algebra.  I think you know more algebra than you think you do.  Basic algebra isn't really that hard.  



__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

I don't think you need HIGHER algebra if it doesn't affect your work, but we all do basic algebra in cooking, shopping, etc.

And Dona, you can learn basic algebra prior to taking an algebra course, which is what you did when learning to bake. When you alter a recipe and have to reduce the amount of salt b/c you reduced the amount of sugar, then that was algebra.

__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

From scienceblogs.com -

Actually, come to think of it, if we deemphasize algebra, we might as well add science to the mix, because without algebra it is damned near impossible to become proficient at any science. It’s the very minimal that is necessary to understand basic physics, for example, and perhaps not even enough for that given how much of physics is based on calculus. However, algebra is probably enough to undergird a basic understanding of classical physics that is adequate for an average educated citizen to need to know. Of course, without algebra, chemistry would be completely indecipherable, at least anything quantitative. Forget about reaction stoichiometries, kinetics, and the like. That will be out of reach, except for mushy generalities. Then forget about biology and biochemistry as well. No enzyme kinetics, membrane potentials, half-lives, or anything quantitative. And for you budding doctors out there, forget about medicine! A solid understanding of all these sciences, and more (pharmacology and human physiology in particular) is beyond your understanding if you don’t understand the basics of algebra.


Full article - http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/07/30/do-we-need-algebra-are-you-kidding-me/



__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

Anyway - the OP is ridiculous. No wonder we are so far behind in math and science in the world. We shouldn't give up on algebra, we should teach it EARLIER.

__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

And sorry - if kids are failing 9th grade algebra at those rates - our school system SUCKS.

__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1758
Date:
Permalink  
 

The systematic dumbing down so the uneracheivers won't feeeeeel bad .
I weep for the future.

__________________
That's Mrs. Face to you!


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 25897
Date:
Permalink  
 

It's very 8th grade to say "why do i have to learn this, i will never use it again"! Well, why learn anything? Most of what you learn is knowledge you don't necessarily "use" in daily life.

__________________

https://politicsandstuff.proboards.com/



Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

It should definitely be taught--but, obviously, they need to change the way they teach it from the beginning, and perhaps make less of it a requirement to graduate.

__________________


Hooker

Status: Offline
Posts: 12666
Date:
Permalink  
 

I took Algebra I in 7th grade, II in 8th Grade.

I don't think it's a requirement here, I think you need to have 2 years of a math. And that could be basic...

__________________

America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...



Hooker

Status: Offline
Posts: 12666
Date:
Permalink  
 

Well, I lied. Things have changed since I was in school. You have to have ALGI & II + two more math courses to graduate. I know I didn't take math my Jr or Sr year...

__________________

America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...



Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

I did okay in intro, most of that was not much above basic math that I learned homeschooling. Intermediate was a struggle, but I passed and did okay.
And then I hit College Algebra, and it was a different planet. That needed to be slowed down, and broken up into at least one other class. To much information, I couldn't understand anything. I asked so many questions in class the rest of the class would get mad at me, and I met with the teacher and did everyhing I could think of. I cried my way through the final exam, but four people just walked out without even finishing. One guy tried to light his one fire.
The teacher gave a candy bar to everyone that actually finished the final. She was nice.

__________________


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

I did okay in intro, most of that was not much above basic math that I learned homeschooling. Intermediate was a struggle, but I passed and did okay.
And then I hit College Algebra, and it was a different planet. That needed to be slowed down, and broken up into at least one other class. To much information, I couldn't understand anything. I asked so many questions in class the rest of the class would get mad at me, and I met with the teacher and did everyhing I could think of. I cried my way through the final exam, but four people just walked out without even finishing. One guy tried to light his one fire.
The teacher gave a candy bar to everyone that actually finished the final. She was nice.


 Confession time.  I had to take college algebra twice.  The first time I got a D.  The second time, the teacher I had told the class that he was teaching to those people who didn't understand math well, and if they understood it completely and got bored, they could leave.  He said it was his job to reach those of us who needed help.  He was awesome.  I finally, finally, finally GOT algebra beyond the basics.



__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1758
Date:
Permalink  
 

I barely squeaked by in college. I could get the answer in my head but not show how. I hated it!

__________________
That's Mrs. Face to you!


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

Mary Zombie wrote:

I barely squeaked by in college. I could get the answer in my head but not show how. I hated it!


 That's me.  My mind can calculate the answer correctly.  I just don't know how it does it.



__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 25897
Date:
Permalink  
 

Some things in life are "hard". So what?

__________________

https://politicsandstuff.proboards.com/



Vette's SS!!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2297
Date:
Permalink  
 

I think the OP has a point, honestly. More and more advanced math is required in school, and if you don’t have the luxury of the time or money to invest into math labs, private tutors or meeting with the teacher could very well fail--and not everyone will be able to just take it twice.

__________________


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Status: Offline
Posts: 27192
Date:
Permalink  
 

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

I think the OP has a point, honestly. More and more advanced math is required in school, and if you don’t have the luxury of the time or money to invest into math labs, private tutors or meeting with the teacher could very well fail--and not everyone will be able to just take it twice.


 More common core nonsense.  Trying to keep up with other countries without actually figuring out how. 



__________________

LawyerLady

 

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1758
Date:
Permalink  
 

Let's not do anything hard. Let's all accept mediocrity 😀

__________________
That's Mrs. Face to you!


My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Status: Offline
Posts: 38325
Date:
Permalink  
 

I failed algebra twice. Same course, same teacher. Third time I took it I got my grade up to 2 points under passing. She gave me the two points.

I couldn't comprehend it. Still cant.

It makes no sense to me. None at all.

And I've used math daily since graduation, rather in a carpet mill cutting samples or in a restaurant portioning or doing the books auditing the store.

I can figure square footage, alter recipes and calculate time.

But put an algebraic equation in front of me and ask me to do it and it like asking a blind person to drive.

I don't know it doesn't need to be taught.

But maybe the way it is taught.



__________________

A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3029
Date:
Permalink  
 

Algebra isn't that hard for me, but I can understand why some people have a tough time with it.

I can't sew worth a lick, but some people can do an awesome job of sewing.

We all have our talents and abilities, all given to us by our Creator. Isn't it wonderful that we were created with such stunning diversity?

__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.



Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard