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Post Info TOPIC: Dear Abby: Man of My Dreams Has House Dogs


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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I looked it up. They are still property.


A) Federal

A: Federal Legislation: Acts and Regulations and Case Law

How a Government Bill becomes Law - Canada


Criminal Code of Canada

Summary in relation to Animal Law:
In Canada, the Criminal Code of Canada controls human behavior in relation to animal suffering. It  defines the limitations and sets out the penalties if there are breaches. Canada treats animals as property. Property rights include the rights of possession, the rights of use, and the enjoyment of property to the exclusion of humans. The Criminal Code of Canada under Part XI sets out the Wilful and Forbidden Acts in Respect of Certain Property. 

An important question to ask: does the present Criminal Code of Canada go far enough to protect those rights of animals?

Federal Animal Cruelty Law In Canada  

 à
Original Criminal Code

 

The original animal cruelty sections of the Criminal Code were originally enacted in 1892 with only minor amendments made in the mid-1950’s

  • The current offences are archaic and inadequate, resulting in many animal abusers escaping prosecution

    àWeaknesses of the Current Criminal Code

  • Cattle and other working animals have more protection than other species Unowned animals have less protection than owned animals

  • Crimes of neglect are very difficult to prosecute due to the term ‘wilful neglect’

  • Animal cruelty crimes are considered property offences

  • It is not an offence to train animals to fight other animals, nor to receive money from the fighting of animals

  • There is no specific offence for particularly violent, brutal crimes   against animals

  • No additional protection is afforded to law enforcement animals

Bill S-203

  • Received Royal Assent April 17th, 2008

  • Strongly opposed by all animal protection groups

  • Opposed by the NDP and some Liberal MPs

What did it change?

  • Made no changes at all to the offences

  • Made animal cruelty crimes hybrid offences so they can be charged as summary conviction or indictable

  • Maximum penalties are 5-year jail term, unlimited fines and lifetime prohibition on animal ownership

  • Specifically allows for restitution for agencies that care for abused animals

Bill C-229

  • Private member’s bill tabled by MP Mark Holland in 2009 (identical to C-373)

  • Identical to a bill that passed in the House of Commons in 2003 with the support of all parties

  • Supported by animal protection groups and the majority of animal use industries

What does it change?

  • Modernizes the wording and fixes the gaping loopholes in the offences

  • Protects all animals equally, regardless of species and whether they are owned or not

  • Introduces the term ‘negligent’ instead of ‘wilful neglect’

  • Moves animal cruelty out of the property section of the Criminal Code

  • Introduces an offence of killing an animal brutally or viciously

  • Adds an offence of training animals to fight other animals and receiving money from animal fighting

  • Adds a specific offence for cruelty to law enforcement animals

  • Makes animal cruelty crimes hybrid offences so they can be charged as summary conviction or indictable

  • Maximum penalties are 5-year jail term, unlimited fines and lifetime prohibition on animal ownership

  • Specifically allows for restitution for agencies that care for abused animals

What does it not change?

  • Maintains key words that describe the offences – such as ‘wilfully or recklessly’ and ‘without lawful excuse’

  • Maintaining these words assures protection for animal use activities such as    farming, hunting, fishing, trapping and scientific research

(Source: http://cfhs.ca)

Differences between current law, Bill S-203 and Bill C-229 (formerly C-373)


B) Animal Cruelty Amendments at a Glance

(Source: http://cfhs.ca)

There have been a number of attempts to expand the protection of animals. The Parliament of Canada has made many unsuccessful attempts to update the Code. Numerous Bills have been presented to amend the Criminal Code. Bill s-203 presented by Senator John Bryden is the only piece of legislation passed on April 17, 2008 that effect animal rights. It falls short of amending the animal cruelty sections but does increase the sentences. All other Bills have fallen by the wayside due to a number of reasons one of which is the process of a minority government. Hopefully, C-50 presented by MP Mike Holland, the somewhat identical Bill C558 presented by Penny Priddy NDP, or C-229 are proclaimed. A review of these Bills is important. REVIEW.


C) Animal Pedigree Act 

To promote breed improvement and to protect persons who raise and purchase animals + establish pedigree associations. 

D) Species at Risk Act ( Royal Assent Dec. 12, 2002)

The purpose of this Act is to prevent indigenous species, subspecies, and distinct populations of wildlife from becoming extinct. The Act sets up a Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada. It preserves Aboriginal treaty rights. It lists and names all of the wildlife at risk. It provides for enforcement officers and inspection rights during investigation. It sets out the offences that provide prosecution. It provides the penalties and alternative measures in the sentencing process.

E) NCC Animal Regulations


The regulations try to control dogs in the Greenbelt surrounding Ottawa. It is under the jurisdiction of the federal government in Canada. It restricts walking in these public lands – 2 pets, pickup waste, no swimming, divided into 3 areas (leashed vs off-leash), service dog exemptions, no cycling, skiing, in-line with dog. It is enforced by NCC conservation officers. The fines vary from minor infractions ($100) to $300 for major infractions including biting.

F) 
Canada Wildlife Act Canada

G) Canadian Environmental Assessment Act

H)
 Migratory Birds Convention Act

I) Wild Life and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Agreement

 

 



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LawyerLady

 

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Ok. So the law says the dog you bought is not your property?

And they have the right not to get their tails and ears clipped?

Oh geez. Wouldn't that still be up to the owner/caregiver?

It isn't like the dog can hire a lawyer on its own.

Seems it can't do anything without the owners consent.

So really, it's a useless law.

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What part of QUEBEC HAS IT's OWN LAWS is so hard to understand?

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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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If they are sentient beings and not property, does that mean you have to legally adopt them rather than purchase them?

If you BUY them, they are property, no matter what they call them.

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They hate it when you use logic against them LL.

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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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If you can buy and sell something, it is property. I don't understand why that's a difficult concept.

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I said a long time ago that I wouldn't directly respond to L's posts.
LL mocked me by saying 'You won't respond like flan is moving to Canada."
I stand by what I said.

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weltschmerz wrote:

I said a long time ago that I wouldn't directly respond to L's posts.
LL mocked me by saying 'You won't respond like flan is moving to Canada."
I stand by what I said.


Awww...sorry that someone on the internet hurt your feelings... 



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....unlike LL, who said she'd no longer speak to me.

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weltschmerz wrote:

I said a long time ago that I wouldn't directly respond to L's posts.
LL mocked me by saying 'You won't respond like flan is moving to Canada."
I stand by what I said.


 I don't think so. 



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LawyerLady

 

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weltschmerz wrote:

....unlike LL, who said she'd no longer speak to me.


 Changed my mind; it's my prerogative.  It was my decision in the first place, I can change it.  



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Some people mean what they say. And some don't.

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Just like flan changed her mind about moving to Canada.

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I didn't change my mind about anything.

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So people can't change their minds or it makes them bad? Quite the open mind you have there welts.

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So let me get this straight.

Weltz is not responding to LL by responding to LL's post.

Alright then.



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3906069-Chips-Salsa-Stock-Photo-nachos.jpg



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Lawyerlady wrote:

If you kicked my cat because it scratched you after I told you not to touch it and you ignored me? I'd knock you on your ass. You'd be lucky I didn't have you charged with animal cruelty.


this is where I would be at, if you as an adult, did not listen and leave the cat alone after being asked too clearly and the cat scratched you and you even touched the cat...

Well that would not fly!  You might but not my cat. 

I do not understand this mind set.  at all.



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I'll need a beer with that.

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Tinydancer wrote:

So people can't change their minds or it makes them bad? Quite the open mind you have there welts.


Who said anything about bad?  Where do you come up with this stuff?

I meant what I said. I'm sorry you have a problem with my being a woman of my word.



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weltschmerz wrote:

Some people mean what they say. And some don't.


Weltz, the reason I chose to ignore you was that I honestly thought your animosity towards me was what was making you so abrasive and hostile in your posts.  I really thought that if I ignored you and didn't engage with you, that you would become a normal, non-hostile poster, and I wanted to give you that opportunity.  After months, I realized it's not me, you respond that way to many posters, so there is no reason for me to ignore you, it didn't do any good.



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Riding wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

If you kicked my cat because it scratched you after I told you not to touch it and you ignored me? I'd knock you on your ass. You'd be lucky I didn't have you charged with animal cruelty.


this is where I would be at, if you as an adult, did not listen and leave the cat alone after being asked too clearly and the cat scratched you and you even touched the cat...

Well that would not fly!  You might but not my cat. 

I do not understand this mind set.  at all.


Exactly! If I ask you not to touch my cat, and you do it anyway, you get what's coming to you. 

Sushi the Destroyer HATES having his hind legs touched.

I won't feel sorry for you if he slices and dices you if you do it after being told not to.

Try not to bleed on the carpet.



-- Edited by weltschmerz on Wednesday 13th of April 2016 03:58:04 PM

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TrudyML wrote:

I'll need a beer with that.


Me too!

Please add avocado dip and sour cream, Lily. 



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weltschmerz wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:

So people can't change their minds or it makes them bad? Quite the open mind you have there welts.


Who said anything about bad?  Where do you come up with this stuff?

I meant what I said. I'm sorry you have a problem with my being a woman of my word.


 So you are a woman of your word but LL changed her mind about something so she's not a woman of her word (bad)? You really do think very highly of yourself that's for sure.



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just Czech wrote:
TrudyML wrote:

I'll need a beer with that.


Me too!

Please add avocado dip and sour cream, Lily. 


I like queso dip personally. 



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Give Me Grand's!

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Lexxy wrote:
just Czech wrote:
TrudyML wrote:

I'll need a beer with that.


Me too!

Please add avocado dip and sour cream, Lily. 


I like queso dip personally. 


Okay, she can add that too. I think I will have a red beer though. What do you think?  



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I drink coffee so I don't kill you.

I quilt so I don't kill you.

Do you see a theme?

Faith isn't something that keeps bad things from happening. Faith is what helps us get through bad things when they do happen.



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Tinydancer wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:

So people can't change their minds or it makes them bad? Quite the open mind you have there welts.


Who said anything about bad?  Where do you come up with this stuff?

I meant what I said. I'm sorry you have a problem with my being a woman of my word.


 So you are a woman of your word but LL changed her mind about something so she's not a woman of her word (bad)? You really do think very highly of yourself that's for sure.


Lol! Some say I think highly of myself.

Others say I have low self-esteem. (see toddler beauty pageant thread)

I do wish you people would make up your minds.



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weltschmerz wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:

So people can't change their minds or it makes them bad? Quite the open mind you have there welts.


Who said anything about bad?  Where do you come up with this stuff?

I meant what I said. I'm sorry you have a problem with my being a woman of my word.


 So you are a woman of your word but LL changed her mind about something so she's not a woman of her word (bad)? You really do think very highly of yourself that's for sure.


Lol! Some say I think highly of myself.

Others say I have low self-esteem. (see toddler beauty pageant thread)

I do wish you people would make up your minds.


 Different people have different opinions.  We are not the Borg.



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Lexxy wrote:
just Czech wrote:
TrudyML wrote:

I'll need a beer with that.


Me too!

Please add avocado dip and sour cream, Lily. 


I like queso dip personally. 


 and some salsa!  then a few slices of lime to squeeze in the beer 

and some sun and warm sand sun tan lotion.....beach chair.....cabana boy....and...... oh whoops I sorta got caught up in the moment

 

   



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Oh my, the Borg have been mentioned. This is serious. ;)

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Do you see a theme?

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just Czech wrote:

Oh my, the Borg have been mentioned. This is serious. ;)


Resistance is futile... 



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Give Me Grand's!

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Riding wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
just Czech wrote:
TrudyML wrote:

I'll need a beer with that.


Me too!

Please add avocado dip and sour cream, Lily. 


I like queso dip personally. 


 and some salsa!  then a few slices of lime to squeeze in the beer 

and some sun and warm sand sun tan lotion.....beach chair.....cabana boy....and...... oh whoops I sorta got caught up in the moment

 

   


Can you make pico (sp) for us Riding? 



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I drink coffee so I don't kill you.

I quilt so I don't kill you.

Do you see a theme?

Faith isn't something that keeps bad things from happening. Faith is what helps us get through bad things when they do happen.



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Ohhhh me! I make a yummy pico!!!

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Animals are property. You can buy and sell them.
And they do not have rights.
But.
HUMANS have the responsibility to treat them in a humane fashion, and I adore my pets, and if you treat them poorly you will not be welcome in my home.

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Riding wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
just Czech wrote:
TrudyML wrote:

I'll need a beer with that.


Me too!

Please add avocado dip and sour cream, Lily. 


I like queso dip personally. 


 and some salsa!  then a few slices of lime to squeeze in the beer 

and some sun and warm sand sun tan lotion.....beach chair.....cabana boy....and...... oh whoops I sorta got caught up in the moment

 

   


Careful with those limes and sun. Lime disease vs lyme disease.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/limes-blamed-girls-degree-burns/story?id=20164612

 

 



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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

Animals are property. You can buy and sell them.
And they do not have rights.
But.
HUMANS have the responsibility to treat them in a humane fashion, and I adore my pets, and if you treat them poorly you will not be welcome in my home.


I totally agree.

As much as I dislike animals, I could never ever hurt one.  Unless it was attacking someone.  I ran over a squirrel the other day and it broke my heart... 



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Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

Animals are property. You can buy and sell them.
And they do not have rights.
But.
HUMANS have the responsibility to treat them in a humane fashion, and I adore my pets, and if you treat them poorly you will not be welcome in my home.


I totally agree.

As much as I dislike animals, I could never ever hurt one.  Unless it was attacking someone.  I ran over a squirrel the other day and it broke my heart... 


Squirrel killer!! 



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"Hostility" is in the eye of the beholder.

flan

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My dog name is Sasha, too!

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just Czech wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
just Czech wrote:
TrudyML wrote:

I'll need a beer with that.


Me too!

Please add avocado dip and sour cream, Lily. 


I like queso dip personally. 


Okay, she can add that too. I think I will have a red beer though. What do you think?  


Frozen raspberry margarita  



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Lexxy wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

Animals are property. You can buy and sell them.
And they do not have rights.
But.
HUMANS have the responsibility to treat them in a humane fashion, and I adore my pets, and if you treat them poorly you will not be welcome in my home.


I totally agree.

As much as I dislike animals, I could never ever hurt one.  Unless it was attacking someone.  I ran over a squirrel the other day and it broke my heart... 


Squirrel killer!! 


Now, if I had run over my Moby, I probably would have died.  

 

Here's a picture of the squirrel that we feed.  Moby...biggrin  He's eating peanuts on the porch and Deb is trying to get to him..

 

Dex and Moby.jpg 



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My dog name is Sasha, too!

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It's hard to see the pic but he's albino right? Moby is cool!!

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It's amusing how just because we wouldn't want a pet we're some kind of monster but I have never intentionally hurt an animal in my life. I don't even kill flies. I shoo them out or wait til they disappear. I will feed and take care of others pets while they're away. I once took a dog that had been hit by a driver who just kept driving to the vet and paid his bills until the owner was found and gratefully reimbursed me.

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Lexxy wrote:

It's hard to see the pic but he's albino right? Moby is cool!!


Yep!  We have three of them now.  Here's a better pic...

 

mobytree.jpg 



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Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

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Lexxy wrote:

It's hard to see the pic but he's albino right? Moby is cool!!


UNT always seems to have an albino squirrel running around the campus.

The kids think it's good luck if they spot him on the way to take an exam. smile

 



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The best kind of pet. Give them some peanuts and enjoy watching them from a distance. Moby is a very lucky squirrel even if he's different than all the others.

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My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

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96dc48ba1dd2406b6be44d382f77783c.jpg

Flower-Box-drink-cooler-Awesome.jpg



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Ok can I have some of that or must I bring a pet to enjoy the bounty? It's looks good enough that I'd borrow one...lol

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You can bring a pet but it must stay on a leash at all times.

But leave the kids home.biggrin



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Awww but my pets and kids are equal so I won't bring either and it'll be your fault. But that means more for us.

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I really don't like it when people brings pets (or kids) to my house. I don't bring mine, show the same respect.

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