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Post Info TOPIC: Great men are rarely "good" men.


Guru

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This was a quote recently in an article about Andrew Jackson and how we are viewing him through the lens of our current climate of political correctness.  He was a slave owner, but so were Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe before him.  

George Rogers Clark, without whom the Revolution may not have succeeded--had Indians beheaded to force a British fort to surrender.

FDR ordered over 100,000 Japanese Americans interred.

Churchill ordered the bombing of Dresden, killing more civilians than either atomic bomb, after the outcome of the war was a foregone conclusion.

Truman ordered the dropping of the A-bombs, as well as the fire-bombing of Tokyo.

History is replete with such examples.  Vlad the Impaler tortured and killed thousands, but kept much of Southeastern Europe free from Muslim domination and is considered a hero to this day by many in those areas.

 

Taken individually, any of these acts could be considered dubious to downright reprehensible.  However, given the circumstances of the time, they can be at least understood, if not condoned.  They also don't take away the vast accomplishments of these men--without whom our lives today could be very much different, and likely not better.



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King David was Israels greatest king--but had a man killed because he coveted his wife.

Paul persecuted Christians, but became the greatest force in spreading the gospel in history.

Peter denied Christ, but was the rock upon which his church was built.

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Everyone continually looks for the perfect human being which doesnt exist.

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Everyone continually looks for the perfect human being which doesnt exist.


 I disagree. We all have our deal-breakers.

flan



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I'm trying figure out the point Husker is trying to make.



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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I think I know what husker is trying to say, but I'm not sure that I can paraphrase effectively.

flan

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lilyofcourse wrote:

I'm trying figure out the point Husker is trying to make.


 I'm saying exactly what it says.  Great men are often not "good", at least in some ways. 

We try to fit them into our modern concepts of political correctness and try to denigrate their accomplishments using that lens.

 



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huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

I'm trying figure out the point Husker is trying to make.


 I'm saying exactly what it says.  Great men are often not "good", at least in some ways. 

We try to fit them into our modern concepts of political correctness and try to denigrate their accomplishments using that lens.

 


Sorry, I just can't grasp calling a man that tried his best to wipe out a race a great man.   



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Guru

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1st Samuel 27:8-9

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Ok. I get it.

We live in our time and hind sight is 20/20.



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Not all of them stayed "bad men" Though. There was a spiritual awakening in some.

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Guru

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lilyofcourse wrote:

Ok. I get it.

We live in our time and hind sight is 20/20.


 Basically.  

 

The he fact is, if you want to talk about the treatment of native Americans, Jackson is no different than any president before or after him until at least the 2nd decade of the 20th Century.  All of them are responsible in some way for the displacement and worse of native people.  Also, really, unless we are willing to move back to Europe, Africa, or wherever our ancestors came from if we are not native, then we are benefitting from the actions made by ALL of those men and it's beyond hypocritical to b!tch about it 150 years after the fact.



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Mary Zombie wrote:

Not all of them stayed "bad men" Though. There was a spiritual awakening in some.


 And some got worse as they went on.  Very little difference In historical terms. 



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Ah I see. ITA husker.

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Survival of the fittest.

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A lot of people evaluate their parents by today's standards. I see husker's point. We are trying to look at them with today's values and standards.

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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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No one is all good.

And yes, it is ridiculous to judge people of 150 years ago by today's standards of PC-ness. Just as it is ridiculous to ignore the realities of history.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

No one is all good.

And yes, it is ridiculous to judge people of 150 years ago by today's standards of PC-ness. Just as it is ridiculous to ignore the realities of history.


 That's what I mean.  Everyone is jumping on the "hate Jackson" bandwagon now for things like the trail of tears, his slave ownership, and other events.

However, from the Jamestown colony forward, Europeans were taking territory from Native Americans in their inevitable drive to settle the continent.  This didn't just start with that event, nor was it necessarily even the worst one.  Every single president from Washington on participated in displacements, resettlements, broken treaties, and warfare until into the 20th century, and, as noted, Jackson was not the only one to own slaves, either, and he was probably a better owner, such as slave owners go, than Jefferson, certainly.



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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If you are going to do that - you may as well hate everyone who is in the history books.

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