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Post Info TOPIC: One of the DUMBEST articles on gun control I've ever seen--and a great response from a commenter.


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One of the DUMBEST articles on gun control I've ever seen--and a great response from a commenter.
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A Revision on the Bill of Rights, Part III

 

 

 

“A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

 

The Second Amendment is highly contested. There is no doubt that people do have the right to carry and have a stockpile of guns (“the right of the people to keep and bear arms”) and a state has the right to organize a well-regulated Militia. But, the main issue is on the right to self-defend with a firearm.

The main problem with the notion of self-defense is it imposes on justice, for everyone has the right for a fair trial. Therefore, using a firearm to defend oneself is not legal because if the attacker is killed, he or she is devoid of his or her rights. In addition, one’s mental capacity is a major factor in deciding whether a man or woman has the right to have a firearm. There are two reasons for ensuring mental capacity. First, one of the Five Aims is to ensure domestic tranquility and there can be no tranquility if one does not have the capacity. Second, if one’s brain is distorting his or her reality, they do not have the proper reasoning and deduction skills to use a firearm.

Therefore, if we ponder and meditate on the recent events in news about guns, it would be obvious that the current state is incorrect. A gun for civilians is a weapon for a revolution and not for ordinary use. The belief that a gun is a useful tool to protect one is counterintuitive because guns get into the hands of people who use them for horrible reasons. In addition, there are reasons why cops are trained to use a firearm in stressful situations. It is not to keep their mind at ease or anything of that sort, but to be able to fire accurately at the target in the correct location. It is immensely difficult to fire when under pressure. Moreover, one may argue this is an analogous argument and yes it is because the United States government is lobbied to not study or fund research that observes the effects of guns. This cripples the chance of evaluating a proper policy to deal with gun violence. But, there was one study by ABC, which observed using guns in a classroom. All the participations poorly performed at the mock situation.

Once again, if there is an argument in the reasoning of this amendment and others, one must filter it through the Five Aims of the USA and the Bill of Rights. This is to ensure that any argument can be answered, avoiding a political divide.



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Andrew Durkee
This is one of the most peculiar pieces I’ve read on the subject. After all, self-defense is one of the most easily defended legal notions in modern society. You’re all over the place, but I’ll take your views point by point.

“The main problem with the notion of self-defense is it imposes on justice, for everyone has the right for a fair trial.”

We cannot assume that “justice” always means a fair trial. Otherwise, every action would need to be deemed appropriate by a judicial body before it can be affected. Instead, Justice in a purer sense simply means “just treatment.” Self Defense is defined as the reasonable use of force to a threat from the attack of an aggressor. In other words, if someone threatens violent action upon you, appropriate just treatment would be to respond with violent action, until the threat of force ceases.

Additionally, to assume that killing in self-defense denies a fair trial (through the 4th amendment) is absurd. The 4th amendment does not apply to individuals. You or I cannot deny someone a fair trial, only the government. I will also point out that killing is not the goal of self-defense. The goal is to stop the threat (i.e. If the threat runs away, I cannot chase after them).

Lastly, Self-Defense is not a legal loophole, or get-out-of-jail-free card. There are plenty of legal mechanics in place to identify and prosecute those who misuse the right of self-defense (its called a murder trial).

“one’s mental capacity is a major factor in deciding whether a man or woman has the right to have a firearm.”

Mental capacity has no bearing on ones rights. Do you believe that a test should be administered before someone can exercise their religion or speak their mind? How about a written test before you’re allowed to vote? After all, “there can be no tranquility if one does not have the capacity.”

Now, I am not saying that one who has been deemed to be mentally unstable and a danger to others should be allowed to have a firearm. However, adding requirements before a right can be exercised (versus curtailing a right) is exceedingly dangerous to the notion of liberty.

“Second, if one’s brain is distorting his or her reality, they do not have the proper reasoning and deduction skills to use a firearm.”

Again, the government must prove this. Not the individual.

“The belief that a gun is a useful tool to protect one is counterintuitive because guns get into the hands of people who use them for horrible reasons.”

These two are not mutually exclusive. How someone else uses a tool does not qualify how I use it. A similary false statement would be: The belief that a car is a useful tool for commuting to work is counterintuitive because cars get into the hands of people who use them to drive drunk.”

“In addition, there are reasons why cops are trained to use a firearm in stressful situations. It is not to keep their mind at ease or anything of that sort, but to be able to fire accurately at the target in the correct location.”

And that is what training is for. There is nothing magical about a badge that makes a police officer shoot better under fire. Additionally, there is nothing unique at a police academy that gives them the proper training. In fact, my local civilian range contracts its space out to local police and military for small arms training. And the vast majority of civilian firearm instructors are prior police and military.

“the United States government is lobbied to not study or fund research that observes the effects of guns.”

Incorrect, the law specifically outlaws the funding of research with the express purpose of promoting gun control. In the 90’s the higher ups at the CDC got caught producing bunk research. There is no blanket ban on gun violence research.

The CDC recently contracted a study on gun violence that indicated guns are used to prevent crime more often than they are used to commit violent crime at a rate of at least 10:1.

“But, there was one study by ABC, which observed using guns in a classroom. All the participations poorly performed at the mock situation.”

This was a poorly conducted “study” that was produced purely for ratings. The “carrying” students were set up for failure, in that the mock school shooter knew exactly where they were sitting and shot them first. Nobody cites this “study” as any kind of proof because its scientifically terrible and, frankly, terrible television.

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"Therefore, using a firearm to defend oneself is not legal because if the attacker is killed, he or she is devoid of his or her rights."



What about the person's right to live and not be attacked? A person's rights stop where they are taking another's.

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The gun lobby trots out an annual figure of 2.5 million such instances. But an analysis of five years’ worth of stats collected by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey puts the number much, much lower — about 67,740 times a year.

It’s also useful, as the Violence Policy Center does, to dig into the relationships among the attackers and those who kill in self-defense. Over the five-year span ending in 2012, more than half — 56% — of the justifiable homicides involved strangers, and in 11% of the cases, the relationship was not reported. The rest were acquaintances (18.7%) such as neighbors and coworkers, and then a mishmash of relatives and personal relationships.

Conversely, of the 2012 criminal firearm homicides in which a relationship was reported, three out of four victims knew their killers, and more than a third were family members or "intimate acquaintances" — such as spouses, ex-spouses or others involved in a romantic relationship.

And those suicides? About half of all suicides are committed with guns, and seven in 10 by men, who also account for 74% of gun owners in the country.

Oddly, given these combined statistics, nearly half of gun owners say they keep weapons because it makes them feel safer, a proportion that has increased dramatically since 1999 even though violent crime has been in a steady decline.

So what conclusions can we draw from this? The notion that a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun is a romanticized vision of the nature of violent crime. And that the sea of guns in which we live causes exponentially more danger and harm than good. It's long past time to start emphasizing the "well-regulated" phrase in the 2nd Amendment.

www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-guns-self-defense-charleston-20150619-story.html




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Dumb statement of the day!!!!!

Oddly, given these combined statistics, nearly half of gun owners say they keep weapons because it makes them feel safer, a proportion that has increased dramatically since 1999 even though violent crime has been in a steady decline.

Think about it...morons...

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apple wrote:

The gun lobby trots out an annual figure of 2.5 million such instances. But an analysis of five years’ worth of stats collected by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey puts the number much, much lower — about 67,740 times a year.

It’s also useful, as the Violence Policy Center does, to dig into the relationships among the attackers and those who kill in self-defense. Over the five-year span ending in 2012, more than half — 56% — of the justifiable homicides involved strangers, and in 11% of the cases, the relationship was not reported. The rest were acquaintances (18.7%) such as neighbors and coworkers, and then a mishmash of relatives and personal relationships.

Conversely, of the 2012 criminal firearm homicides in which a relationship was reported, three out of four victims knew their killers, and more than a third were family members or "intimate acquaintances" — such as spouses, ex-spouses or others involved in a romantic relationship.

And those suicides? About half of all suicides are committed with guns, and seven in 10 by men, who also account for 74% of gun owners in the country.

Oddly, given these combined statistics, nearly half of gun owners say they keep weapons because it makes them feel safer, a proportion that has increased dramatically since 1999 even though violent crime has been in a steady decline.

So what conclusions can we draw from this? The notion that a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun is a romanticized vision of the nature of violent crime. And that the sea of guns in which we live causes exponentially more danger and harm than good. It's long past time to start emphasizing the "well-regulated" phrase in the 2nd Amendment.

www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-guns-self-defense-charleston-20150619-story.html



 Sixty seven thousand is VERY HIGH.  That is more than twice as many as gun deaths.  

Therefore, by a factor of more than double, good guys with guns do prevent gun deaths.



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Ohfour wrote:

Dumb statement of the day!!!!!

Oddly, given these combined statistics, nearly half of gun owners say they keep weapons because it makes them feel safer, a proportion that has increased dramatically since 1999 even though violent crime has been in a steady decline.

Think about it...morons...


 LOL!!!!  Fvcking DUH!!!!!!  Morons.  



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huskerbb wrote:
apple wrote:

The gun lobby trots out an annual figure of 2.5 million such instances. But an analysis of five years’ worth of stats collected by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey puts the number much, much lower — about 67,740 times a year.

It’s also useful, as the Violence Policy Center does, to dig into the relationships among the attackers and those who kill in self-defense. Over the five-year span ending in 2012, more than half — 56% — of the justifiable homicides involved strangers, and in 11% of the cases, the relationship was not reported. The rest were acquaintances (18.7%) such as neighbors and coworkers, and then a mishmash of relatives and personal relationships.

Conversely, of the 2012 criminal firearm homicides in which a relationship was reported, three out of four victims knew their killers, and more than a third were family members or "intimate acquaintances" — such as spouses, ex-spouses or others involved in a romantic relationship.

And those suicides? About half of all suicides are committed with guns, and seven in 10 by men, who also account for 74% of gun owners in the country.

Oddly, given these combined statistics, nearly half of gun owners say they keep weapons because it makes them feel safer, a proportion that has increased dramatically since 1999 even though violent crime has been in a steady decline.

So what conclusions can we draw from this? The notion that a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun is a romanticized vision of the nature of violent crime. And that the sea of guns in which we live causes exponentially more danger and harm than good. It's long past time to start emphasizing the "well-regulated" phrase in the 2nd Amendment.

www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-guns-self-defense-charleston-20150619-story.html



 Sixty seven thousand is VERY HIGH.  That is more than twice as many as gun deaths.  

Therefore, by a factor of more than double, good guys with guns do prevent gun deaths.


 I don't have a problem with responsible gun owners. I do however have a problem with stupid people owning guns. 

Some people think they are going to be hero's, perhaps its too much tv. 



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apple wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
apple wrote:

The gun lobby trots out an annual figure of 2.5 million such instances. But an analysis of five years’ worth of stats collected by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey puts the number much, much lower — about 67,740 times a year.

It’s also useful, as the Violence Policy Center does, to dig into the relationships among the attackers and those who kill in self-defense. Over the five-year span ending in 2012, more than half — 56% — of the justifiable homicides involved strangers, and in 11% of the cases, the relationship was not reported. The rest were acquaintances (18.7%) such as neighbors and coworkers, and then a mishmash of relatives and personal relationships.

Conversely, of the 2012 criminal firearm homicides in which a relationship was reported, three out of four victims knew their killers, and more than a third were family members or "intimate acquaintances" — such as spouses, ex-spouses or others involved in a romantic relationship.

And those suicides? About half of all suicides are committed with guns, and seven in 10 by men, who also account for 74% of gun owners in the country.

Oddly, given these combined statistics, nearly half of gun owners say they keep weapons because it makes them feel safer, a proportion that has increased dramatically since 1999 even though violent crime has been in a steady decline.

So what conclusions can we draw from this? The notion that a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun is a romanticized vision of the nature of violent crime. And that the sea of guns in which we live causes exponentially more danger and harm than good. It's long past time to start emphasizing the "well-regulated" phrase in the 2nd Amendment.

www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-guns-self-defense-charleston-20150619-story.html



 Sixty seven thousand is VERY HIGH.  That is more than twice as many as gun deaths.  

Therefore, by a factor of more than double, good guys with guns do prevent gun deaths.


 I don't have a problem with responsible gun owners. I do however have a problem with stupid people owning guns. 

Some people think they are going to be hero's, perhaps its too much tv. 


 how many people got wrongfully killed last year due to people trying to be "heroes"?  

I doubt you can even find a number because it's so rare.  



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the right to self-defense is an absolute right, regardless of the means/weapons employed, be it fists, firearms, edged weapons, whatever--and that's the end of the 2nd ammendment " argument "

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We will never give up our guns.



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lilyofcourse wrote:

We will never give up our guns.


 Tell me something I DON'T know.

And you can't FORCE me to buy one.

flan



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flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

We will never give up our guns.


 Tell me something I DON'T know.

And you can't FORCE me to buy one.

flan


 LOL.  I don't know why you always come back with this.  NO one is forcing you to buy a gun.  



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flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

We will never give up our guns.


 Tell me something I DON'T know.

And you can't FORCE me to buy one.

flan


Trust me, we really don't want you to... 



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Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

We will never give up our guns.


 Tell me something I DON'T know.

And you can't FORCE me to buy one.

flan


 LOL.  I don't know why you always come back with this.  NO one is forcing you to buy a gun.  


Oh, c'mon...There have been threads HERE where that has been suggested.

flan



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Suggested.

Look it up.

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lilyofcourse wrote:

Suggested.

Look it up.


 Kennesaw, GA.

Look it up.

flan



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flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

Suggested.

Look it up.


 Kennesaw, GA.

Look it up.

flan


 But you are not forced to live there.  Therefore, no one will force you to have a gun.  If you moved there - it would be your CHOICE.



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Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

Suggested.

Look it up.


 Kennesaw, GA.

Look it up.

flan


 But you are not forced to live there.  Therefore, no one will force you to have a gun.  If you moved there - it would be your CHOICE.


nononononononononono 



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flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

Suggested.

Look it up.


 Kennesaw, GA.

Look it up.

flan


 So that's where you live????



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huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

Suggested.

Look it up.


 Kennesaw, GA.

Look it up.

flan


 So that's where you live????


 No.  She doesn't live there.  It's a non-issue.



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And BTW - Kennesaw is simply one of many suburbs of Atlanta. Nobody HAS TO live there.

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And the law in Kennesaw has a very convenient caveat.

It says if you have a moral odjection, you are excluded.

Soooo....

Once again, you have no clue what you are talking about.

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But then she can't whine about the big, bad, mean conservatives forcing her to get a gun.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

But then she can't whine about the big, bad, mean conservatives forcing her to get a gun.


 No, but I CAN point out views that have been expressed here before...I'm not the only one with "selective memory."

flan

 

 

 



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The right to bear arms isn't about self defense. It's about protecting yourself from a Totalitarian Government.

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flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

We will never give up our guns.


 Tell me something I DON'T know.

And you can't FORCE me to buy one.

flan


 Of course.  But, yet you want to force everyone to buy Obamacare and all manner of other things that govt requires.



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The right to bear arms isn't about self defense. It's about protecting yourself from a Totalitarian Government.


 Paranoid much?

flan



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Husker this is the Suicide Mentality of liberalism. Whereby you can't even protect your own life now or the life of your family and children. Liberalism has a suicide wish to destroy this nation.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Husker this is the Suicide Mentality of liberalism. Whereby you can't even protect your own life now or the life of your family and children. Liberalism has a suicide wish to destroy this nation.


 I must have missed that memo...

flan



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lilyofcourse wrote:

We will never give up our guns.


 I wouldn't be so sure about that.  If storm troopers burst into your home and point their guns are your children and family and threaten to shoot them on the spot if you don't hand over your guns, what do you think you will do?  



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So, if an army was to attack YOUR home, a few guns would do what? Stop them from blowing up your house?

flan

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flan327 wrote:

So, if an army was to attack YOUR home, a few guns would do what? Stop them from blowing up your house?

flan


 You do what you have to do flan.  If it is lay down and die or fight and possibly die, i think i will take the latter.



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flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The right to bear arms isn't about self defense. It's about protecting yourself from a Totalitarian Government.


 Paranoid much?

flan


 Do you watch the news?



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Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The right to bear arms isn't about self defense. It's about protecting yourself from a Totalitarian Government.


 Paranoid much?

flan


 Do you watch the news?


 Okey dokey then.

flan



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Fear is a great tool.

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apple wrote:

Fear is a great tool.


 This country was founded on the revolt from a totalitarian British regime in the colonies.  Which is WHY our Constitution was written as it was. 

In my lifetime, I've seen the rise and fall of dictators, the collapse of democracies, the collapse of the U.S.S.R., only for Russia to be rising from the ashes as a world power again. That doesn't include any of the history before my time. 

Fearing a too powerful government is a SMART thing.  If you don't fear it, you won't realize you should have until it is too late. You (general you) can choose to live with your head in the sand, but I will not.



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

We will never give up our guns.


 I wouldn't be so sure about that.  If storm troopers burst into your home and point their guns are your children and family and threaten to shoot them on the spot if you don't hand over your guns, what do you think you will do?  


 If storm troopers burst into my house I'm going to be tickled to death, hopefully Harrison Ford is close by.



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flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

But then she can't whine about the big, bad, mean conservatives forcing her to get a gun.


 No, but I CAN point out views that have been expressed here before...I'm not the only one with "selective memory."

flan

 

 

 


 You said others want to force you to own a gun.

That's not true.

You quoted a law, from a state you don't live in, as some kind of proof.

Now you want to say you were just pointing out views. 

 

Do you actually understand what you post?



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lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

We will never give up our guns.


 I wouldn't be so sure about that.  If storm troopers burst into your home and point their guns are your children and family and threaten to shoot them on the spot if you don't hand over your guns, what do you think you will do?  


 If storm troopers burst into my house I'm going to be tickled to death, hopefully Harrison Ford is close by.


 And I'm not going to be worried - they can't hit the broad side of a barn with those blasters. 



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My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

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And I'd grab my light Saber and start swinging.

The force is strong in me.

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

But then she can't whine about the big, bad, mean conservatives forcing her to get a gun.


 No, but I CAN point out views that have been expressed here before...I'm not the only one with "selective memory."

flan

 

 

 


 You said others want to force you to own a gun.

That's not true.

You quoted a law, from a state you don't live in, as some kind of proof.

Now you want to say you were just pointing out views. 

 

Do you actually understand what you post?


 Better than you, Dear.

flan



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apple wrote:

Fear is a great tool.


 And it's contagious.

flan



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Guru

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And it's contagious.

flan
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it's contagious in sheep and other creatures of prey--not in wolves, not in lions--but then you'll just give-up all your rights anyway when they come to haul you away--and good riddance


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Itty bitty's Grammy

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burns07 wrote:


And it's contagious.

flan
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it's contagious in sheep and other creatures of prey--not in wolves, not in lions--but then you'll just give-up all your rights anyway when they come to haul you away--and good riddance


 Could be BE any LESS of a gentleman?

You're a "lion," a "wolf?" In your dreams...

flan



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flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The right to bear arms isn't about self defense. It's about protecting yourself from a Totalitarian Government.


 Paranoid much?

flan


 Are you really that ignorant of history that you don't understand why the Founding Fathers made this of importance?  Wow.  



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The right to bear arms isn't about self defense. It's about protecting yourself from a Totalitarian Government.


 Paranoid much?

flan


 Are you really that ignorant of history that you don't understand why the Founding Fathers made this of importance?  Wow.  


 She proves it every time we talk about it.



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Guru

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Gun control works best when you take careful aim, and exhale while gently squeezing the trigger.

That's all I have to say about "Gun control"

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The right to bear arms isn't about self defense. It's about protecting yourself from a Totalitarian Government.


 Paranoid much?

flan


 Are you really that ignorant of history that you don't understand why the Founding Fathers made this of importance?  Wow.  


 Are you (general you) ignorant of the fact that the colonies had just fought a WAR to gain their independence? Of course, the Second Amendment was a priority for them.

flan



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Guru

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flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The right to bear arms isn't about self defense. It's about protecting yourself from a Totalitarian Government.


 Paranoid much?

flan


 Are you really that ignorant of history that you don't understand why the Founding Fathers made this of importance?  Wow.  


 Are you (general you) ignorant of the fact that the colonies had just fought a WAR to gain their independence? Of course, the Second Amendment was a priority for them.

flan


 Yes.  And the nature of mankind and humanit hasn't changed and there is always the very real risk of that.  One would think you would take note of the lessons of history.



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