TOTALLY GEEKED!

Real estate agents aren't allowed to give that information any more, because of the federal Fair Housing Act. I guess the writer of the article doesn't know that.

 

OK - These types of articles make me mad b/c they ignore the greater problem. It's not about the haves vs. the have nots. It's about the mindset of the haves vs. the have nots.

This article says that the income gap is widening as more people move into "wealthier" neighborhoods with better schools. But the reason is that the parents that care about education will TRY harder to get to better schools. No, they won't all be able to succeed, but they will also do their best within the schools they do have to deal with.

Over and over and over again, they have tried to even the playing field by building affordable housing and government projects into wealthier neighborhoods, and REPEATEDLY, all it does is drive up the crime rate, bring down scores, and cause flight by the wealthier families to a different district.


If they truly want to differentiate and make a difference in inner city schools - they have to fund them and make them safe. And the reality is that many of the parents in those schools don't care, and the kids become bad apples. Other countries schools succeed b/c they value their best and brightest and give them better opportunities, and don't concentrate all their focus and energy on keeping things "fair".

School districts are still listed on Zillow and real estate listings.

FNW wrote:

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School districts are still listed on Zillow and real estate listings.

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 But that's not giving an evaluation of the school - "good" or "bad".  Many of them are probably letting the prospective buyer do their own evaluation of the school, whereas before the realtor might have said good or bad.

I think it's silly that a realtor can't just tell a buyer whether schools are good or bad, and has to be afraid of a federal law.

Blankie wrote:

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I agree. There are people who care and try, and people who don't care and don't try.

I do feel bad for the conscientious families and kids who are trying so hard but have to go to a decrepit stinky inner-city school.

Boston has exam schools which are very good. Public schools where a poor kid who tries really hard and is smart can get a very good education, if he/she can pass the exam.

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 They need those everywhere.  

 

You know that in Japan, middle schoolers take exams and aptitude tests and are placed in different high schools based on their strengths.  There are schools just dedicated to math and science, schools dedicated to trades, schools dedicated to humanities, etc. 

This is a comment on the article, too -

Many people in my social circle (siblings, friends, coworkers, cousins etc) have kids in the Gifted and Talented Program of good school districts. Yes, almost all of them have parents who pay for a music class or similar enrichment activity. But the parental involvement is immense and these kids often have one parent staying home with them teaching them stuff way beyond the school curriculum. My friend took a few years off work to teach her kid violin and French and advanced math herself. Overwhelmingly these people very often have only one, or maximum too kids. Poorer families usually have more kids and parents are spread more thin unable to dedicate the same time to any one child. The other overwhelming stat is that in my 4 nieces' and nephew's and G&T class, all the kids come from two-parent households. I suspect this makes a difference too.

Ilumine wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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OK - These types of articles make me mad b/c they ignore the greater problem. It's not about the haves vs. the have nots. It's about the mindset of the haves vs. the have nots.

This article says that the income gap is widening as more people move into "wealthier" neighborhoods with better schools. But the reason is that the parents that care about education will TRY harder to get to better schools. No, they won't all be able to succeed, but they will also do their best within the schools they do have to deal with.

Over and over and over again, they have tried to even the playing field by building affordable housing and government projects into wealthier neighborhoods, and REPEATEDLY, all it does is drive up the crime rate, bring down scores, and cause flight by the wealthier families to a different district.


If they truly want to differentiate and make a difference in inner city schools - they have to fund them and make them safe. And the reality is that many of the parents in those schools don't care, and the kids become bad apples. Other countries schools succeed b/c they value their best and brightest and give them better opportunities, and don't concentrate all their focus and energy on keeping things "fair".

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 Actually this is not quite true.  First the rest of the world puts more money into their overall educational system differently than the US.  Teachers are both educated better (following the science of educating humans, i.e. taking into account how the human brain works/learns at different age levels) and paid better.  Therefor the teaching field is respected as the SME they truly are.  

Second, the rest of the world educates their children following the science of education.  Even in Japan and China, play or tactile learning and recesses throughout the day are used even though they have longer days/school years.  

Third and FOREMOST, the rest of the world does not concentrate their focus on the best and brightest, giving them better opportunities, they TRACK their children and provide (i.e. pay for) their childrens true potentials.  Not only do they separate the "going to uni" kids from the "going to trade school" kids before high school, but they actually provide ample money to both sets of high schools and then subsidize both the Universities and Trade Schools.  Ill take a German HVAC over an American HVAC mechanic every day. 

This is the reason why the comparisons between the US and the rest of the world is an apples vs oranges situation.  We test every child, from the sick to the IEPs to the the poor and the world only uses the results for the kids who have gone onto the University High Schools because...these are the kids they are supposed to go on to the Universities.  

I am far from a raging liberal or socialist, but you will find a greater socioeconomic cross section of European and Asian children making it into the Universities because they care enough to cover ALL of their children and their future.  I think our country needs truly look at how the rest of the world educates their children.  

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 First, I'm not disagreeing that we need to focus on all children.  But, we need to realize that all children are NOT the same and not all children have the same strengths and weaknesses and not all children are meant to do the same things.  

Our schools lump everyone together and use the same tests, the same STUPID common core, the same tactics on every child.  As long as they do that - as long as they are more focused on making everything the same in the name of equality and fairness, very few get to thrive.  

 

Finland used to have a school system ranked the same as ours.  They now lead the world.  You know what they did?  They made the school day shorter, increased playtime, and instituted a NO HOMEWORK rule.  The children are given the opportunity to thrive in a natural environment.  

Our school systems is so whacked, there is no ONE fix.  Integrating schools is not the answer - making all the schools better is what matters.  Putting art and music back in the curriculum, and letting children thrive in what they are each individually best at instead of insisting that equality means sameness.

Blankie wrote:

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FNW wrote:

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School districts are still listed on Zillow and real estate listings.

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 But that's not giving an evaluation of the school - "good" or "bad".  Many of them are probably letting the prospective buyer do their own evaluation of the school, whereas before the realtor might have said good or bad.

I think it's silly that a realtor can't just tell a buyer whether schools are good or bad, and has to be afraid of a federal law.

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 Both Trulia and Zillow list the ratings of the school district and provide crime information in the area.  If it is public info, the R/E listing services have the information.

Blankie wrote:

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Trulia and Zillow are not real estate agents. They are real estate databases. If they give info about schools for every listing, there is no discrimination.

Different thing than a real estate agent steering a prospective buyer to a house in a "better" school district. That's what the federal law is prohibiting them from doing.

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 And I think that's not exactly fair.  The schools matter to people buying a house, and it IS a selling feature, regardless of whether or not people like it.

Haven't good schools always been a consideration? I remember 25 years ago when my friends couldn't afford to live in the better school districts because they were just starting out but their parents did. They'd register kids for school at the grandparents address & the kids would get on & off the bus there. It was a pretty common thing here.

NAOW wrote:

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It's interesting how in articles like these that 'not poor' = rich/wealthy.

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 Seriously.  I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination or by the IRS standards.  I am middle class.  

 

 

There are so many reasons some schools are inadequate. Good teachers don't stay at schools where they are paid crap, in danger on a daily basis from students, and on top of that, have to try to teach common core to some students who don't have the physical ability to sit in their seats or pay attention.

Just a few issues -

Safety in schools.
Bad teacher pay.
Mainstreaming special needs students so teachers have to babysit rather than teach.
Disrespect for authority from students AND parents.
No support from administration.
Constant political interference in the classroom.

I also think when better neighborhoods are talked about it is true beyond just being a decent school system. Living in a neighborhood with neighbors that have good family values and interact with their neighbors and such really make or break the whole growing up experience. In my neighborhood, people are middle class or upper, mostly middle, but the one common ideal we have is raising our kids to be good kids and that means that as parents we are good with other parents watching out, sometimes telling on, our kids. That makes the kids responsible for their actions and they know that even if Mom isn't around, there is another parent looking out.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

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I also think when better neighborhoods are talked about it is true beyond just being a decent school system. Living in a neighborhood with neighbors that have good family values and interact with their neighbors and such really make or break the whole growing up experience. In my neighborhood, people are middle class or upper, mostly middle, but the one common ideal we have is raising our kids to be good kids and that means that as parents we are good with other parents watching out, sometimes telling on, our kids. That makes the kids responsible for their actions and they know that even if Mom isn't around, there is another parent looking out.

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 That's values.  And has nothing to do with the school system.  It's a different mindset that keeps the students in the schools performing better, and the teachers and administrators more accountable.

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 I disagree.  It is a being raised properly is a huge part of doing well in school.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

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I also think when better neighborhoods are talked about it is true beyond just being a decent school system. Living in a neighborhood with neighbors that have good family values and interact with their neighbors and such really make or break the whole growing up experience. In my neighborhood, people are middle class or upper, mostly middle, but the one common ideal we have is raising our kids to be good kids and that means that as parents we are good with other parents watching out, sometimes telling on, our kids. That makes the kids responsible for their actions and they know that even if Mom isn't around, there is another parent looking out.

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 That's values.  And has nothing to do with the school system.  It's a different mindset that keeps the students in the schools performing better, and the teachers and administrators more accountable.

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 I disagree.  It is a being raised properly is a huge part of doing well in school.

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 Yes, but I'm talking about what can be changed.  You can't MAKE someone have values or raise their kids with them.  Living in a neighborhood doesn't automatically give values or make people raise their kids properly.  This article things moving people into neighborhoods in wealthier areas will help the poorer kids.  But it won't - b/c the "better" schools can't make the parents better.

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 I agree with the bad parenting factor.  But good neighborhoods do offer opportunity, it's up to the kid to take advantage or not.  I grew up in an affluent town; the degenerates always seemed to be those kids with filthy rich parents,you know, lawyers.    Their parents would buy their kids way out of trouble so the kids didn't learn.