So my future FIL has a service dog (has multiple issues including Parkinson's) as does my future SIL.
DF and I were at our local market yesterday and they now have a sign at the door stating their no pets policy and that they may ask for documentation is you have a service animal.
Looks like after reading the federal law that they're not even allowed to ask for documentation. Not to mention our state does not issue a license or documents. DF posted something on the store FB page that they might want to rethink unless of course they're trying to get sued. So what do you think?
-- Edited by Mary Zombie on Monday 23rd of May 2016 09:12:05 AM
Just like the handicapped parking spaces need the proper tag, I think the service animal should have one.
For several reasons.
1. To keep non service animals out.
2. If something happens to the owner, the dog can stay with them if unconscious or whatever.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
I think you are right. Most, if not all, states have laws that protect service animals. The only "documentation" I would carry around is a copy of the law.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
The problem is, the law permitting service dogs (or miniature horses) are being abused by pet owners, or nut cases who can't seem to leave their home without bringing Fluffy the cat or Fido with them, citing "emotional support" which is bunk. (Unless it's to detect PTSD at the onset and is a real service dog, not just a pet). The store is permitted to ask if it's a service animal, and the task the animal performs. The service animal must either be on a leash, or if in the cart, must be sitting on a mat or in a carrier.
Store owners can post whatever they want, I would assume, but they are only permitted to ask those two questions, not ask for documentation to support it. My guess is the store is trying to crack down on the pets being brought in, rather than true service animals with the threat of requiring documentation. But unless they really ask for it, I don't think they are violating any laws. "May ask for documentation" is not the same as "documentation required." It's a fine line, and I could see the argument for either side.
As for the threat of lawsuit, this is a bigger problem. Store owners are afraid to even ask these days, for fear of public shaming on social media or even a lawsuit, so more and more pets are brought in without question, and thus spreading harmful bacteria and allergens.
I would equate this sign with the "owner retains right to refuse service" signs. They can, legally, refuse even a service dog if not properly restrained or trained, too. But there are always those who sue anyway, out of their ill-conceived "principle", ruining it for those of us who simply want to shop and maintain our safety and health.
I understand that some people abuse this but the law still says that they cannot ask for documentation.
If the animal is behaving properly there's really no reason to harass the person.
That said a service dog was barking up a storm in the old building one day and administration was allowed to approach and inquire as obviously the dog wasn't supposed to do that. I wouldn't interfere otherwise.
My future SIL will have a copy of the law on her from now on.
Future FIL has been harassed on many occasions. It's obvious he has issues and the dog sits under a table or at his side and never makes a peep. It's horrible. I personally wouldn't answer the question what does the dog do for me. I don't think anyone is entitled to my medical info. kWIM?
But the law, in Florida, permits the questions as to what the animal does. So if you don't answer, you can be asked to leave. Don't like it? Call your Congressman. Asking what the dog is trained to do does not reveal your medical information.
Does your FIL's dog wear a special kind of harness or collar/bandanna indicating it is a service dog? Most service dogs around here to, to identify them as service dogs.
-- Edited by FNW on Monday 23rd of May 2016 10:04:35 AM
Yes both FIL and SIL's dogs have the vests. I read in the statute though that they cannot deny access so if someone chooses not to give them medical info I don't see what difference it makes. I could be on board with the question is this a service animal. But then again if the dog has the vest it's obvious. Again I'm ok with inquiring if the dog isn't vested and isn't behaving appropriately.
-- Edited by Mary Zombie on Monday 23rd of May 2016 10:28:30 AM
The problem with the vests, are they sell them to anyone on the internet. "Experts" look more to behavior of the animal than human claims. I do agree I think they should be identified in some way. And personally, if and when the day comes where I might need a service dog, I would be more than happy to produce documentation, and shame on those people who are trying to pass their pets off as service. The liars give the legitimates a bad rap, IMO.
I understand FL makes it a misdemeanor crime to falsely claim your pet is a service dog, even imposing jail time. If they are going to do that, and I do agree with this law, they should require documentation. Otherwise, it's essentially unenforceable. Hopefully the field of service animal trainers, etc., will some day become more regulated.
The problem in Florida is there isn't any license or documentation issued so it's a bit of a catch 22. It does irk me when the dog is behaving exactly as trained and had a bright orange vest and people still ask all sorts of intrusive questions. I do know some people abuse it for sure. Some woman had her cat at the hotel when we were there for a hurricane years ago. She said it was a service animal. She wasn't happy when I asked where the vest and carrier were. But at that point hurricane was hitting and they weren't going to keep do here out in the storm.
-- Edited by Mary Zombie on Monday 23rd of May 2016 11:29:30 AM
-- Edited by Mary Zombie on Monday 23rd of May 2016 11:43:09 AM
My friend's DH's dog wears a vest as well as his credentials. The vest had a clear plastic pocket so anyone can see it without getting in his safe space.
I agree. They should have an identifying something or other.
I was thinking a tag on the collar.
I had a customer sneak their little Yorkie in the restaurant. Twice.
I had to ask her to leave.
Had a bum try to bring his pack in. Almost had to call the police on that one.
But the dad who came in with his son who had a service dog was fine.
Trained service dogs behave differently. They are almost unnoticeable.
To me, it isnt the asking for proof that is the problem. It's that there are so many ways to abuse this need.
It could be as simple as a tag on the collar to solve.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Well my issue is when the dog has the collar and the vest and is behaving as trained, and someone still wants to flex their muscles. I had to ask a guy to take his dog outside last week in fact as he was clearly not a service dog. And he was behaving both the dude and the dog lol.
I have had no trouble asking people with dogs to leave.
Every service dog, truly working service dog I have ever seen had a vest or collar saying such.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
So my future FIL has a service dog (has multiple issues including Parkinson's) as does my future SIL.
DF and I were at our local market yesterday and they now have a sign at the door stating their no pets policy and that they may ask for documentation is you have a service animal.
Looks like after reading the federal law that they're not even allowed to ask for documentation. Not to mention our state does not issue a license or documents. DF posted something on the store FB page that they might want to rethink unless of course they're trying to get sued. So what do you think?
-- Edited by Mary Zombie on Monday 23rd of May 2016 09:12:05 AM
I think they should have to show documentation. Lots of people say their pets are service dogs--when they aren't.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Having visible documentation would be ideal but in states that don't issue documentation is it ok for someone to be harassed? I have a problem with having to explain my medical situation to strangers ya know? It's a bit of a conundrum for sure.
I think that there should be some tag that identifies. The problem is Aholes who pretend their dog is a service dog when they are not. You aren't being harrassed to show legitimacy. If dogs are not welcome in general, then yes, there is nothing wrong with having to produce a card , ID or some type of tag.
The dog gets an annual and shots once a year. Just make note it's a service animal, pay $2 for an orange tag or something.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Not in all states. Like my state. You can get the vest on Amazon. Though for me it's pretty obvious if a dog is not a service dog depending on its behavior.
I don't like the vest or scarf idea. Too easy to imitate that. A bit harder if it's a tag with an ID # or something. However, jerks are gonna be jerks but that at least might stop the occasional jerk versus the professional jerk.
That's why I think a tag from the vet would be better.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Sounds like something offered on the street, IYKWIM.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Well I can see both sides but again the statute says they are not allowed to demand documentation. And if the dog is behaving as a service dog should there's really no reason for it.
Now if the dog is acting up yeah ask away. I had to speak to someone at work once because the service dog kept barking. It had apparently been traumatized recently by another dog attacking it and they were retraining.
A woman on another board brags about how she gets away with her "service dog." It's not a service dog. She doesn't like to leave it at home or crated, so she bought a service dog vest online and she takes the dog with her. Anyone says anything about it she says she's going to sue and she's get freebies. Gift certificates for stores and restaurants, and her biggest prize was two round trip tickets from the airline when they asked her about the dog. Business are so afraid of being sued they give in. Examples like her is why it gives the people that really need the dog a bad name.
A woman on another board brags about how she gets away with her "service dog." It's not a service dog. She doesn't like to leave it at home or crated, so she bought a service dog vest online and she takes the dog with her. Anyone says anything about it she says she's going to sue and she's get freebies. Gift certificates for stores and restaurants, and her biggest prize was two round trip tickets from the airline when they asked her about the dog. Business are so afraid of being sued they give in. Examples like her is why it gives the people that really need the dog a bad name.
People like that are the ones who make it hard for those who are legitimate service dogs. A government issued tag would help a lot.
A woman on another board brags about how she gets away with her "service dog." It's not a service dog. She doesn't like to leave it at home or crated, so she bought a service dog vest online and she takes the dog with her. Anyone says anything about it she says she's going to sue and she's get freebies. Gift certificates for stores and restaurants, and her biggest prize was two round trip tickets from the airline when they asked her about the dog. Business are so afraid of being sued they give in. Examples like her is why it gives the people that really need the dog a bad name.
People like that are the ones who make it hard for those who are legitimate service dogs. A government issued tag would help a lot.
If we can't even get the government to decide who is a boy and who is a girl, you think they would be able to decide if an animal is a service animal or not?
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
A woman on another board brags about how she gets away with her "service dog." It's not a service dog. She doesn't like to leave it at home or crated, so she bought a service dog vest online and she takes the dog with her. Anyone says anything about it she says she's going to sue and she's get freebies. Gift certificates for stores and restaurants, and her biggest prize was two round trip tickets from the airline when they asked her about the dog. Business are so afraid of being sued they give in. Examples like her is why it gives the people that really need the dog a bad name.
That is so despicable. Makes me think of the Seinfeld episode where George pretends to be handicapped so he can use his work's good bathroom
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Was it a bad day?
Or was it a bad five minutes that you milked all day?
Without some way of knowing it is, the dog could be lost, taken to the shelter, or even killed if something happened to the owner.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
I can't remember where I saw it but it was on a tv show about flying.
A person had their cat with them and called it their emotional "service" pet and said they had to fly with the cat in their arms.
How is that any more harrassment than the thousand other things we all have to do? Show your ID and car registration. Show you driver's licence. Show your ticket at the gate. On and on.
When the dog is behaving appropriately and has a vest then there's no reason to ask the person. IMO
My dog behaves. But, that doesn't mean i can put a vest on her and take her anywhere I please. The problem again is not the law abiding person. It is the idiots who are trying to get away with something.
If all states start issuing a license or tag that would be great but in the meanwhile I think signs like the one I saw potentially opens the place up to lawsuits. Just saying
