TOTALLY GEEKED!

Average stats of rapes - only 36% are reported. Which means that 2/3 of rapes are unreported. And imagine against someone who was thought to be a well-respected person of the community. Many victims remain around their attacker. People who need their jobs. People who are ashamed to report it. Peopl who are too young and scared. Date rape victims.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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jlbear71 wrote:

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Average stats of rapes - only 36% are reported. Which means that 2/3 of rapes are unreported. And imagine against someone who was thought to be a well-respected person of the community. Many victims remain around their attacker. People who need their jobs. People who are ashamed to report it. Peopl who are too young and scared. Date rape victims.

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 And people who have no qualms about going to a lawyer and filing a lawsuit, but want money rather than justice, leaving the criminal - if he is one - free to do it to others.

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 Sometimes, it's about getting word out there.  Just because you press sexual assault/rape charges doesn't mean he will go to jail - or not be free, or whatever.  He might even still have access to the victim.

The police can't do anything without physical evidence or an eyewitness.  There is nothing from 30 years ago (and see my post on why it took 30 years) so there cannot be charges pressed.  The only other thing to do is a civil suit.  Especially when there are multiple complainants.

No, the facts are she files a civil suit AFTER Bruce Caster dropped the investigation in 2005. The case was re-opened and criminal charges were filed in December 2015

THIS is why the original investigation was dropped -

Constand concedes she was 'mistaken' in statements
Constand testimony was not without issues. Defense attorneys have argued that their relationship was consensual, and they pointed out that Constand's initial statements to police in January 2005 changed several times compared to her later testimony.
For example, Constand initially told police that the assault occurred at Cosby's house on March 16, 2004, after a dinner with Cosby and other friends. However, she conceded in testimony that the assault occurred on a different date and was not after a dinner.
"I was mistaken," Constand said. "It was a lot of confusion putting a lot of dates together."
In addition, Constand told investigators that she did not spend time alone with Cosby prior to the alleged assault, and that she did not have contact with him afterward.
But she admitted on the stand that she had been alone with Cosby on previous occasions, and even visited him in his hotel room at the Foxwoods Resort Casino in Mashantucket, Connecticut.
Constand was in touch with him after the assault, too. Phone records showed they made a total of 72 phone calls, but Constand said those calls were primarily to update Cosby on the Temple women's basketball team, which was her job. And in August 2004, she asked Cosby's representatives for tickets for her and her family to Cosby's stand-up show in Toronto, which she did not initially tell police.
"I was really nervous and wasn't able to recall every particular moment that I had seen Mr. Cosby in order of dates," she explained.

So, the district attorney in this case actually ran his campaign on the promise to prosecute Bill Cosby. But, I think the facts in this case are very questionable, and this is the case he is on trial for.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Tignanello wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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jlbear71 wrote:

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Average stats of rapes - only 36% are reported. Which means that 2/3 of rapes are unreported. And imagine against someone who was thought to be a well-respected person of the community. Many victims remain around their attacker. People who need their jobs. People who are ashamed to report it. Peopl who are too young and scared. Date rape victims.

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 And people who have no qualms about going to a lawyer and filing a lawsuit, but want money rather than justice, leaving the criminal - if he is one - free to do it to others.

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 Sometimes, it's about getting word out there.  Just because you press sexual assault/rape charges doesn't mean he will go to jail - or not be free, or whatever.  He might even still have access to the victim.

The police can't do anything without physical evidence or an eyewitness.  There is nothing from 30 years ago (and see my post on why it took 30 years) so there cannot be charges pressed.  The only other thing to do is a civil suit.  Especially when there are multiple complainants.

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 I think you are not understanding the facts - this alledgedly happened on 2004, not 30 years ago.  She filed a CIVIL lawsuit for money in 2005 along with other women, and took the money in exchange for silence.  And then 12 years later, a month before the statute of limitations ran, she had criminal charges filed.  So, for TWELVE years, if what she said is true, she stayed silent about a serial rapist, allowing him to remain free to rape others for MONEY.  She's scum either way. 

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 I'm referring to a number of the complainants & witnesses.  Tamara Green - 1970s. Barbara Bowman - 1985.  Beth Ferrier - 1984. Joan Tarshis - 1969.  Janice Dickinson - 1982.  Theresa Seregniese (?) - 1976. Beverly Johnson - mid-80s. Lili Bernard & Sammie Mays - mid-80s. Carla Ferrigno - 1967.  Kristina Rhule - 1965. 

And an additional 11 women throughout the 70s and 80s.  Only (that I can find) came forward at the time and no charges were filed.  Let's look back at how rape/sexual assault was treated during the 60s, 70s, and 80s and then ask ourselves why they didn't just come forward then and why did they wait 30 years.

http://www.businessinsider.com/andrea-constand-bill-cosby-trial-2017-6

-- Edited by Tignanello on Tuesday 13th of June 2017 01:19:20 AM

Yes - they came forward because the accusation had to be substantiated. If not criminally, than publicly. Now he can't do it to anyone else.

I have no doubt Bill Cosby is a creep, a cheater, and all sorts of horrible. But the facts of this case are weak, and if he is found not guilty - who does that vindicate?

I honestly can't get past the numerous phone calls to him after the fact, with talks lasting a long time - not short little calls. And the fact that she requested tickets to his stand up show after she says it happened. And she went to visit him at a hotel. That screams woman scorned to me. Hell hath no fury and all.



What I also find interesting is that none of the main web pages have anything about this trial in their headlines.

The longer this takes, I'm thinking hung jury.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Am I psychic? 10 minutes after I posted that, the jury sent a note to the judge that they are deadlocked and can't reach a decision. He told them to keep trying.

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 I thought of you and laughed when the news alert popped up on my phone. 

Can't say I'm surprised it's a hung jury (so far anyway).

I understand the judge is not accepting a hung jury in his case.

FNW wrote:

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I understand the judge is not accepting a hung jury in his case.

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 This goes on much longer, he's not going to have a choice. 

Tignanello wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Tignanello wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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I have no doubt Bill Cosby is a creep, a cheater, and all sorts of horrible. But the facts of this case are weak, and if he is found not guilty - who does that vindicate?

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 The same people who were vindicated when OJ was found not guilty, I guess.

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 Not hardly the same.  People were dead with OJ - there was definitely a guilty party.  

These are all "he said, she said" cases, and if the jury finds him not guilty, that means the jury didn't believe the women or that a sexual assault occurred. 

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 Technically, yes.  There was a guilty party but it wasn't OJ (found guilty).  So, questions stands.  Even if the person we all know is guilty is not found guilty, who does it vindicate?

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 You KNOW that?  Were you there?  

 

Here's the problem.  I think rape requires intent.  I think a man could think if you came to his house or hotel room alone at night, willingly took drugs or drank alcohol, and then didn't say no to sex, that he could reasonably think you are a willing participant.  

It would be a very different situation if he drugged you without your knowledge, and then took you back to his home or hotel room and had sex with you.  That's rape without question.  But putting yourself in that situation willingly and not saying no? That's just not that simple. 

 

 

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Tignanello wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Tignanello wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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I have no doubt Bill Cosby is a creep, a cheater, and all sorts of horrible. But the facts of this case are weak, and if he is found not guilty - who does that vindicate?

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 The same people who were vindicated when OJ was found not guilty, I guess.

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 Not hardly the same.  People were dead with OJ - there was definitely a guilty party.  

These are all "he said, she said" cases, and if the jury finds him not guilty, that means the jury didn't believe the women or that a sexual assault occurred. 

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 Technically, yes.  There was a guilty party but it wasn't OJ (found guilty).  So, questions stands.  Even if the person we all know is guilty is not found guilty, who does it vindicate?

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 You KNOW that?  Were you there?  

 

Here's the problem.  I think rape requires intent.  I think a man could think if you came to his house or hotel room alone at night, willingly took drugs or drank alcohol, and then didn't say no to sex, that he could reasonably think you are a willing participant.  

It would be a very different situation if he drugged you without your knowledge, and then took you back to his home or hotel room and had sex with you.  That's rape without question.  But putting yourself in that situation willingly and not saying no? That's just not that simple. 

 

 

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 RE: bolded and large

Legally, this is still considered rape.  At least it is here.

 

If I am not a conscious or active participant, I cannot legally give my consent. Yes, it happened to me. I was with someone when I got drunk and passed out. I was a willing participant up until I was no longer conscious. Other party continued until he was finished. That is still considered rape legally. Period. He should have stopped once I was unconscious. He did not.

I chose to not pursue it. I was ashamed. I felt it was my fault. I stayed with him for another year and a half. And yes, I was raped. It was not violent. It was not against my will (I had none at that moment). But I was no longer an active participant. And there were other nonconsensual incidents that did not involve alcohol on my part. It was an abusive relationship towards me.

So, unless you have been there, don't go spouting that you would not have contact with your attacker after the incident.

Yes, I waited to tell my story until after the verdict, or lack thereof.

Vette,

I am sorry you deleted. I did not think it was graphic.

But that is the other side of the coin. People do not talk about it. They are afraid. They are ashamed. They feel at fault. They want to hide it. They think no one will believe them. And guess what, they are right. People blame the victim. You did not say no. You took the (pills, alcohol, whatever) willingly. Sometimes it was not willingly, it was put in a drink. You wore a short skirt. You were asking for it.

The relationship I was in at the time, while abusive, was not really violent. Well, it was on a few occasions but it was more of a mental abuse. And I was "in love" and thought he would change. Every situationn is different.

But being willing to go to a point does not mean consent. Being unable to continue does not mean consent. Not saying no does not mean consent.

jlbear71 wrote:

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Vette,

I am sorry you deleted. I did not think it was graphic.

But that is the other side of the coin. People do not talk about it. They are afraid. They are ashamed. They feel at fault. They want to hide it. They think no one will believe them. And guess what, they are right. People blame the victim. You did not say no. You took the (pills, alcohol, whatever) willingly. Sometimes it was not willingly, it was put in a drink. You wore a short skirt. You were asking for it.

The relationship I was in at the time, while abusive, was not really violent. Well, it was on a few occasions but it was more of a mental abuse. And I was "in love" and thought he would change. Every situationn is different.

But being willing to go to a point does not mean consent. Being unable to continue does not mean consent.

Not saying no does not mean consent.

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 And you don't have to say "let's have sex" to consent.  Your actions can show consent.  

Lawyerlady wrote:

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jlbear71 wrote:

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Vette,

I am sorry you deleted. I did not think it was graphic.

But that is the other side of the coin. People do not talk about it. They are afraid. They are ashamed. They feel at fault. They want to hide it. They think no one will believe them. And guess what, they are right. People blame the victim. You did not say no. You took the (pills, alcohol, whatever) willingly. Sometimes it was not willingly, it was put in a drink. You wore a short skirt. You were asking for it.

The relationship I was in at the time, while abusive, was not really violent. Well, it was on a few occasions but it was more of a mental abuse. And I was "in love" and thought he would change. Every situationn is different.

But being willing to go to a point does not mean consent. Being unable to continue does not mean consent.

Not saying no does not mean consent.

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 And you don't have to say "let's have sex" to consent.  Your actions can show consent.  

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 Until they dont.  I was more than ready and willing to be a particpant in consenual sex when my situation occured.  Then I was no longer conscious.  That is where it should have stopped.  Was I raped?  According to your words, no I was not.  But legally, I was.  My actions were very, very willing.  Then I was passed out.  He continued.  That is still legally sexual assault.

That particular time? I don't know. Probably not. There were times with that person I was not a willing participant and continued anyway without refusal. But I told him no and he continued. I stopped putting up a fight.

But you know, maybe you are right. Maybe I was not raped, I just was not willing enough to stay conscious to say yes or no.

Deleted many more words that were not polite and would get me banned. You know, I hope you never have to go thru this nor your daughters. I hope that IF if happens, they would have people who would believe them, back them. That they have people they could trust going to.

That judgement is why I did not tell my story before. Yes, you are judging. You are blaming me. Maybe not directly, but that is classic modern rape culture you are displaying.

jlbear71 wrote:

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That particular time? I don't know. Probably not. There were times with that person I was not a willing participant and continued anyway without refusal. But I told him no and he continued. I stopped putting up a fight.

But you know, maybe you are right. Maybe I was not raped, I just was not willing enough to stay conscious to say yes or no.

Deleted many more words that were not polite and would get me banned. You know, I hope you never have to go thru this nor your daughters. I hope that IF if happens, they would have people who would believe them, back them. That they have people they could trust going to.

That judgement is why I did not tell my story before. Yes, you are judging. You are blaming me. Maybe not directly, but that is classic modern rape culture you are displaying.

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 JLB, you were abused.  I understand the whole life style of that and how tough it is to walk away.  but you did walk away eventually.  Do you talk to that abuser now? Do you ever want to see him again?  My guess is no you don't.  I am not judging you, I've been there. I am not invalidating your stance. I will tell you though I was raped, by a stranger who unbeknownst to me had been stalking me.  So I guess there are many perspectives on this issue, that is all I am saying.

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

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jlbear71 wrote:

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That particular time? I don't know. Probably not. There were times with that person I was not a willing participant and continued anyway without refusal. But I told him no and he continued. I stopped putting up a fight.

But you know, maybe you are right. Maybe I was not raped, I just was not willing enough to stay conscious to say yes or no.

Deleted many more words that were not polite and would get me banned. You know, I hope you never have to go thru this nor your daughters. I hope that IF if happens, they would have people who would believe them, back them. That they have people they could trust going to.

That judgement is why I did not tell my story before. Yes, you are judging. You are blaming me. Maybe not directly, but that is classic modern rape culture you are displaying.

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 JLB, you were abused.  I understand the whole life style of that and how tough it is to walk away.  but you did walk away eventually.  Do you talk to that abuser now? Do you ever want to see him again?  My guess is no you don't.  I am not judging you, I've been there. I am not invalidating your stance. I will tell you though I was raped, by a stranger who unbeknownst to me had been stalking me.  So I guess there are many perspectives on this issue, that is all I am saying.

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IKWTDS, you understand what I mean when it is a club that nobody wants to belong to.  I know they are not the right words or even right analogy to use.

 Yes, I have seen him since.  Both when I was prepared (school reunion) and when I was not.  The insane rage that was in me when I saw him when I was unprepared was unreal.  Now, I think I would be indifferent to him.  Life has not been kind to him.  (Google and mutual people)  Karma definitely kicked in.  I have overcome the issues that came with what happened.  I am at peace with me.  I forgave myself and my own involvement. Basically, I have moved past what happened to me.  

We went to high school together and were together during our senior year.  I was with him for 2.5 years from age 17-19. He stalked me during the last 6 months of our relationship as well as for about 10 months after.  There were confrontations after I ended the relationship.  I had an exit plan and a place to run to.  My parents knew I might disappear and they were okay with it.  Well, as okay as they could be knowing I would be safe. I also had valid offers from people to make him disappear forever (and they would have).  It is also one of the reasons I will not be going back to any reunions.

Found guilty on one count.

www.bostonherald.com/news/national/2018/04/bill_cosby_convicted_of_sexually_assaulting_woman

Bill Cosby convicted of sexually assaulting woman
Associated Press Thursday, April 26, 2018
COMMENTS
NORRISTOWN, Pa. — Bill Cosby has been convicted of drugging and molesting a woman in the first big celebrity trial of the #MeToo era.

A jury outside Philadelphia convicted the "Cosby Show" star of three counts of aggravated indecent assault on Thursday. The guilty verdict came less than a year after another jury deadlocked on the charges.

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Bill Cosby arrives for his sexual assault trial, Wednesday, April 25, 2018, at the Montgomery County Courthouse in Norristown, Pa. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

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Bill Cosby departs after his sexual assault retrial, Monday, April 23, 2018, at the Montgomery County Courthouse in Norristown, Pa. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)

Jury in Bill Cosby case to begin deliberating on Wednesday
Cosby was charged with violating Temple University employee Andrea Constand at his suburban Philadelphia home in 2004. His lawyer called Constand a "con artist" who leveled false accusations against Cosby so she could sue him.

Cosby could get up to 10 years in prison on each of the counts.

Dozens of women have come forward in recent years to say he drugged and assaulted them. Five of the other accusers testified against him at the retrial.

The Associated Press does not typically identify people who say they are victims of sexual assault unless they grant permission. Constand has done so.