TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Zoo Shoots Gorilla After Child Falls In

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I was discussing this with my co-worker today.

The video we saw looked like, yes, the gorilla was protecting the child. He picked him up from the water & pulled his pants up.

I'm not sure how much time elapsed from that moment until the two were crouched in a corner.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Why couldn't they tranquilize him?

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

They said it would take too long for a tranquilizer to kick in.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
I was discussing this with my co-worker today.

The video we saw looked like, yes, the gorilla was protecting the child. He picked him up from the water & pulled his pants up.

I'm not sure how much time elapsed from that moment until the two were crouched in a corner.

flan

Did you watch the video? He was dragging the child around underwater by his arm. That might be OK for a baby gorilla and maybe he was being protective, but that alone could have killed the boy. Maybe it's time to not let small kids into these kinds of exhibits if people are going to be so stupid. Watch your kid. But yes, a tranquilizer takes time. Like when you get a shot, it doesn't work instantaneously but can take 15 or 20 min. So, they didn't know how much time they had or what the gorilla would do next. And, you don't know how the gorilla would behave if it was sedated and started feeling the effects. It's a wild animal and unpredictable.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I was discussing this with my co-worker today.

The video we saw looked like, yes, the gorilla was protecting the child. He picked him up from the water & pulled his pants up.

I'm not sure how much time elapsed from that moment until the two were crouched in a corner.

flan
Did you watch the video? He was dragging the child around underwater by his arm. That might be OK for a baby gorilla and maybe he was being protective, but that alone could have killed the boy. Maybe it's time to not let small kids into these kinds of exhibits if people are going to be so stupid. Watch your kid. But yes, a tranquilizer takes time. Like when you get a shot, it doesn't work instantaneously but can take 15 or 20 min. So, they didn't know how much time they had or what the gorilla would do next. And, you don't know how the gorilla would behave if it was sedated and started feeling the effects. It's a wild animal and unpredictable.

That was not on the video we watched.

In 38 years, apparently no one has gotten into that enclosure.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

....d fell into the gorilla exhibit's moat before he was dragged by Harambe in the water for about 10 minutes.

Lindley · Guru

They didn't show the whole video. The gorilla was swinging the child against the wall and like lady ga ga said they weren't sure how long the tranquilizer would take and made the decision to save the child. The little boy is in the hospital. I feel bad that the gorilla was put down because most likely because of parent negligence but even the best parents has kids that get by them.

I'm glad the child was saved.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I disagree that even the best parent has kids that get by them. This isn't the mall. If your kid can't behave, and you know they are a rascal, don't bring them! Or put him in a stroller and don't let him out. It's unacceptable. Your job as a parent is to keep your child out of harm. These parents failed at that. Period. It's their fault. I think the zoo should sue them!

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

And I say that as a parent who's child escaped from the house at age 18 months. But I learned from that moment and never, ever, let her out of my sight in public after that. And if I thought we wouldn't be able to control her, we didn't go. We stayed home from a water park once when all our friends were going because I knew she wouldn't be able to listen. Sometimes, you do things like that to keep your child safe.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

And this was a rare animal brought in for breeding purposes, to help an endangered species.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I found this comment on another site:

"The boy, 4, was released unhurt from a Cincinnati hospital Saturday."

He was UNHURT after all that?

flan

Lindley · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
And I say that as a parent who's child escaped from the house at age 18 months. But I learned from that moment and never, ever, let her out of my sight in public after that. And if I thought we wouldn't be able to control her, we didn't go. We stayed home from a water park once when all our friends were going because I knew she wouldn't be able to listen. Sometimes, you do things like that to keep your child safe.

I understand what you are saying, I was just giving her the benefit of the doubt. I'm glad the child is unhurt.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

Am I the only one wondering why the rails have such big gaps that a four year old could squeeze through?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

VetteGirl wrote:
Am I the only one wondering why the rails have such big gaps that a four year old could squeeze through?

Those are not the only rails - those are more of s visual deterrent to let you know where the boundaries are. There are those, plus big thick hedges, then another fence with iron bars and then the moat - a total of 4 barriers. That's what I read on another site.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I am not sure how many barriers there were but, indeed, there were several. And this was no "accident". Witnesses said the child kept telling his mother he wanted to "climb the fence to see the gorillas". Umm, if your child is SAYING they are going to run into a street do you leave them on the curb and walk away? I sure as hell would not. My child would have been glued to my side. I wouldn't have listened to him say he wanted to climb the fence to see the gorilla and then turn my back on him. Not at four. No way.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

There is a petition circulating around the internet to hold the parents responsible. Of course that will go no where but the 90K signatures on it shows what the opinion is of many people.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, the parent was actually heard saying "No, no you can't go in there". So, it might be harder charge them than you think.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well, the parent was actually heard saying "No, no you can't go in there". So, it might be harder charge them than you think.

I think that would actually make it easier. She KNEW what he was going to try to do. Why didn't she stop him?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

She will say she turned her back for a minute to attend the other children and he was gone. Not saying they should or shouldn't charge her. I don't really know. I don't think there is enough info here to go on and i would have to see what kind of obstacles it takes to get in there.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
She will say she turned her back for a minute to attend the other children and he was gone. Not saying they should or shouldn't charge her. I don't really know. I don't think there is enough info here to go on and i would have to see what kind of obstacles it takes to get in there.

Yeah, this is the kind of story where people can easily jump to conclusions based on insufficient data. But the fact that no one has gotten into the gorilla pen in 38 years is telling.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

That's true. But, small children can and have gotten into all kinds of situations.

FNW · Guru

It's no fun taking small children to places like that without someone else there to help. I've done it, but I only had two to keep an eye (and strong grip) on. Both wanting to go in different directions, etc. It's hard. She should not have taken them to the zoo by herself.

Still, once that kid got out of the hospital, I would have given him an epic spanking, I would have been so pissed at him for climbing into that cage. As for the gorilla, who knows what it would have done. If the zoo hadn't shot him, they would be facing retaliation for allowing a child to continue to be mauled by that animal. Human life over an animal's, as it should be.

A tragic situation, perpetrated by a rebellious 4 year old who won't take "no" for an answer. As a mother who fights constantly with her boys over their "but I just want" and the rules they are forced to obey (most times refusing to obey), I feel for everyone in this situation, and refuse to judge.

I often times wonder what they are teaching them in school, or if it's a product of society as a whole that makes kids these days think their wants and needs are so much more important than rules that are in place for a reason. I see it at home, daily. Then I get the "you hurt my feelings" bit. Well, BFD, these are the rules, shove it.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

This isn't the school's fault! This boy was 4 - likely he has not started school yet!

And if you have too many kids to keep an eye on, don't go to the zoo. Period. It's not that difficult. At the age of 4, he can be in a stroller, buckled in, and it is much easier to keep an eye on him that way. If he refuses, he doesn't get to go.

I am sick of people making excuses for parents when their children have crappy behavior. It is the JOB of the parent to keep their children safe. She failed miserably at that job. She deserves to be punished for it. Sorry. Yeah it's harsh, but today it's a gorilla enclosure and tomorrow it's your house he is entering without permission.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I never used leashes with either of my kids, but this mother should know how her child acts. She failed.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I used a leash with my oldest son. He was a runner. He would literally just take off running. I was afraid he might run into traffic and so forth so i used a harness on him for his safety.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Not going is always an option too. Leave him with a sitter while everyone else goes. He can't behave so he stays home. Or else everyone stays home. Nothing is a command performance. You don't HAVE to go.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes, sometimes your child isn't ready for certain things. However, you do need to take your children out in public because if you don't, how can you expect them to learn as well? I mean, there was one time we went out for lunch and immediately, my younger son started pitching a fit. The waitress came and brought us water, and as soon as she delivered the glasses, we just had to get up and leave. That was a learning experience. You can't teach if you aren't ever out anywhere.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Oh I agree. But also, nothing teaches a child to behave like missing out on an experience because of their bad behavior.

You won't listen to me at the pool? Fine. You don't get to go. That kid will learn that not going to the pool sucks and will listen better the next time.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Yes, sometimes your child isn't ready for certain things. However, you do need to take your children out in public because if you don't, how can you expect them to learn as well? I mean, there was one time we went out for lunch and immediately, my younger son started pitching a fit. The waitress came and brought us water, and as soon as she delivered the glasses, we just had to get up and leave. That was a learning experience. You can't teach if you aren't ever out anywhere.

But I'm sure this mother knew how her son behaved. And, in this case, it's not as easy as leaving a restaurant.

The gorilla was brought in as a breeder, and now all that time has been wasted.

Harambe spent about 16 years at the Gladys Porter Zoo before being moved to Cincinnati for breeding purposes in September 2014, the gorilla’s former caretaker said. “He was cute, little and playful,” he recalled. “He was an interesting little character—very intelligent and very nurturing to his brothers and sisters.”

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

No, i wasn't saying it was the same thing just making a point.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I'm copying this from another message board because it gives details about the specific exhibit:

The truly infuriating thing is - this is not an easy enclosure to get into, I have been there many times. A tall concrete wall with solid steel bars at an angle plus the moat are there to keep the gorillas safe. There are gradual steps behind angling the other way, so they cannot be used to climb over, and allow crowds to see in easily are there. And usually a volunteer for answering questions is in the area, as it is one of the more popular exhibits. I can't imagine a small child crawling thru easily, someone had to have picked him up and had him standing or sitting on the concrete wall for him to then be able to crawl thru the upper railing.

flan

FNW · Guru

I tried that but with two, they kept crossing over getting tangled up. #1 was a runner, too. Still is, LOL.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Didn't something like this happen before? A kid fell in and the gorilla just sat there with him stroking his back? The kid was older and was unconscious. They were able to get that kid out safely.

And it seems there have been other times kids have gotten into the enclosures.

And animals getting out. Like that tiger.

Seems some changes in how the enclosures are made is in order.

As for leashes, I absolutely used them. Caitlyn was a runner. I had a double stroller and a leash. The kid walking was on the leash, especially in places like this.

It seems to me, there is a lot of blame to go around.

chef · Guru

I think a lot could've been done that didn't include killing the gorilla. Distracting the gorilla to get it away from the child for starters.

Also, the attitude that the mother should've been able to stop the child no matter what is a bit haughty. Children are not robots. They have a mind of their own. They do go parent deaf. Without being there and having the benefit of watching her behavior, I will not judge her. What if the child broke and ran? Maybe she couldn't run as fast. And strollers aren't always a roadblock for the child. Once I saw a child scoot down in the stroller until his feet hit the ground then he started walking while still being buckled into the stroller. I didn't think such a thing was possible. Also, the boy could've known how to unbuckle the buckles on the stroller.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Really? You have no clue what that gorilla will do. In a split second that kid is dead.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Really? You have no clue what that gorilla will do. In a split second that kid is dead.

And, on the other hand, if he had wanted to harm the child, the boy would be dead.

flan

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

chef wrote:
I think a lot could've been done that didn't include killing the gorilla. Distracting the gorilla to get it away from the child for starters.

Also, the attitude that the mother should've been able to stop the child no matter what is a bit haughty. Children are not robots. They have a mind of their own. They do go parent deaf. Without being there and having the benefit of watching her behavior, I will not judge her. What if the child broke and ran? Maybe she couldn't run as fast. And strollers aren't always a roadblock for the child. Once I saw a child scoot down in the stroller until his feet hit the ground then he started walking while still being buckled into the stroller. I didn't think such a thing was possible. Also, the boy could've known how to unbuckle the buckles on the stroller.

Sorry, gotta disagree here. Witnesses said the boy kept saying over and over he was going to climb the fence to see the gorilla. They also say the mom turned her back on him. Accidents happen. If your son was threatening to jump in a pool would you then turn your back on him giving him the chance to do it? I highly doubt.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Really? You have no clue what that gorilla will do. In a split second that kid is dead.
And, on the other hand, if he had wanted to harm the child, the boy would be dead.
flan

So are u recommending a wait and see approach? The gorilla could easily unintentionally kill the boy as well.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

It is a parent's primary job to keep their child safe. Period. She failed at that job. I most definitely WILL judge her for that.

Yes, kids are quick and they are strong. But if your 4 year old is smarter than you, you are royally screwed when that kid is a teenager. There is NO excuse for allowing this to happen. And yes, she allowed it. If she didn't prevent it, she allowed it. If he is not well behaved enough to listen, then it is her job to physically ensure he stays here he is supposed to. And if she can't, she should never have taken him to the zoo. It is not some God given right to go to the zoo. Children who can listen and behave get to go to the zoo. Children who cannot be trusted to stay out of the frickin gorilla habitat have no business being at the zoo if their parent cannot control them.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Not going is always an option too. Leave him with a sitter while everyone else goes. He can't behave so he stays home. Or else everyone stays home. Nothing is a command performance. You don't HAVE to go.

How would she possibly know that beforehand?

This was not predictable. Children don't always do what you tell them to. A hundred things could have gone differently to prevent this outcome--but it is what it is. Once he was in there--they had no choice.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Not going is always an option too. Leave him with a sitter while everyone else goes. He can't behave so he stays home. Or else everyone stays home. Nothing is a command performance. You don't HAVE to go.
How would she possibly know that beforehand?

This was not predictable. Children don't always do what you tell them to. A hundred things could have gone differently to prevent this outcome--but it is what it is. Once he was in there--they had no choice.

How could the mother possibly KNOW that her child was headstrong and didn't listen to her?

Did you just ask that?

flan

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Not going is always an option too. Leave him with a sitter while everyone else goes. He can't behave so he stays home. Or else everyone stays home. Nothing is a command performance. You don't HAVE to go.
How would she possibly know that beforehand?

This was not predictable. Children don't always do what you tell them to. A hundred things could have gone differently to prevent this outcome--but it is what it is. Once he was in there--they had no choice.
How could the mother possibly KNOW that her child was headstrong and didn't listen to her?
Did you just ask that?
flan

Oh whatever. NO child listens perfectly 100% of the time. That's absurd.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Not going is always an option too. Leave him with a sitter while everyone else goes. He can't behave so he stays home. Or else everyone stays home. Nothing is a command performance. You don't HAVE to go.
How would she possibly know that beforehand?

This was not predictable. Children don't always do what you tell them to. A hundred things could have gone differently to prevent this outcome--but it is what it is. Once he was in there--they had no choice.
How could the mother possibly KNOW that her child was headstrong and didn't listen to her?
Did you just ask that?
flan
Oh whatever. NO child listens perfectly 100% of the time. That's absurd.

But some listen more than others. A mother should KNOW her own child.

And the kid actually ANNOUNCED his intention.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

Some do listen more than others--that doesn't mean every parent can predict with 100% accuracy the times that they might not.

Yes, he said he wanted to go into the water--and she told him no. In the frickin' history of the zoo it had never happened. To say it was somehow predictable in this particular instance by ANYONE is beyond foolish.

NAOW · Vette's SS

I'm not going to vilify the parents. It's easy to speculate what the mom should have done but sometimes you over/under estimate your kid, yourself, or a situation. Usually it's nothing more than a learning experience, unfortunately this time it was tragic.

-- Edited by NAOW on Monday 30th of May 2016 08:29:36 PM

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

It is a parents job to raise their child to listen. No, every child does not listen 100% of the time. But don't you remember your mom yelling at you in THAT voice? The voice that made kids stop for a mile around and look to see if their mom was talking? You know the voice... If you have not cultivated that skill in yourself and in your child by the age of 4, you are royally screwed when that child is a teenager. At the age of four, she should be able to yell his name and the word "Freeze!" and that kid should stop in his tracks. And if she has not, she should know it and keep that child out of harm.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Monday 30th of May 2016 08:50:38 PM

huskerbb · Guru

We don't know she had that opportunity at that moment.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

huskerbb wrote:
We don't know she had that opportunity at that moment.

Not only that, but a trip like the zoo is exciting and different and a kid is usually more hyper and less inclined to listen

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
It is a parents job to raise their child to listen. No, every child does not listen 100% of the time. But don't you remember your mom yelling at you in THAT voice? The voice that made kids stop for a mile around and look to see if their mom was talking? You know the voice... If you have not cultivated that skill in yourself and in your child by the age of 4, you are royally screwed when that child is a teenager. At the age of four, she should be able to yell his name and the word "Freeze!" and that kid should stop in his tracks. And if she has not, she should know it and keep that child out of harm.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Monday 30th of May 2016 08:50:38 PM

So the 4 yr old should always listen but not the HS Junior?

TOTALLY GEEKED!

Fury at 'neglectful' parents of boy who ASKED to play in gorilla's pen before crawling in - forcing zoo to shoot silverback dead while it 'protected' the child