TOTALLY GEEKED!

huskerbb · Guru

RE: Zoo Shoots Gorilla After Child Falls In

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I think people have watched too much Star Trek. They think that if you get hit with a tranquilizer that you immediately fall over.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

And, do any of you really think that those who spend their lives working in that Zoo wanted to kill that animal? Of course they didn't.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think the experts at the Zoo were the ones who know best whether this is a situation to shoot or tranquilize. Hitting a gorilla with a dart may anger the gorilla. That split second of an angry gorilla could have been lethal. It is easy for everyone to Monday Morning Quarterback. This was a terrible situation. A human life should always take priority over an animal. Period. They did what they had to do to ensure the safety of that child.

Yes, after a huge parental fail.

flan

burns07 · Guru

agree on the monday morning quarterbacking--we weren't there--fortunately, the child was unhurt

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think the experts at the Zoo were the ones who know best whether this is a situation to shoot or tranquilize. Hitting a gorilla with a dart may anger the gorilla. That split second of an angry gorilla could have been lethal. It is easy for everyone to Monday Morning Quarterback. This was a terrible situation. A human life should always take priority over an animal. Period. They did what they had to do to ensure the safety of that child.
Yes, after a huge parental fail.
flan

Oh ffs. What do you want to do? Make her kids wards of the state?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think the experts at the Zoo were the ones who know best whether this is a situation to shoot or tranquilize. Hitting a gorilla with a dart may anger the gorilla. That split second of an angry gorilla could have been lethal. It is easy for everyone to Monday Morning Quarterback. This was a terrible situation. A human life should always take priority over an animal. Period. They did what they had to do to ensure the safety of that child.
Yes, after a huge parental fail.
flan

Yes. But what does that have to do with the decision. You can argue that it never should have happened in the first place. But, it did. And, we have to deal with the real world flan.

NAOW · Vette's SS

http://www.foreverymom.com/witness-to-cincinnati-zoo-gorilla-death-it-wasnt-the-parents-fault/

An eye witness account of what happened

My family and I decided to go to the zoo yesterday after visiting my neice at Cincinnati Childrens hospital. For those of you that have already heard, there was a terrible accident there yesterday. And since every news media has covered this story, I don’t feel bad telling our side. This was an accident! ! A terrible accident, but just that! My husband’s voice is the voice talking to the child in one of the videos. I was taking a pic of the female gorilla, when my eldest son yells, “what is he doing? ” I looked down, and to my surprise, there was a small child that had apparently, literally “flopped” over the railing, where there was then about 3 feet of ground that the child quickly crawled through! ! I assumed the woman next to me was the mother, getting ready to grab him until she says, “Whose kid is this? ” None of us actually thought he’d go over the nearly 15 foot drop, but he was crawling so fast through the bushes before myself or husband could grab him, he went over!

…the mother was calling for her son. Actually, just prior to him going over, but she couldn’t see him crawling through the bushes! She said “He was right here! I took a pic and his hand was in my back pocket and then gone!” As she could find him nowhere, she lookes to my husband (already over the railing talking to the child) and asks, “Sir, is he wearing green shorts? ” My husband reluctantly had to tell her yes, when she then nearly had a break down! They are both wanting to go over into the 15 foot drop, when I forbade my husband to do so, and attempted to calm the mother by calling 911 and assure her help was on the way. Neither my husband or the mother would have made that jump without breaking something!

…the gorilla did just seem to be protective of the child. It wasn’t until the gorilla became agitated because of the nosey, dramatic, helpless crowd; that the gorilla violently ran with the child! And it was very violent; although I think the gorilla was still trying to protect, we’re taking a 400 lb gorilla throwing a 40 lb toddler around! It was horrific!

The zoo responded very quickly, clearing the area and attempting to save both the child and the gorilla! The right choice was made. Thank God the child survived with non-life threatening, but serious injuries! This was an open exhibit! Which means the only thing separating you from the gorillas, is a 15 ish foot drop and a moat and some bushes! ! This mother was not negligent and the zoo did an awesome job handling the situation! Especially since that had never happened before! ! Thankful for the zoo and their attempts and my thoughts and prayers goes out to this boy, his mother and his family.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

That is very helpful. Thank you! Accidents happen.

Tinydancer · Guru

Well there goes the she was a horribly negligent mother argument... All those "I would never let this happen" comments are only said to make yourself feel better.

FNW · Guru

I would go to zoos and wonder what really kept these animals from escaping, or from keeping the public from entering the animal areas. I remember one time I was at the DC zoo and saw a bunch of kangaroos jumping by and I couldn't even tell there was a fence and I was scared to death I would be trampled, only to realize there was some kind of barrier. I remember going to the alligator farm in California. No fences, just a chain keeping people from stepping forward. But nothing to keep the gators from lunging. The intent of the zoo and the farm was to give the illusion of a natural habitat. Now I'm not an animal lover, nor an animal hater. I don't think wild animals should be made to be pets. I don't think pets (dogs and cats) should be confined and kept in houses. I think that's animal abuse. It's unnatural. For them.

This was an accident, which could have prevented with better caging. Zoos are intended to confine animals, creating as natural environment as possible, giving the public an opportunity to learn about the animals. I think the whole "natural environment" thing has gone too far. Steep hills and bushes is not a suitable or effective barrier. Obviously.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

LOL In the video the mother WAS NOT hysterical. She was just saying very calmly, "Hey, here's Mommy. Mommy is right here. I'm here." The rest of the crowd was insane. All screaming and yelling though.

The zoo did what it had to do. They had to get the child out. They had no choice. And they made the right one. The child's life is more important than the gorilla. But this was totally preventable. This was one eye witness. Other eye witnesses have also said other things. A bunch of people said that the kid was saying telling the mom he wanted to go over the fence. Again, if you're child is threatening to do something then pay attention. The zoo had to do what it had to do but the mom should have been more focused. I don't think she deserves worst mother of the year award or her kids taken away but come on. Almost every day here there's a thread about parenting your children. This is no different.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

And, if you know you're child is fast little bugger, as some children are known to be, and he wants to go in the cage then put the camera down and pay attention.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

I'm just sad that her lack of attention to her child cost the gorilla his life.

NAOW · Vette's SS

Kids say a lot of silly stuff. Just because they say it you don't automatically assume they will do it or that they are actually capable of it. Before this, I would have never thought it was possible for a kid to climb into an animal enclosure by themselves.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Yes, kids do say a lot of stuff. But if my child says, "I'm going to go jump into the pool." I don't think, "Nah, they won't do it. It's just talk." Parents who ignore what their kids say are the ones that end up in situations like this.

Tinydancer · Guru

Sure. Accidents never happen to kids with GOOD mothers.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lexxy wrote:
I'm just sad that her lack of attention to her child cost the gorilla his life.

I am too. That was an endangered species. They were trying to get him to reproduce to rebuild the species. It is sad. The zoo did do what was right given the situation but it's still a sad situation.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

There is a big difference between an accident and your child climbing into a gorilla cage. And technically the total definition of accident is: Something that absolutely cannot be avoided. Sorry, this doesn't fall into that category.

Ohfour · Hooker

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
There is a big difference between an accident and your child climbing into a gorilla cage. And technically the total definition of accident is: Something that absolutely cannot be avoided. Sorry, this doesn't fall into that category.

I don't know where you got YOUR definition of accident, but it is 100% wrong...

accident:

noun

an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I think it is very possible that the mom was somewhat negligent. I mean, you evaluate risk as a parent. You are more relaxed if you are sitting on your patio and your kid is playing in your backyard. If you were standing near the edge of the Grand Canyon, then i would hope that a parent would be more on guard. I would expect a parent to be more on guard in an area where a child could potentially fall or climb over into an animal enclosure. Crawling in with the goats at a petting farm, not such a big deal. Crawling into a lion's den or gorilla habitat, obviously more danger.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think it is very possible that the mom was somewhat negligent. I mean, you evaluate risk as a parent. You are more relaxed if you are sitting on your patio and your kid is playing in your backyard. If you were standing near the edge of the Grand Canyon, then i would hope that a parent would be more on guard. I would expect a parent to be more on guard in an area where a child could potentially fall or climb over into an animal enclosure. Crawling in with the goats at a petting farm, not such a big deal. Crawling into a lion's den or gorilla habitat, obviously more danger.

Honestly, it probably wouldn't have been on my radar. I would have never thought that someone could actually get into a gorilla or lion pit. Much less a 4 year old...

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Those are not the parents. The child was white. There is a FB page based in Cincinnati saying it was a woman named Michelle Gregg who is an administrator at a preschool. She has posted about the incident and they have screen grabs of her posts before she took her page down.
Thanks. I knew about the FB post & that the page had been taken down.
So it was a preschool field trip? (Sorry, I have read a few stories but it's hard getting the facts in this one.)
flan

Pretty sure you're wrong about that. Every single page I can find shows them as the parents...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3618549/PICTURED-four-year-old-boy-fell-zoo-s-gorilla-enclosure-prompting-keepers-shoot-Harambe-creating-revulsion-world.html

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I don't know if THOSE were the parents. But every account I've read says the mother was there. I haven't heard father but maybe he was just not right around there? But every witness I've read said something about the mom.

Ohfour · Hooker

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I don't know if THOSE were the parents. But every account I've read says the mother was there. I haven't heard father but maybe he was just not right around there? But every witness I've read said something about the mom.

The father was not at the zoo...

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I don't know if THOSE were the parents. But every account I've read says the mother was there. I haven't heard father but maybe he was just not right around there? But every witness I've read said something about the mom.
The father was not at the zoo...

Okay. Every witness account I've read said nothing about the father or a preschool trip. Just the mom.

Ohfour · Hooker

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I don't know if THOSE were the parents. But every account I've read says the mother was there. I haven't heard father but maybe he was just not right around there? But every witness I've read said something about the mom.
The father was not at the zoo...
Okay. Every witness account I've read said nothing about the father or a preschool trip. Just the mom.

Yeah, looks like she took the 4 kids to the zoo.

Back on page 2, someone posted a picture of the parents and MM said that was not them. That the kid was white. I don't know what she had been looking at, but the child is clearly black. I was just letting her know that that was indeed a picture of the parents...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I would not call this an accident, per se. However, I don't believe the parents are the only ones at fault. If it's that easy for a child to crawl into an enclosure, that's a safety issue the zoo has to answer for as well.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
I would not call this an accident, per se. However, I don't believe the parents are the only ones at fault. If it's that easy for a child to crawl into an enclosure, that's a safety issue the zoo has to answer for as well.

Absolutely...

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

The police are looking into it and deciding whether criminal charges should be pressed. And flame away but to me that child does look white. He looks like a white child with curly dark hair. Now, there are many light skinned black people out there so when I saw it I wondered if he could possibly be mixed race. That's what his coloring and hair reminds me of. Not sure what race has to do with it though.

Ohfour · Hooker

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
The police are looking into it and deciding whether criminal charges should be pressed. And flame away but to me that child does look white. He looks like a white child with curly dark hair. Now, there are many light skinned black people out there so when I saw it I wondered if he could possibly be mixed race. That's what his coloring and hair reminds me of. Not sure what race has to do with it though.

If you click on the link I posted, you will see the child, the father and the mother.

Race only came about because someone posted a picture of the couple (they are black) and MM said that wasn't them because the child was white.

apple · Guru

The gorilla enclosure should have been surrounded by a secondary barrier between the humans and the animals to prevent exactly this type of incident.

As a parent, I know that I continuously scan for possible danger, I'm not sure how the boy actually got over the guard fence?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
The police are looking into it and deciding whether criminal charges should be pressed. And flame away but to me that child does look white. He looks like a white child with curly dark hair. Now, there are many light skinned black people out there so when I saw it I wondered if he could possibly be mixed race. That's what his coloring and hair reminds me of. Not sure what race has to do with it though.
If you click on the link I posted, you will see the child, the father and the mother.
Race only came about because someone posted a picture of the couple (they are black) and MM said that wasn't them because the child was white.

Oh. I didn't see a link. But maybe I scrolled too fast. The little boy did look white to me though!

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

apple wrote:
The gorilla enclosure should have been surrounded by a secondary barrier between the humans and the animals to prevent exactly this type of incident.

As a parent, I know that I continuously scan for possible danger, I'm not sure how the boy actually got over the guard fence?

There WERE several barriers to keep someone from getting in.

apple · Guru

Deidre Lykins was also at the zoo when she saw the boy drop into the enclosure.
She described how Ms Gregg was calling out for her son and had just been next to him when he disappeared.
Then she had to stop her husband from going in to try and rescue him. But she insists Ms Gregg is not at fault, and wrote on Facebook: 'This mother was not negligent and the zoo did an awesome job handling the situation!
'This was an open exhibit! Which means the only thing separating you from the gorillas, is a 15 ish foot drop and a moat and some bushes!'

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617016/EXCLUSIVE-PICTURES-parents-four-son-fell-zoo-enclosure-sparking-controversial-killing-Harambe-gorilla-emerges-father-lengthy-criminal-history.html

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Those are not the parents. The child was white. There is a FB page based in Cincinnati saying it was a woman named Michelle Gregg who is an administrator at a preschool. She has posted about the incident and they have screen grabs of her posts before she took her page down.
Thanks. I knew about the FB post & that the page had been taken down.
So it was a preschool field trip? (Sorry, I have read a few stories but it's hard getting the facts in this one.)
flan
Pretty sure you're wrong about that. Every single page I can find shows them as the parents...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3618549/PICTURED-four-year-old-boy-fell-zoo-s-gorilla-enclosure-prompting-keepers-shoot-Harambe-creating-revulsion-world.html

The pages I saw yesterday showed a different woman who was clearly white. Today they are all showing this black couple. I stand corrected.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

This is from her Facebook page. He looks like a real angel.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
That is very helpful. Thank you! Accidents happen.

That is ONE account...with LOTS of !!!!!!!!!

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
And, if you know you're child is fast little bugger, as some children are known to be, and he wants to go in the cage then put the camera down and pay attention.

And USE a leash.

Is this the first time she has ever been out in public with the kid?

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I don't know if THOSE were the parents. But every account I've read says the mother was there. I haven't heard father but maybe he was just not right around there? But every witness I've read said something about the mom.
The father was not at the zoo...
Okay. Every witness account I've read said nothing about the father or a preschool trip. Just the mom.

And a few accounts that I read said the father WAS there, yet the mother got all the blame.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:

This is from her Facebook page. He looks like a real angel.

Yeah, THAT kid would never give anyone ANY trouble.

flan

chef · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
chef wrote:
I think a lot could've been done that didn't include killing the gorilla. Distracting the gorilla to get it away from the child for starters.

Also, the attitude that the mother should've been able to stop the child no matter what is a bit haughty. Children are not robots. They have a mind of their own. They do go parent deaf. Without being there and having the benefit of watching her behavior, I will not judge her. What if the child broke and ran? Maybe she couldn't run as fast. And strollers aren't always a roadblock for the child. Once I saw a child scoot down in the stroller until his feet hit the ground then he started walking while still being buckled into the stroller. I didn't think such a thing was possible. Also, the boy could've known how to unbuckle the buckles on the stroller.
Sorry, gotta disagree here. Witnesses said the boy kept saying over and over he was going to climb the fence to see the gorilla. They also say the mom turned her back on him. Accidents happen. If your son was threatening to jump in a pool would you then turn your back on him giving him the chance to do it? I highly doubt.

Right. I get that. I'm just considering what could've happened since I currently have a toddler. There's been plenty of times DS has declared he was going to do something/go somewhere and was told no but managed to break away anyway. We will pick him up and he will wiggle away and take off. Now, the mom turning her back on him was wrong. You just don't do that.

I wouldn't turn my back on DS if he were threatening to do something, whatever it may be. I can guarantee he would take the chance to run. He's like me - can outstubborn a mule. In the zoo situation, I would have put his leash on him and put him in his stroller. 2 layers of protection. But, we know he's a flight risk so we're careful about where we take him when he's having an ornery day and if he's being particularly bad, we just don't go out.

chef · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:

This is from her Facebook page. He looks like a real angel.
Yeah, THAT kid would never give anyone ANY trouble.
flan

Oh good grief. He's pouting in 1 pic. Big deal.

I'm sure there are plenty of pics of him smiling.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

That kid looks like 4 year old not wanting a picture made. How dare he.

I'm not going to crucify anyone involved.

There are fails all around.

Yes, mom and dad should have been more attentive.

Yes, the enclosures should be more secure.

Yes, the protocol for this sort of thing should be better.

But it's over now.

The only thing that can be done now, is making sure something like this doesn't happen again.

Whenitrains · Member

A friend I knew had a dd who was a houdini in getting out of the leashes. If What finally worked was them duct taping it to her clothes.

apple · Guru

People put kids on leashes? wow....

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.

FNW · Guru

Children's lives matter!

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

The zoo was inspected on April 7 2016 and no "non compliant issues were found".

chef · Guru

apple wrote:
People put kids on leashes? wow....

Yep! Sure do!

Would rather have him on a leash than under a car.

We don't use it frequently but we do use it. He knows he can go the length of the monkey's tail when he's wearing it. It's also a backpack and he loves it. He holds it when he's in the truck.

-- Edited by chef on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 06:20:45 PM