TOTALLY GEEKED!

chef · Guru

RE: Zoo Shoots Gorilla After Child Falls In

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

apple wrote:
People put kids on leashes? wow....

LOL They're not really leashes. More like harnesses. They go around the chest and a have a leash. So your child can walk ahead but not run off. It keeps them from breaking away from you and running. They are not for everyone but some kids are known runners.

The zoo absolutely did the right thing by killing the gorilla once the child was in the cage. 100% right. It just shouldn't have come to that.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

chef wrote:
apple wrote:
People put kids on leashes? wow....
Yep! Sure do!
Would rather have him on a leash than under a car.

True dat!

apple · Guru

chef wrote:
apple wrote:
People put kids on leashes? wow....
Yep! Sure do!
Would rather have him on a leash than under a car.
We don't use it frequently but we do use it. He knows he can go the length of the monkey's tail when he's wearing it. It's also a backpack and he loves it. He holds it when he's in the truck.

-- Edited by chef on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 06:20:45 PM

I guess it just surprises me, I raised three children to the teen years (so far!) without that even being something that I considered.

Maybe mine just weren't' "runners". lol

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.

Oh FFS. Sometimes things happen. Yes, this was a bad one--and could have been worse--but toddlers of very good parents have gotten hurt or died for various reasons.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I used the same one with my kids that was used with me and my brother.

Used it in places like the zoo, the beach, amusement parks, museums. Large places where they could easily be gone.

2 in a stroller and one walking.

They loved the freedom.

I loved the security.

apple · Guru

My mom and I took my 2, 4 and 6 year olds to Disney Land.
If you weren't in a stroller, you were holding someones hand.

I don't recall seeing leashes on kids there, perhaps it was an off leash day?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

It is hard to access risk at times as well.

The kids and I were at an alligator and reptile zoo thing.

The kids were all 10 and up.

The kids were in a little show with my mom while I was securing tickets for another thing.

So I'm waiting and looking around.

There is a cage that says "largest captive alligator".

I am standing right beside the chain link fence trying to see this thing.

The toe of my shoes are touching the fence.

I look down to answer my phone and I see it.

The only thing between me and a 20 ft gator was a chain link fence.

It was right there at my feet.

A kid would have no problem putting their hand through it.

This is why I wonder about zoo enclosures.

It just seems they should be more secure.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

apple wrote:
My mom and I took my 2, 4 and 6 year olds to Disney Land.
If you weren't in a stroller, you were holding someones hand.

I don't recall seeing leashes on kids there, perhaps it was an off leash day?

Good for you.

Holding hands constantly is uncomfortable.

huskerbb · Guru

I don't fault the zoo here. They've been open for decades and nothing like this has happened.

Sometimes bad things just happen. There really is no solution sometimes, especially after the fact.

People think that every contingency can be planned for, anticipated, and prevented. That is just not possible.

NO ONE ever thought that a kid could get stuck in a refrigerator and die--yet when those models that had the latching handles started getting thrown out--that's exactly what happened. It was really no one's fault.

chef · Guru

apple wrote:
chef wrote:
apple wrote:
People put kids on leashes? wow....
Yep! Sure do!
Would rather have him on a leash than under a car.
We don't use it frequently but we do use it. He knows he can go the length of the monkey's tail when he's wearing it. It's also a backpack and he loves it. He holds it when he's in the truck.

-- Edited by chef on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 06:20:45 PM
I guess it just surprises me, I raised three children to the teen years (so far!) without that even being something that I considered.
Maybe mine just weren't' "runners". lol

Maybe! Long before I had my son, it felt wrong to see kids on leashes. I just didn't understand why it can be a good tool. Now I do.

DS is a runner. He is a stubborn and strong-willed every day. Some days, he's adds being a brat to that mix and those are the days we will use the leash. When he's being a brat, he's parent deaf. I can see him pulling a stunt like the kid in the OP did. I have hooked him with my cane (around his torso, not hard enough to hurt but hard/firm enough to stop him from running further) more than once because he jerked out of my grasp and he runs way faster than I can ever hope to. He absolutely hates it when I hook him with my cane and will "melt" into the ground, which gives me plenty of time to grab him.

apple · Guru

chef wrote:
apple wrote:
chef wrote:
apple wrote:
People put kids on leashes? wow....
Yep! Sure do!
Would rather have him on a leash than under a car.
We don't use it frequently but we do use it. He knows he can go the length of the monkey's tail when he's wearing it. It's also a backpack and he loves it. He holds it when he's in the truck.

-- Edited by chef on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 06:20:45 PM
I guess it just surprises me, I raised three children to the teen years (so far!) without that even being something that I considered.
Maybe mine just weren't' "runners". lol
Maybe! Long before I had my son, it felt wrong to see kids on leashes. I just didn't understand why it can be a good tool. Now I do.
DS is a runner. He is a stubborn and strong-willed every day. Some days, he's adds being a brat to that mix and those are the days we will use the leash. When he's being a brat, he's parent deaf. I can see him pulling a stunt like the kid in the OP did. I have hooked him with my cane (around his torso, not hard enough to hurt but hard/firm enough to stop him from running further) more than once because he jerked out of my grasp and he runs way faster than I can ever hope to. He absolutely hates it when I hook him with my cane and will "melt" into the ground, which gives me plenty of time to grab him.

ah... well I guess I am lucky. I never had to deal with that.

apple · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
apple wrote:
My mom and I took my 2, 4 and 6 year olds to Disney Land.
If you weren't in a stroller, you were holding someones hand.

I don't recall seeing leashes on kids there, perhaps it was an off leash day?
Good for you.
Holding hands constantly is uncomfortable.

Wouldn't having your hand held make you feel "safer" and cared for more than having a leash attached to you?

chef · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
I don't fault the zoo here. They've been open for decades and nothing like this has happened.

Sometimes bad things just happen. There really is no solution sometimes, especially after the fact.

People think that every contingency can be planned for, anticipated, and prevented. That is just not possible.

NO ONE ever thought that a kid could get stuck in a refrigerator and die--yet when those models that had the latching handles started getting thrown out--that's exactly what happened. It was really no one's fault.

I have a friend who thinks exactly that. He says his kids will NEVER EVER have a tantrum in public, be disobedient, run away, etc. He says they will ALWAYS listen and obey the FIRST time. I laughed at him and told him to get back to me when he has a toddler.

chef · Guru

apple wrote:
chef wrote:
apple wrote:
chef wrote:
apple wrote:
People put kids on leashes? wow....
Yep! Sure do!
Would rather have him on a leash than under a car.
We don't use it frequently but we do use it. He knows he can go the length of the monkey's tail when he's wearing it. It's also a backpack and he loves it. He holds it when he's in the truck.

-- Edited by chef on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 06:20:45 PM
I guess it just surprises me, I raised three children to the teen years (so far!) without that even being something that I considered.
Maybe mine just weren't' "runners". lol
Maybe! Long before I had my son, it felt wrong to see kids on leashes. I just didn't understand why it can be a good tool. Now I do.
DS is a runner. He is a stubborn and strong-willed every day. Some days, he's adds being a brat to that mix and those are the days we will use the leash. When he's being a brat, he's parent deaf. I can see him pulling a stunt like the kid in the OP did. I have hooked him with my cane (around his torso, not hard enough to hurt but hard/firm enough to stop him from running further) more than once because he jerked out of my grasp and he runs way faster than I can ever hope to. He absolutely hates it when I hook him with my cane and will "melt" into the ground, which gives me plenty of time to grab him.
ah... well I guess I am lucky. I never had to deal with that.

And that's awesome :)

I can ship DS to you so you can experience the other side wink He can be so sweet but can also be a terror. My parents say he's a lot like I was when I was his age.

apple · Guru

chef wrote:
apple wrote:
chef wrote:
apple wrote:
chef wrote:
apple wrote:
People put kids on leashes? wow....
Yep! Sure do!
Would rather have him on a leash than under a car.
We don't use it frequently but we do use it. He knows he can go the length of the monkey's tail when he's wearing it. It's also a backpack and he loves it. He holds it when he's in the truck.

-- Edited by chef on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 06:20:45 PM
I guess it just surprises me, I raised three children to the teen years (so far!) without that even being something that I considered.
Maybe mine just weren't' "runners". lol
Maybe! Long before I had my son, it felt wrong to see kids on leashes. I just didn't understand why it can be a good tool. Now I do.
DS is a runner. He is a stubborn and strong-willed every day. Some days, he's adds being a brat to that mix and those are the days we will use the leash. When he's being a brat, he's parent deaf. I can see him pulling a stunt like the kid in the OP did. I have hooked him with my cane (around his torso, not hard enough to hurt but hard/firm enough to stop him from running further) more than once because he jerked out of my grasp and he runs way faster than I can ever hope to. He absolutely hates it when I hook him with my cane and will "melt" into the ground, which gives me plenty of time to grab him.
ah... well I guess I am lucky. I never had to deal with that.
And that's awesome :)
I can ship DS to you so you can experience the other side He can be so sweet but can also be a terror. My parents say he's a lot like I was when I was his age.

Thanks but no thanks. lol Unless you want to trade for three teenagers? :)

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

apple wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
apple wrote:
My mom and I took my 2, 4 and 6 year olds to Disney Land.
If you weren't in a stroller, you were holding someones hand.

I don't recall seeing leashes on kids there, perhaps it was an off leash day?
Good for you.
Holding hands constantly is uncomfortable.

Wouldn't having your hand held make you feel "safer" and cared for more than having a leash attached to you?

How so?

Mine didn't like it. They hated holding hands for long than crossing a road.

And their hands would get red and sweaty and sore. And their arms would get sore.

When is the last time you walked around with your arms up over your head?

chef · Guru

apple wrote:
chef wrote:
apple wrote:
chef wrote:
apple wrote:
chef wrote:
apple wrote:
People put kids on leashes? wow....
Yep! Sure do!
Would rather have him on a leash than under a car.
We don't use it frequently but we do use it. He knows he can go the length of the monkey's tail when he's wearing it. It's also a backpack and he loves it. He holds it when he's in the truck.

-- Edited by chef on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 06:20:45 PM
I guess it just surprises me, I raised three children to the teen years (so far!) without that even being something that I considered.
Maybe mine just weren't' "runners". lol
Maybe! Long before I had my son, it felt wrong to see kids on leashes. I just didn't understand why it can be a good tool. Now I do.
DS is a runner. He is a stubborn and strong-willed every day. Some days, he's adds being a brat to that mix and those are the days we will use the leash. When he's being a brat, he's parent deaf. I can see him pulling a stunt like the kid in the OP did. I have hooked him with my cane (around his torso, not hard enough to hurt but hard/firm enough to stop him from running further) more than once because he jerked out of my grasp and he runs way faster than I can ever hope to. He absolutely hates it when I hook him with my cane and will "melt" into the ground, which gives me plenty of time to grab him.
ah... well I guess I am lucky. I never had to deal with that.
And that's awesome :)
I can ship DS to you so you can experience the other side He can be so sweet but can also be a terror. My parents say he's a lot like I was when I was his age.
Thanks but no thanks. lol Unless you want to trade for three teenagers? :)

But but but they would like playing with DS! biggrin

I wonder what kind of teen he'll be. We try our hardest to instill good behavior in him. Hopefully he'll keep on the straight and narrow.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

apple wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
apple wrote:
My mom and I took my 2, 4 and 6 year olds to Disney Land.
If you weren't in a stroller, you were holding someones hand.

I don't recall seeing leashes on kids there, perhaps it was an off leash day?
Good for you.
Holding hands constantly is uncomfortable.

Wouldn't having your hand held make you feel "safer" and cared for more than having a leash attached to you?

No.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

chef wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.
Neither of your kids ever got away from you?

As I have stated many times, DD was a runner. She got out of the house when she was 18 months. After that, we put locks up high where she couldn't reach and kept a vigilant eye on her. If she would have been hurt when she escaped from the house, damn right it would have been my fault. I am the parent. It's my job to keep her safe. And knowing she was a runner and a handful, and obstinant, when we went out, we kept her secured at all times. She was not given a chance to run because we knew if she did, she would be gone in a flash. We kept her safe and let her run where it was safe and appropriate. Partially to tires her out and partially to teach her where it was appropriate to run and where it was not.

NAOW · Vette's SS

Mellow Momma wrote:
chef wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.
Neither of your kids ever got away from you?
As I have stated many times, DD was a runner. She got out of the house when she was 18 months. After that, we put locks up high where she couldn't reach and kept a vigilant eye on her. If she would have been hurt when she escaped from the house, damn right it would have been my fault. I am the parent. It's my job to keep her safe. And knowing she was a runner and a handful, and obstinant, when we went out, we kept her secured at all times. She was not given a chance to run because we knew if she did, she would be gone in a flash. We kept her safe and let her run where it was safe and appropriate. Partially to tires her out and partially to teach her where it was appropriate to run and where it was not.

So you got lucky that she didn't get hurt the time she escaped from the house, but yet you criticize these parents who weren't so fortunate?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

You know, this board is all about personal responsibility. If you are unemployed or don't have health care - be responsible! Get a job, even if it's fast food (just don't talk to anyone younger than you or else her parents will be all up in your face). Get as many jobs as it takes!! But personal responsibility when it comes to parenting and we give them a pass. "Could happen to anyone". I call bullsh!t. You are either for people being responsible for themselves and their families or you aren't. You can't have it both ways.

I also think that this was such a "suburban soccer mom" thing to do - going to the zoo - that it's easier to put yourself in the mother's shoes and therefore easier to make excuses for her. If this was a woman who's child ran off the subway platform I guaran-gosh darn- tee you would all be saying she should have had her child under control and should not have looked away even for a second. Except there is virtually no difference in the situations.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

NAOW wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
chef wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.
Neither of your kids ever got away from you?
As I have stated many times, DD was a runner. She got out of the house when she was 18 months. After that, we put locks up high where she couldn't reach and kept a vigilant eye on her. If she would have been hurt when she escaped from the house, damn right it would have been my fault. I am the parent. It's my job to keep her safe. And knowing she was a runner and a handful, and obstinant, when we went out, we kept her secured at all times. She was not given a chance to run because we knew if she did, she would be gone in a flash. We kept her safe and let her run where it was safe and appropriate. Partially to tires her out and partially to teach her where it was appropriate to run and where it was not.
So you got lucky that she didn't get hurt the time she escaped from the house, but yet you criticize these parents who weren't so fortunate?

I said if she had been hurt it would have been my fault! MY FAULT. Just like this situation was the parent's fault.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
You know, this board is all about personal responsibility. If you are unemployed or don't have health care - be responsible! Get a job, even if it's fast food (just don't talk to anyone younger than you or else her parents will be all up in your face). Get as many jobs as it takes!! But personal responsibility when it comes to parenting and we give them a pass. "Could happen to anyone". I call bullsh!t. You are either for people being responsible for themselves and their families or you aren't. You can't have it both ways.

I also think that this was such a "suburban soccer mom" thing to do - going to the zoo - that it's easier to put yourself in the mother's shoes and therefore easier to make excuses for her. If this was a woman who's child ran off the subway platform I guaran-gosh darn- tee you would all be saying she should have had her child under control and should not have looked away even for a second. Except there is virtually no difference in the situations.

Sooo, what would you have preferred been done? Just say 'So sad, too bad", we will mail your kid's remains to you? Are u suggesting that other human beings stand by and do nothing when a child is in lethal danger? Or what are you suggesting exactly?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

But, yet in another thread, the High School Junior you seem to think it would be ok for her to defy her parents. Neither can you have it both ways?

And, we have been critical of mom. I said she sounded pretty nonchalant calling out "mommy's here" like her kid is getting a flu shot or something rather than screaming for help or jumping in the pit herself.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Heck no. I think the zoo did the right thing. I am 100% behind the zoo. I just think that we need to hold he parents accountable for what happened. This entire incident was their fault. They should have to pay for the cost of replacement of the gorilla. At the least.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
But, yet in another thread, the High School Junior you seem to think it would be ok for her to defy her parents. Neither can you have it both ways?

And, we have been critical of mom. I said she sounded pretty nonchalant calling out "mommy's here" like her kid is getting a flu shot or something rather than screaming for help or jumping in the pit herself.

I don't think it's ok for the high school junior to defy her parents at all. I was merely saying that if you push her to take a side, she won't take the side of the parents. I never once said that her defiance was acceptable. Please find the post where I said that. I simply explained that telling a teenager that something was forbidden would drive them right to it.

NAOW · Vette's SS

Mellow Momma wrote:
NAOW wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
chef wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.
Neither of your kids ever got away from you?
As I have stated many times, DD was a runner. She got out of the house when she was 18 months. After that, we put locks up high where she couldn't reach and kept a vigilant eye on her. If she would have been hurt when she escaped from the house, damn right it would have been my fault. I am the parent. It's my job to keep her safe. And knowing she was a runner and a handful, and obstinant, when we went out, we kept her secured at all times. She was not given a chance to run because we knew if she did, she would be gone in a flash. We kept her safe and let her run where it was safe and appropriate. Partially to tires her out and partially to teach her where it was appropriate to run and where it was not.
So you got lucky that she didn't get hurt the time she escaped from the house, but yet you criticize these parents who weren't so fortunate?
I said if she had been hurt it would have been my fault! MY FAULT. Just like this situation was the parent's fault.

Obviously she should have had eyes on her kid, but she made a mistake, just like you did (and I have, and pretty much every parent on the planet as well). I don't think she deserves to be vilified for that. That is not the same as saying you don't have to take personal responsibility for your family.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Heck no. I think the zoo did the right thing. I am 100% behind the zoo. I just think that we need to hold he parents accountable for what happened. This entire incident was their fault. They should have to pay for the cost of replacement of the gorilla. At the least.

I don't disagree with you so why are you assuming we do? I have said that if the authorities believe charges should be brought based on the evidence then they should charge her.

chef · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
But, yet in another thread, the High School Junior you seem to think it would be ok for her to defy her parents. Neither can you have it both ways?

And, we have been critical of mom. I said she sounded pretty nonchalant calling out "mommy's here" like her kid is getting a flu shot or something rather than screaming for help or jumping in the pit herself.
I don't think it's ok for the high school junior to defy her parents at all. I was merely saying that if you push her to take a side, she won't take the side of the parents. I never once said that her defiance was acceptable. Please find the post where I said that. I simply explained that telling a teenager that something was forbidden would drive them right to it.

Then that too is a parenting fail. If you expect parents to always be able to control their kids, that goes for any age.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
But, yet in another thread, the High School Junior you seem to think it would be ok for her to defy her parents. Neither can you have it both ways?

And, we have been critical of mom. I said she sounded pretty nonchalant calling out "mommy's here" like her kid is getting a flu shot or something rather than screaming for help or jumping in the pit herself.
I don't think it's ok for the high school junior to defy her parents at all. I was merely saying that if you push her to take a side, she won't take the side of the parents. I never once said that her defiance was acceptable. Please find the post where I said that. I simply explained that telling a teenager that something was forbidden would drive them right to it.

I don't disagree with that either. However you have made some comments that a 4 yr old should be listening perfectly and if not by age 4 then you are screwed or something.

chef · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
chef wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.
Neither of your kids ever got away from you?
As I have stated many times, DD was a runner. She got out of the house when she was 18 months. After that, we put locks up high where she couldn't reach and kept a vigilant eye on her. If she would have been hurt when she escaped from the house, damn right it would have been my fault. I am the parent. It's my job to keep her safe. And knowing she was a runner and a handful, and obstinant, when we went out, we kept her secured at all times. She was not given a chance to run because we knew if she did, she would be gone in a flash. We kept her safe and let her run where it was safe and appropriate. Partially to tires her out and partially to teach her where it was appropriate to run and where it was not.

And if she got out anyway? If she escaped your security and ran anyway?

I'm glad she didn't get hurt when she got out. You did what you could to prevent her getting out again. That, to me, is responsible parenting. That, to me, means that I wouldn't vilify you if she got out anyway in spite of all the precautions you took. She could've found a way out while you were sleeping and been long gone if she was determined enough. That would not have been your fault because you did everything you could. Those places you let her run? She could've found a way out of the safe zone.

When I would've said it was your fault something happened would be if you didn't take every reasonable precaution to prevent whatever.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Just like this mother didn't take every reasonable precaution.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
But, yet in another thread, the High School Junior you seem to think it would be ok for her to defy her parents. Neither can you have it both ways?

And, we have been critical of mom. I said she sounded pretty nonchalant calling out "mommy's here" like her kid is getting a flu shot or something rather than screaming for help or jumping in the pit herself.
I don't think it's ok for the high school junior to defy her parents at all. I was merely saying that if you push her to take a side, she won't take the side of the parents. I never once said that her defiance was acceptable. Please find the post where I said that. I simply explained that telling a teenager that something was forbidden would drive them right to it.
I don't disagree with that either. However you have made some comments that a 4 yr old should be listening perfectly and if not by age 4 then you are screwed or something.

Yes, a 4 year old should be able to listen at the zoo when told not to climb into the animal enclosure. If telling your 4 year old "NO!" doesn't stop them from climbing into the enclosure, you are in a world of trouble when that child turns 15 and decides to take the car without permission, or a license, or insurance.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

NAOW wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
NAOW wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
chef wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.
Neither of your kids ever got away from you?
As I have stated many times, DD was a runner. She got out of the house when she was 18 months. After that, we put locks up high where she couldn't reach and kept a vigilant eye on her. If she would have been hurt when she escaped from the house, damn right it would have been my fault. I am the parent. It's my job to keep her safe. And knowing she was a runner and a handful, and obstinant, when we went out, we kept her secured at all times. She was not given a chance to run because we knew if she did, she would be gone in a flash. We kept her safe and let her run where it was safe and appropriate. Partially to tires her out and partially to teach her where it was appropriate to run and where it was not.
So you got lucky that she didn't get hurt the time she escaped from the house, but yet you criticize these parents who weren't so fortunate?
I said if she had been hurt it would have been my fault! MY FAULT. Just like this situation was the parent's fault.
Obviously she should have had eyes on her kid, but she made a mistake, just like you did (and I have, and pretty much every parent on the planet as well). I don't think she deserves to be vilified for that. That is not the same as saying you don't have to take personal responsibility for your family.

My mistake was not knowing my 18 month old would wake up at 6am, unlock the door to the backyard and leave the house. Would anyone assume at 18 months that you would have to worry about that? This mother's mistake was not listening when her 4 year old told her he was going into the water to swim with the gorilla! She raised a child who was not able to listen to "no" and keep out of danger. She failed to keep her eye on him in a public place full of dangers - strangers, wild animals, etc. Some parenting mistakes are more easily avoidable than others. This mistake was avoidable.

ed11563 · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
NAOW wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
NAOW wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
chef wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.
Neither of your kids ever got away from you?
As I have stated many times, DD was a runner. She got out of the house when she was 18 months. After that, we put locks up high where she couldn't reach and kept a vigilant eye on her. If she would have been hurt when she escaped from the house, damn right it would have been my fault. I am the parent. It's my job to keep her safe. And knowing she was a runner and a handful, and obstinant, when we went out, we kept her secured at all times. She was not given a chance to run because we knew if she did, she would be gone in a flash. We kept her safe and let her run where it was safe and appropriate. Partially to tires her out and partially to teach her where it was appropriate to run and where it was not.
So you got lucky that she didn't get hurt the time she escaped from the house, but yet you criticize these parents who weren't so fortunate?
I said if she had been hurt it would have been my fault! MY FAULT. Just like this situation was the parent's fault.
Obviously she should have had eyes on her kid, but she made a mistake, just like you did (and I have, and pretty much every parent on the planet as well). I don't think she deserves to be vilified for that. That is not the same as saying you don't have to take personal responsibility for your family.

My mistake was not knowing my 18 month old would wake up at 6am, unlock the door to the backyard and leave the house. Would anyone assume at 18 months that you would have to worry about that? This mother's mistake was not listening when her 4 year old told her he was going into the water to swim with the gorilla! She raised a child who was not able to listen to "no" and keep out of danger. She failed to keep her eye on him in a public place full of dangers - strangers, wild animals, etc. Some parenting mistakes are more easily avoidable than others. This mistake was avoidable.

Some kids need to be on a leash.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

13331131_1043382262409719_22625073403675

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

apple wrote:
People put kids on leashes? wow....

Yes. Is that some big shock?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Mellow Momma wrote:
NAOW wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
NAOW wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
chef wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.
Neither of your kids ever got away from you?
As I have stated many times, DD was a runner. She got out of the house when she was 18 months. After that, we put locks up high where she couldn't reach and kept a vigilant eye on her. If she would have been hurt when she escaped from the house, damn right it would have been my fault. I am the parent. It's my job to keep her safe. And knowing she was a runner and a handful, and obstinant, when we went out, we kept her secured at all times. She was not given a chance to run because we knew if she did, she would be gone in a flash. We kept her safe and let her run where it was safe and appropriate. Partially to tires her out and partially to teach her where it was appropriate to run and where it was not.
So you got lucky that she didn't get hurt the time she escaped from the house, but yet you criticize these parents who weren't so fortunate?
I said if she had been hurt it would have been my fault! MY FAULT. Just like this situation was the parent's fault.
Obviously she should have had eyes on her kid, but she made a mistake, just like you did (and I have, and pretty much every parent on the planet as well). I don't think she deserves to be vilified for that. That is not the same as saying you don't have to take personal responsibility for your family.

My mistake was not knowing my 18 month old would wake up at 6am, unlock the door to the backyard and leave the house. Would anyone assume at 18 months that you would have to worry about that? This mother's mistake was not listening when her 4 year old told her he was going into the water to swim with the gorilla! She raised a child who was not able to listen to "no" and keep out of danger. She failed to keep her eye on him in a public place full of dangers - strangers, wild animals, etc. Some parenting mistakes are more easily avoidable than others. This mistake was avoidable.

My 18 month old crawled out the den window while I was getting my 3 year old out of the shower. My neighbor just happened to see him fall to the ground.

The window is 12×12 square 4 feet off the floor.

I didn't think he could do it.

This mom probably didn't think it would be so easy to get into.

I wouldnt.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Why was it so easy to get in to the enclosure?

This isn't the first time a child has gotten in to an animal enclosure.

And the animals have been known to get out.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

lilyofcourse wrote:

My 18 month old crawled out the den window while I was getting my 3 year old out of the shower. My neighbor just happened to see him fall to the ground.
The window is 12×12 square 4 feet off the floor.
I didn't think he could do it.
This mom probably didn't think it would be so easy to get into.
I wouldnt.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Why was it so easy to get in to the enclosure?

This isn't the first time a child has gotten in to an animal enclosure.

And the animals have been known to get out.

Have you been reading this thread?

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Yes.

Again, why was he able to do this?

If he could get in, then the animals could get out.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
You know, this board is all about personal responsibility. If you are unemployed or don't have health care - be responsible! Get a job, even if it's fast food (just don't talk to anyone younger than you or else her parents will be all up in your face). Get as many jobs as it takes!! But personal responsibility when it comes to parenting and we give them a pass. "Could happen to anyone". I call bullsh!t. You are either for people being responsible for themselves and their families or you aren't. You can't have it both ways.

I also think that this was such a "suburban soccer mom" thing to do - going to the zoo - that it's easier to put yourself in the mother's shoes and therefore easier to make excuses for her. If this was a woman who's child ran off the subway platform I guaran-gosh darn- tee you would all be saying she should have had her child under control and should not have looked away even for a second. Except there is virtually no difference in the situations.

That is absolute BS. Being "responsible" doesn't mean you somehow aren't when the ONE IN A MILLION thing happens.

You can't plan for every contingency.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
NAOW wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
NAOW wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
chef wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
It isn't like the zoo has no regulations whatsoever. The insurance on that place must be outrageous. Don't you think that means an annual inspection and keeping up to date with the latest in barriers and such?! In order for them to get their insurance and maintain their license, they have to have certain things in place to keep people and animals safe. Let's not belabor the "it should have been safer" point. This is one of the most visited, most reputable zoos in the nation. Their enclosures are as safe as they get.

The parent, however, was not minding her child as she should have been. I will say it again. As a parent of a toddler you have ONE JOB - keep the child safe. She failed.
Neither of your kids ever got away from you?
As I have stated many times, DD was a runner. She got out of the house when she was 18 months. After that, we put locks up high where she couldn't reach and kept a vigilant eye on her. If she would have been hurt when she escaped from the house, damn right it would have been my fault. I am the parent. It's my job to keep her safe. And knowing she was a runner and a handful, and obstinant, when we went out, we kept her secured at all times. She was not given a chance to run because we knew if she did, she would be gone in a flash. We kept her safe and let her run where it was safe and appropriate. Partially to tires her out and partially to teach her where it was appropriate to run and where it was not.
So you got lucky that she didn't get hurt the time she escaped from the house, but yet you criticize these parents who weren't so fortunate?
I said if she had been hurt it would have been my fault! MY FAULT. Just like this situation was the parent's fault.
Obviously she should have had eyes on her kid, but she made a mistake, just like you did (and I have, and pretty much every parent on the planet as well). I don't think she deserves to be vilified for that. That is not the same as saying you don't have to take personal responsibility for your family.

My mistake was not knowing my 18 month old would wake up at 6am, unlock the door to the backyard and leave the house. Would anyone assume at 18 months that you would have to worry about that? This mother's mistake was not listening when her 4 year old told her he was going into the water to swim with the gorilla! She raised a child who was not able to listen to "no" and keep out of danger. She failed to keep her eye on him in a public place full of dangers - strangers, wild animals, etc. Some parenting mistakes are more easily avoidable than others. This mistake was avoidable.

You are such a hypocrite. Why would anyone assume a 4 year old would be able to climb into a gorilla cage? It's not like it happens every day. I'm willing to bet a THOUSAND more 18 month old kids have wandered off over the past 20 years than 4 year olds have climbed into a gorilla cage.

Learn some personal responsibility and watch your kid.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 11:09:28 PM

huskerbb · Guru

No charges are going to be filed against the parents.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

13342862_1071883869514202_79173152972996

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

And a drunken Johnny Manzell...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
No charges are going to be filed against the parents.

This story has a good video (not the ones most of us have seen, but it illustrates the sequence of events):

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/criminal-charges-possible-in-killing-of-cincinnati-gorilla/ar-BBtH9Uc?li=BBnb7Kz

Police may bring criminal charges over a Cincinnati Zoo incident in which a gorilla was killed to rescue a 4-year-old boy who had fallen into its enclosure, a prosecutor said on Tuesday.

And an interesting comment:

Looking at the incident through Harambe's eyes, his former caretaker, Jerry Stones, said in a CNN interview that the breach of his habitat was likely confusing.

"Here is this animal that has this strange thing in his house," Stones said on CNN. "He knew what adult people were but he'd never been around children. It smells similar, it looks similar but 'What is it? Do I play with it? Am I supposed to be afraid of it? What do I do?'"

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
You know, this board is all about personal responsibility. If you are unemployed or don't have health care - be responsible! Get a job, even if it's fast food (just don't talk to anyone younger than you or else her parents will be all up in your face). Get as many jobs as it takes!! But personal responsibility when it comes to parenting and we give them a pass. "Could happen to anyone". I call bullsh!t. You are either for people being responsible for themselves and their families or you aren't. You can't have it both ways.

I also think that this was such a "suburban soccer mom" thing to do - going to the zoo - that it's easier to put yourself in the mother's shoes and therefore easier to make excuses for her. If this was a woman who's child ran off the subway platform I guaran-gosh darn- tee you would all be saying she should have had her child under control and should not have looked away even for a second. Except there is virtually no difference in the situations.
That is absolute BS. Being "responsible" doesn't mean you somehow aren't when the ONE IN A MILLION thing happens.
You can't plan for every contingency.

Watch your kids at the zoo. Period. BE A PARENT.

flan