TOTALLY GEEKED!

FNW · Guru

5 Ways Socialism Destroys Societies

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

Right. And then we discussed that and then you said the conversation wasn't about borders.

FNW · Guru

And Norway's border control is superior to ours. But their socialism would not work for us, and it will probably result in failure to Norway, once their oil is no longer profitable.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

FNW wrote:
And Norway's border control is superior to ours. But their socialism would not work for us, and it will probably result in failure to Norway, once their oil is no longer profitable.

So, better but not better? evileye

FNW · Guru

Border control better. Socialism, not so much. Two different issues.

FNW · Guru

Not that people are rushing to Norway, given their high cost of living.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

FNW wrote:
Border control better. Socialism, not so much. Two different issues.

Right. Better but not better. That's what I said! biggrin

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

FNW wrote:
Not that people are rushing to Norway, given their high cost of living.

Actually, you would be wrong on that. According to migrationpolicy.org, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Denmark have long been committe to resettling refugees in their countries as a committment to the international community. They believe it is a shared duty of all countries to help the refugees.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

So many people fled to Norway that they actually had began restricting access to their country. People specifically choose the Nordic countries for their amazing benefits. They don't mind the high cost of living because the resettlement programs train them for jobs and teach them the language - I wish we did that. After the immigrant pass the classes, the gov't helps them find jobs and then they are "launched" and start paying into the system.

FNW · Guru

Restricting access is key. And actually getting jobs, which is hard to do when tax laws encourage outsourcing, creating jobs in countries other than ours. A lot of changes need to be done to this country, and eliminating the middle class is not the answer.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

apple wrote:
Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
Socialism would end poverty.
Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.

Capitalism is NOT based on exploitation. There is nothing "exploitive" about me baking a pie, and then selling it to you at 3x the cost of my ingredients and labor. You have a choice to say yes or no to my price. If you think the pie is too expensive, you can go make one yourself. Or, find another baker who will make you one for 2x the price or less or whatever. Capitalism assumes you are a Grown Up and responsible for your own choices. Socialism assumes you are a whiny baby who is an incapable and incompetent and you need to suck on the Nanny Teat of Govt because you are too lame to survive on your own.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

There are actually MANY variants of Socialism. It's NOT, by any means, limited to your charming "definition."

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
There are actually MANY variants of Socialism. It's NOT, by any means, limited to your charming "definition."

flan

And, Apple can just put out a blanket statement about capitalism? Oh ok.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
There are actually MANY variants of Socialism. It's NOT, by any means, limited to your charming "definition."

flan
And, Apple can just put out a blanket statement about capitalism? Oh ok.

I am assuming that apple quoted; that is very different from an insult.

flan

-- Edited by flan327 on Sunday 5th of June 2016 10:26:31 AM

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Oh, so a quoted "insult' is not an "insult"? Seriously is everything an "insult" to you? Are you so easily wounded that someone cannot have a passionate discussion? I mean, why do you frequent threads with contested topics if you see "insult" whenever you look?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

You cannot honestly tell me that this statement:

Socialism assumes you are a whiny baby who is an incapable and incompetent and you need to suck on the Nanny Teat of Govt because you are too lame to survive on your own

is meant to encourage civil debate...

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
You cannot honestly tell me that this statement:

Socialism assumes you are a whiny baby who is an incapable and incompetent and you need to suck on the Nanny Teat of Govt because you are too lame to survive on your own

is meant to encourage civil debate...
flan

It is my response to this: Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation.

So, i guess if that blanket statement can be made, then my statement is just as valid.

huskerbb · Guru

apple wrote:
Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
Socialism would end poverty.
Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.

That is patently false--and has been proven false over and over again by EVERY society that has tried socialism.

The HIGHEST standards of living in the world are in CAPITALIST nations. Socialist nations have among the lowest.

The same can be said of education and even poverty. Socialist nations have FAR higher levels of poverty than those in capitalist nations.

I don't know where you get your nonsense, but it is factually and historically false.

huskerbb · Guru

Oh, and make no mistake. The nations of Western Europe are CAPITALIST nations. The government does not own the means of production. SOME of them have some socialist elements to their social programs, as does the U.S.--but their economies are wholly capitalist.

The more socialist elements they have in their government and institutions--the less successful in terms of having a lower standard of living and more poverty--they are.

Germany, for example, has one of the highest standards of living in Western Europe and low rates of poverty--and they have few elements of true socialism in their government and institutions.

Greece is mired in poverty and has a much lower standard of living--largely because they have more socialist elements in their nation (although they are NOT a true socialist nation, either).

The best example of what socialism truly does is Venezuela. That nation was doing MUCH better before they changed their economy to a socialist one.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

huskerbb wrote:
apple wrote:
Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
Socialism would end poverty.
Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.
That is patently false--and has been proven false over and over again by EVERY society that has tried socialism.
The HIGHEST standards of living in the world are in CAPITALIST nations. Socialist nations have among the lowest.
The same can be said of education and even poverty. Socialist nations have FAR higher levels of poverty than those in capitalist nations.
I don't know where you get your nonsense, but it is factually and historically false.

I enjoy your insistence that things you don't like or don't understand are 'patently false'. Without adding any actual data from a reliable source.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lol! Look at the World. Wow.

FNW · Guru

All you have to do is look at the condition socialist countries are in now to know what husker said was correct.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

husker knows all. There is no need for actual FACTS, Tig!

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You mean the facts about how noncapitalist countries fare? Oh ok lol.

huskerbb · Guru

Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
apple wrote:
Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
Socialism would end poverty.
Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.
That is patently false--and has been proven false over and over again by EVERY society that has tried socialism.
The HIGHEST standards of living in the world are in CAPITALIST nations. Socialist nations have among the lowest.
The same can be said of education and even poverty. Socialist nations have FAR higher levels of poverty than those in capitalist nations.
I don't know where you get your nonsense, but it is factually and historically false.
I enjoy your insistence that things you don't like or don't understand are 'patently false'. Without adding any actual data from a reliable source.

LOL!!! The reliable source is the HISTORY of the world--something which, apparently, you are not well versed in.

EVERYTHING I posted is verifiable fact. YOU are the one who cannot refute any of what I posted.

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
husker knows all. There is no need for actual FACTS, Tig!

flan

EVERYTHING I posted is a verifiable fact.

What, are you saying that the Venezuelan people are better off when they can even get basic necessities?

Are you saying that Greece has a higher standard of living than Germany?

Socialism as a form of government and, especially, as an economic model has been an abject FAILURE in light of history.

The Soviet Union and other Eastern Europeans under that form of government and economic model did not have NEARLY as high of a standard of living throughout the 20th century than capitalist nations. That is a FACT. Look up any measure on that you want to--average income, GDP per capita, percent of people in poverty--ANY measure.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You want something eye opening? Read this:

www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

One common criticism of socialism:

There is no incentive to succeed.

People every day, in every culture, do all kinds of work because they enjoy it. I suppose it shouldn't come as a surprise that the single most important piece of open-source software, run for free in people's spare time, came from Finland. People feel good about themselves by doing well at their work, all kinds of work. There are free riders everywhere; capitalism does not eliminate them. (The wealthy in capitalist societies often get some of the biggest free-rider benefits of all.)

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

We saw socialism during the time of the Pilgrims. They tried to do everything in common and it was MISERABLE FAILURE. Hello. Learn from history, how about it?

burns07 · Guru

Socialism as a form of government and, especially, as an economic model has been an abject FAILURE in light of history.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

precisely--except for a few, small countries in the world, socialism has been a complete failure

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
apple wrote:
Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
Socialism would end poverty.
Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.
That is patently false--and has been proven false over and over again by EVERY society that has tried socialism.
The HIGHEST standards of living in the world are in CAPITALIST nations. Socialist nations have among the lowest.
The same can be said of education and even poverty. Socialist nations have FAR higher levels of poverty than those in capitalist nations.
I don't know where you get your nonsense, but it is factually and historically false.
I enjoy your insistence that things you don't like or don't understand are 'patently false'. Without adding any actual data from a reliable source.
LOL!!! The reliable source is the HISTORY of the world--something which, apparently, you are not well versed in.
EVERYTHING I posted is verifiable fact. YOU are the one who cannot refute any of what I posted.

There is a plethora of information just in this thread that takes away your "verifiable" argument. You just have to keep arguing your own (incorrect and xenophobic) perspective. Likely with the hopes that people will get bored of pointing out your inability to recognize your own fallacies and stop arguing with you.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
husker knows all. There is no need for actual FACTS, Tig!

flan
EVERYTHING I posted is a verifiable fact.
What, are you saying that the Venezuelan people are better off when they can even get basic necessities?
Are you saying that Greece has a higher standard of living than Germany?

Socialism as a form of government and, especially, as an economic model has been an abject FAILURE in light of history.
The Soviet Union and other Eastern Europeans under that form of government and economic model did not have NEARLY as high of a standard of living throughout the 20th century than capitalist nations. That is a FACT. Look up any measure on that you want to--average income, GDP per capita, percent of people in poverty--ANY measure.

Right flan? Here he is again spouting things that are irrelevant with the hope that we won't challenge him and he can sit comfortably in his own little bubble where he believes that everything is just as he sees it. At least as far as he can see off his own front porch....

Tinydancer · Guru

Please tell me where you find all these fantastically successful Socialist countries where life is so fair and everyone enjoys the good life. My belief is that Socialism will never work because there are TOO many people who will never work.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

And lazy people HERE don't work either. They milk the welfare system.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

Yes and I don't have to share EVERYTHING I worked for, just a portion, and it still pisses me off. I guess you'd rather split your money with lazy losers but I prefer they work for their own.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Wow. Historically speaking, socialism does not work for the long haul. Nor does communism. And the best innovations come out of capitalist societies. All one needs to do to find "proof" of that statement is open a history book.

huskerbb · Guru

Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
apple wrote:
Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
Socialism would end poverty.
Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.
That is patently false--and has been proven false over and over again by EVERY society that has tried socialism.
The HIGHEST standards of living in the world are in CAPITALIST nations. Socialist nations have among the lowest.
The same can be said of education and even poverty. Socialist nations have FAR higher levels of poverty than those in capitalist nations.
I don't know where you get your nonsense, but it is factually and historically false.
I enjoy your insistence that things you don't like or don't understand are 'patently false'. Without adding any actual data from a reliable source.
LOL!!! The reliable source is the HISTORY of the world--something which, apparently, you are not well versed in.
EVERYTHING I posted is verifiable fact. YOU are the one who cannot refute any of what I posted.
There is a plethora of information just in this thread that takes away your "verifiable" argument. You just have to keep arguing your own (incorrect and xenophobic) perspective. Likely with the hopes that people will get bored of pointing out your inability to recognize your own fallacies and stop arguing with you.

No, there is not. Everything I have posted is factually correct. You have posted nothing to refute anything I've posted--because you can't.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Wow. Historically speaking, socialism does not work for the long haul. Nor does communism. And the best innovations come out of capitalist societies. All one needs to do to find "proof" of that statement is open a history book.

It's apparently better from their perspective that they remain ignorant of history.

apple · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Oh, so a quoted "insult' is not an "insult"? Seriously is everything an "insult" to you? Are you so easily wounded that someone cannot have a passionate discussion? I mean, why do you frequent threads with contested topics if you see "insult" whenever you look?

Its not an insult, it is a fact. biggrin

Many free market advocates cringe when they hear the words “capitalism” and “exploitation” in the same sentence. Yet, the inconvenient truth is that capitalism is exploitative in its nature.

Economic theory stipulates that all transactions in a free market economy are voluntary, and therefore by definition must be beneficial to both parties. The problem here is that, in reality, not all exchanges in the free market are truly voluntary. To give an extreme example, if someone demands your wallet at gunpoint, and you “voluntarily” give him your wallet it can be said that this was a mutually beneficialvoluntary exchange – the other person got your money, and you didn’t get shot. Therefore, the dynamic of the situation dictates whether the exchange is trulyvoluntary or not. Generally speaking, the fewer alternatives one party in a transaction has (or the more desperate it is) relative to the other the less voluntary is the exchange, and the more exploitative is the relationship.

http://www.geopolitics.us/capitalism-is-exploitation/

FNW · Guru

Capitalism is not evil or exploitative. Monopolies can be, which is where the FTC comes in....

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
apple wrote:
Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
Socialism would end poverty.
Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.
That is patently false--and has been proven false over and over again by EVERY society that has tried socialism.
The HIGHEST standards of living in the world are in CAPITALIST nations. Socialist nations have among the lowest.
The same can be said of education and even poverty. Socialist nations have FAR higher levels of poverty than those in capitalist nations.
I don't know where you get your nonsense, but it is factually and historically false.
I enjoy your insistence that things you don't like or don't understand are 'patently false'. Without adding any actual data from a reliable source.
LOL!!! The reliable source is the HISTORY of the world--something which, apparently, you are not well versed in.
EVERYTHING I posted is verifiable fact. YOU are the one who cannot refute any of what I posted.
There is a plethora of information just in this thread that takes away your "verifiable" argument. You just have to keep arguing your own (incorrect and xenophobic) perspective. Likely with the hopes that people will get bored of pointing out your inability to recognize your own fallacies and stop arguing with you.
No, there is not. Everything I have posted is factually correct. You have posted nothing to refute anything I've posted--because you can't.

Sorry Husker. You're right. Everything that you think is factually correct. Even though you can see no farther than your immediate experience and warped beliefs. Sorry. Just keep arguing until everyone gives up.

apple · Guru

FNW wrote:
Capitalism is not evil or exploitative. Monopolies can be, which is where the FTC comes in....

Perhaps Capitalism invites monopolies. Just a thought.

Tinydancer · Guru

I still haven't heard where all these fantastical Socialist countries are located. Also are people sneaking over the border just to get there like they do into the Capitalist countries?

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

Tinydancer wrote:
I still haven't heard where all these fantastical Socialist countries are located. Also are people sneaking over the border just to get there like they do into the Capitalist countries?

Canada. Norway. Switzerland. All the other countries mentioned in this thread (and others that have been posted to attack socialism). But you know that and choose to ignore it. So that you can feel secure in your perspective. That's okay. It's easier for you that way.

apple · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
I still haven't heard where all these fantastical Socialist countries are located. Also are people sneaking over the border just to get there like they do into the Capitalist countries?

Personally, I am not saying socialism is better than capitalism. I am of the belief that there are certain aspects of socialist society that are good and necessary.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

Tinydancer wrote:
I still haven't heard where all these fantastical Socialist countries are located. Also are people sneaking over the border just to get there like they do into the Capitalist countries?

Capitalist countries (like the USA) have weaker border control?

Ohfour · Hooker

Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
apple wrote:
Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
Socialism would end poverty.
Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.
That is patently false--and has been proven false over and over again by EVERY society that has tried socialism.
The HIGHEST standards of living in the world are in CAPITALIST nations. Socialist nations have among the lowest.
The same can be said of education and even poverty. Socialist nations have FAR higher levels of poverty than those in capitalist nations.
I don't know where you get your nonsense, but it is factually and historically false.
I enjoy your insistence that things you don't like or don't understand are 'patently false'. Without adding any actual data from a reliable source.
LOL!!! The reliable source is the HISTORY of the world--something which, apparently, you are not well versed in.
EVERYTHING I posted is verifiable fact. YOU are the one who cannot refute any of what I posted.
There is a plethora of information just in this thread that takes away your "verifiable" argument. You just have to keep arguing your own (incorrect and xenophobic) perspective. Likely with the hopes that people will get bored of pointing out your inability to recognize your own fallacies and stop arguing with you.
No, there is not. Everything I have posted is factually correct. You have posted nothing to refute anything I've posted--because you can't.
Sorry Husker. You're right. Everything that you think is factually correct. Even though you can see no farther than your immediate experience and warped beliefs. Sorry. Just keep arguing until everyone gives up.

You are the only one arguing. The rest of us agree with him. Learned it in elementary Social Studies...

apple · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
apple wrote:
Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
Socialism would end poverty.
Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.
That is patently false--and has been proven false over and over again by EVERY society that has tried socialism.
The HIGHEST standards of living in the world are in CAPITALIST nations. Socialist nations have among the lowest.
The same can be said of education and even poverty. Socialist nations have FAR higher levels of poverty than those in capitalist nations.
I don't know where you get your nonsense, but it is factually and historically false.
I enjoy your insistence that things you don't like or don't understand are 'patently false'. Without adding any actual data from a reliable source.
LOL!!! The reliable source is the HISTORY of the world--something which, apparently, you are not well versed in.
EVERYTHING I posted is verifiable fact. YOU are the one who cannot refute any of what I posted.
There is a plethora of information just in this thread that takes away your "verifiable" argument. You just have to keep arguing your own (incorrect and xenophobic) perspective. Likely with the hopes that people will get bored of pointing out your inability to recognize your own fallacies and stop arguing with you.
No, there is not. Everything I have posted is factually correct. You have posted nothing to refute anything I've posted--because you can't.
Sorry Husker. You're right. Everything that you think is factually correct. Even though you can see no farther than your immediate experience and warped beliefs. Sorry. Just keep arguing until everyone gives up.
You are the only one arguing. The rest of us agree with him. Learned it in elementary Social Studies...

No, she is not the only one who has a differing opinion.