TOTALLY GEEKED!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

RE: The Atheist Delusion’

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
VetteGirl wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
WYSIWYG is a strange kind of Christian. He doesn't believe the Bible is the word of God so agreeing with him should be easy for you.
- Tinydancer

_________________________________

I don't believe it to be the absolute and infallible Word of God. In that you are correct.

I believe it to be a group of men's best attempt to put to written word, the messages that God gave them. Some of those men inadvertently interspersed the True Message of God with their own biases and hatreds. I believe I once here compared it to the kindergarten game of "telephone". God whispered into a few people's ears, and then what God said was diluted over time and retelling and translating.
But if it isn't the perfect word of God, how do you know which parts to believe? Just pick and choose?
I am going to venture a guess:
You use your brain & heart & do your best. Obviously, many parts of the Old Testament are no longer adhered to.
flan

You mean you go along with the parts you like, and ignore the rest.

Tinydancer · Guru

Christians believe it's the actual word of God so being an atheist you can pick and choose whatever you want.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
VetteGirl wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
WYSIWYG is a strange kind of Christian. He doesn't believe the Bible is the word of God so agreeing with him should be easy for you.
- Tinydancer

_________________________________

I don't believe it to be the absolute and infallible Word of God. In that you are correct.

I believe it to be a group of men's best attempt to put to written word, the messages that God gave them. Some of those men inadvertently interspersed the True Message of God with their own biases and hatreds. I believe I once here compared it to the kindergarten game of "telephone". God whispered into a few people's ears, and then what God said was diluted over time and retelling and translating.
But if it isn't the perfect word of God, how do you know which parts to believe? Just pick and choose?
I am going to venture a guess:
You use your brain & heart & do your best. Obviously, many parts of the Old Testament are no longer adhered to.
flan
You mean you go along with the parts you like, and ignore the rest.

YOU answer Vette's question then.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
VetteGirl wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
WYSIWYG is a strange kind of Christian. He doesn't believe the Bible is the word of God so agreeing with him should be easy for you.
- Tinydancer

_________________________________

I don't believe it to be the absolute and infallible Word of God. In that you are correct.

I believe it to be a group of men's best attempt to put to written word, the messages that God gave them. Some of those men inadvertently interspersed the True Message of God with their own biases and hatreds. I believe I once here compared it to the kindergarten game of "telephone". God whispered into a few people's ears, and then what God said was diluted over time and retelling and translating.
But if it isn't the perfect word of God, how do you know which parts to believe? Just pick and choose?
I am going to venture a guess:
You use your brain & heart & do your best. Obviously, many parts of the Old Testament are no longer adhered to.
flan
You mean you go along with the parts you like, and ignore the rest.
YOU answer Vette's question then.
flan

You don't get to pick and choose because WYSIWYG is wrong about that. Christians believe it is the ACTUAL word of God. If you're picking and choosing you're not really a Christian at all. Oh and we don't follow all the rules of the Old Testament BECAUSE Jesus IS the son of GOD so there are no need for the old sacrifices and restrictions.

apple · Guru

When dealing with the bible, it is all a matter of interpretation.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

apple wrote:
When dealing with the bible, it is all a matter of interpretation.

No it's not.

apple · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:
When dealing with the bible, it is all a matter of interpretation.
No it's not.

Yes it is.

Interpretation is what it is all about, what makes different religions etc. They all say they are following the bible, correct?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
VetteGirl wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
WYSIWYG is a strange kind of Christian. He doesn't believe the Bible is the word of God so agreeing with him should be easy for you.
- Tinydancer

_________________________________

I don't believe it to be the absolute and infallible Word of God. In that you are correct.

I believe it to be a group of men's best attempt to put to written word, the messages that God gave them. Some of those men inadvertently interspersed the True Message of God with their own biases and hatreds. I believe I once here compared it to the kindergarten game of "telephone". God whispered into a few people's ears, and then what God said was diluted over time and retelling and translating.
But if it isn't the perfect word of God, how do you know which parts to believe? Just pick and choose?
I am going to venture a guess:
You use your brain & heart & do your best. Obviously, many parts of the Old Testament are no longer adhered to.
flan
You mean you go along with the parts you like, and ignore the rest.
YOU answer Vette's question then.
flan
You don't get to pick and choose because WYSIWYG is wrong about that. Christians believe it is the ACTUAL word of God. If you're picking and choosing you're not really a Christian at all. Oh and we don't follow all the rules of the Old Testament BECAUSE Jesus IS the son of GOD so there are no need for the old sacrifices and restrictions.

Funny. Jesus specifically said that the "old laws" were still to be adhered to. Mathew 5:17

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:
When dealing with the bible, it is all a matter of interpretation.
No it's not.
Yes it is.
Interpretation is what it is all about, what makes different religions etc. They all say they are following the bible, correct?

Translations differ. It's obvious.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
VetteGirl wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
WYSIWYG is a strange kind of Christian. He doesn't believe the Bible is the word of God so agreeing with him should be easy for you.
- Tinydancer

_________________________________

I don't believe it to be the absolute and infallible Word of God. In that you are correct.

I believe it to be a group of men's best attempt to put to written word, the messages that God gave them. Some of those men inadvertently interspersed the True Message of God with their own biases and hatreds. I believe I once here compared it to the kindergarten game of "telephone". God whispered into a few people's ears, and then what God said was diluted over time and retelling and translating.
But if it isn't the perfect word of God, how do you know which parts to believe? Just pick and choose?
I am going to venture a guess:
You use your brain & heart & do your best. Obviously, many parts of the Old Testament are no longer adhered to.
flan
You mean you go along with the parts you like, and ignore the rest.
YOU answer Vette's question then.
flan
You don't get to pick and choose because WYSIWYG is wrong about that. Christians believe it is the ACTUAL word of God. If you're picking and choosing you're not really a Christian at all. Oh and we don't follow all the rules of the Old Testament BECAUSE Jesus IS the son of GOD so there are no need for the old sacrifices and restrictions.
Funny. Jesus specifically said that the "old laws" were still to be adhered to. Mathew 5:17

Picking and choosing again. The laws related to cleanliness and sacrifices were fulfilled and no longer necessary b/c of Jesus' ultimate sacrifice gave us forgiveness. Since sins are forgiven, sacrifices are no longer necessary. Try reading Hebrews. And Mark 7:19 does away with the rules regarding cleanliness and food restriction.

Furthermore, after Matthew 5:17, Christ goes on to REITERATE the commandments in the New Testament. It also says he is not abolishing the law, he is FULFILLING it.

huskerbb · Guru

apple wrote:
When dealing with the bible, it is all a matter of interpretation.

Maybe, but WHOSE interpretation it is makes all the difference.

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:
When dealing with the bible, it is all a matter of interpretation.
No it's not.
Yes it is.
Interpretation is what it is all about, what makes different religions etc. They all say they are following the bible, correct?
Translations differ. It's obvious.
flan

No, they really do not. In language style, yes. In the fundamental tenets, no.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
VetteGirl wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
WYSIWYG is a strange kind of Christian. He doesn't believe the Bible is the word of God so agreeing with him should be easy for you.
- Tinydancer

_________________________________

I don't believe it to be the absolute and infallible Word of God. In that you are correct.

I believe it to be a group of men's best attempt to put to written word, the messages that God gave them. Some of those men inadvertently interspersed the True Message of God with their own biases and hatreds. I believe I once here compared it to the kindergarten game of "telephone". God whispered into a few people's ears, and then what God said was diluted over time and retelling and translating.
But if it isn't the perfect word of God, how do you know which parts to believe? Just pick and choose?
I am going to venture a guess:
You use your brain & heart & do your best. Obviously, many parts of the Old Testament are no longer adhered to.
flan
You mean you go along with the parts you like, and ignore the rest.
YOU answer Vette's question then.
flan
You don't get to pick and choose because WYSIWYG is wrong about that. Christians believe it is the ACTUAL word of God. If you're picking and choosing you're not really a Christian at all. Oh and we don't follow all the rules of the Old Testament BECAUSE Jesus IS the son of GOD so there are no need for the old sacrifices and restrictions.
Funny. Jesus specifically said that the "old laws" were still to be adhered to. Mathew 5:17

Wow. People who know NOTHING about the Bilbe might get that all the Jewish ceremonial laws are still in place. They are wrong.

Christ, himself is the New Covenant. He did not come to abolish the law--but ro fulfill it. He IS that fulfillment.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

All the different denominations have the same basic belief.

The only way to God is through accepting Jesus as your personal savior and then following the commandments in the Bible.

I don't think there is a Christian belief that differs on those two things.

apple · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
All the different denominations have the same basic belief.

The only way to God is through accepting Jesus as your personal savior and then following the commandments in the Bible.

I don't think there is a Christian belief that differs on those two things.

yes but the way people interpret and apply the commandments can be different, this is called interpretation and also one must remember the 10 commandments have been translated through several languages.

The Ten Commandments concern matters of fundamental importance in both Judaism and Christianity: the greatest obligation (to worship only God), the greatest injury to a person (murder), the greatest injury to family bonds (adultery), the greatest injury to commerce and law (bearing false witness), the greatest inter-generational obligation (honor to parents), the greatest obligation to community (truthfulness), the greatest injury to moveable property (theft).^[43]

The Ten Commandments are written with room for varying interpretation, reflecting their role as a summary of fundamental principles.^[18]^[43]^[44]^[45] They are not as explicit ^[43] or detailed as rules ^[46] or many other biblical laws and commandments, because they provide guiding principles that apply universally, across changing circumstances. They do not specify punishments for their violation. Their precise import must be worked out in each separate situation.^[46]

Tinydancer · Guru

Except we're not talking about interpretation. If you're a Christian you believe the Bible is the word of God. They can interperet the word of God in many ways but they all believe it to be the word of God (unless you're WYSIWYG, then you claim to be Christian anyways).

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Wednesday 8th of June 2016 03:16:31 PM

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I believe we have different convictions.

I know some who refuse to drink and others have no problem with it.

There is actually nothing in the Bible that says do not drink alcohol.

That is a matter of conviction and interpretation.

But the basic, do not kill, steal, lie. Those are not open to interpretation. They are clear.

There is the turn the other cheek, but there is also the command to shake off the dust from your feet when the person you are ministering to refuses to hear.

There really isn't a lot of interpretation needed when it comes to commands.

huskerbb · Guru

apple wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
All the different denominations have the same basic belief.

The only way to God is through accepting Jesus as your personal savior and then following the commandments in the Bible.

I don't think there is a Christian belief that differs on those two things.

yes but the way people interpret and apply the commandments can be different, this is called interpretation and also one must remember the 10 commandments have been translated through several languages.
The Ten Commandments concern matters of fundamental importance in both Judaism and Christianity: the greatest obligation (to worship only God), the greatest injury to a person (murder), the greatest injury to family bonds (adultery), the greatest injury to commerce and law (bearing false witness), the greatest inter-generational obligation (honor to parents), the greatest obligation to community (truthfulness), the greatest injury to moveable property (theft).^[43]
The Ten Commandments are written with room for varying interpretation, reflecting their role as a summary of fundamental principles.^[18]^[43]^[44]^[45] They are not as explicit ^[43] or detailed as rules ^[46] or many other biblical laws and commandments, because they provide guiding principles that apply universally, across changing circumstances. They do not specify punishments for their violation. Their precise import must be worked out in each separate situation.^[46]

No. They are interpreted the same. Punishment is the same--the wages of sin is death.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

A commandment is a rule. Not an idea.

com·mand·ment
kəˈman(d)mənt/
noun
noun: commandment; plural noun: commandments
a divine rule, especially one of the Ten Commandments.
a rule to be observed as strictly as one of the Ten Commandments

You can't interpret "Thou shall not kill" any other way.

A command is not up for interpretation.

Ohfour · Hooker

Except to libs....

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Well, they do confuse things a lot.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

People who don't believe in the Bible shouldn't try to quote bits and pieces. It just shows ignorance.

WYSIWYG · Guru

But if it isn't the perfect word of God, how do you know which parts to believe? Just pick and choose?
- VetteGirl

_________________________________

You use the brain that God created us with to determine what a Just and Loving God would want us to believe in his name and how He would want us to act towards others. You also take into account that while the Bible was inspired by God, it was written by men, and as we all know, men are fallible creatures, prone to all sorts of ungodly things.

For example, we are not to judge others. We are to leave the judging to God. We are not qualified to judge what is in people's hearts, only God can do that because only He knows that.

So to answer your last question, no it's not just "pick and choose", it's the literal application of the question: "What would Jesus do?"

WYSIWYG · Guru

That's why I said WYSIWYG is a strange kind of Christian. Christians believe the Bible is the word of God so I'm not even sure why he calls himself one.
- Tinydancer

______________________________

Which one? Which Bible is the absolute perfect word of God? The Catholic one, or one of the myriad the Protestant ones?

And if even one of them can be wrong (which must be the case, as there are glaring differences between the two. Namely more books in the Catholic Bible), why can't both of them be wrong?

Christians believe that Christ is the way to everlasting life. Christians follow and believe in Christ. Wouldn't we be called "Biblians", or something like that, if we followed The Bible instead?

It's my belief that a good Christian follows the intent of the Bible without getting trapped in Man's mistakes and errors in writing or translating it.

WYSIWYG · Guru

You don't get to pick and choose because WYSIWYG is wrong about that. Christians believe it is the ACTUAL word of God. If you're picking and choosing you're not really a Christian at all. Oh and we don't follow all the rules of the Old Testament BECAUSE Jesus IS the son of GOD so there are no need for the old sacrifices and restrictions.
- Tinydancer

___________________________________

Not all Christians believe what you said in your second sentence. You may think it's true, but you'd be sadly mistaken in that belief.

I do agree with you that what's no longer to be followed from the Old Testament was done away with by Jesus' birth, life, teachings, and subsequent sacrifice for our sins.

WYSIWYG · Guru

All the different denominations have the same basic belief.

The only way to God is through accepting Jesus as your personal savior and then following the commandments in the Bible.

I don't think there is a Christian belief that differs on those two things.
- lilyofcourse

________________________________

I agree with this 100%

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
People who don't believe in the Bible shouldn't try to quote bits and pieces. It just shows ignorance.

I believe the Bible contains a lot of wisdom, and will continue to quote it where applicable.

flan

Vette · Owl drink to that!

I'm sorry but if I despised a certain religion, or thought it was ludicrous or had any negative feelings towards it whatsoever, I would not bother reading, quoting or otherwise associating myself with its most holy teachings no matter what they said. But I guess that's just me.

apple · Guru

Flan, do you despise a certain religion?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

apple wrote:
Flan, do you despise a certain religion?

Nope.

I try not to blame the religion for the behavior of its professed followers, either.

flan

Vette · Owl drink to that!

Apple obviously neglected to finish reading my sentence

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I like both of you guys.

flan

apple · Guru

VetteGirl wrote:
Apple obviously neglected to finish reading my sentence

My bad?

biggrin I was really just curious to see what Flan had to say.

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
You don't get to pick and choose because WYSIWYG is wrong about that. Christians believe it is the ACTUAL word of God. If you're picking and choosing you're not really a Christian at all. Oh and we don't follow all the rules of the Old Testament BECAUSE Jesus IS the son of GOD so there are no need for the old sacrifices and restrictions.
- Tinydancer

___________________________________

Not all Christians believe what you said in your second sentence. You may think it's true, but you'd be sadly mistaken in that belief.

I do agree with you that what's no longer to be followed from the Old Testament was done away with by Jesus' birth, life, teachings, and subsequent sacrifice for our sins.

If you don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God--AND God incarnate--then you are not Christian. Period.

You can call yourself whatever you want--but that is the essence of Christianity.

I could call myself a Muslim--but if I don't believe that Mohammed is Allah's prophet--would I be? Of course not. Same thing.

WYSIWYG · Guru

If you don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God--AND God incarnate--then you are not Christian. Period.
- huskerbb

___________________________________

Where did you get anything arguing against that point in what I wrote that you quoted?

You are wrong about that, by the way. There are several Christian denominations that do not believe in the Trinity doctrine. You might try Google if you are curious about that. The difference in that belief being one of the myriad reasons I don't attend Church anymore.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
If you don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God--AND God incarnate--then you are not Christian. Period.
- huskerbb

___________________________________

Where did you get anything arguing against that point in what I wrote that you quoted?

You are wrong about that, by the way. There are several Christian denominations that do not believe in the Trinity doctrine. You might try Google if you are curious about that. The difference in that belief being one of the myriad reasons I don't attend Church anymore.

THey can call themselves 'Christian denominations" but they used to be called heretics. Which they still are.

WYSIWYG · Guru

THey can call themselves 'Christian denominations" but they used to be called heretics. Which they still are.
- Lady Gaga Snerd

The exact same can be said of Lutherans or Protestants or Presbyterians. They are all denominations as well, and because of their split from the Catholic church, over differences of belief, they were all heretical to Catholicism, back in their early days.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

WYSIWYG wrote:
THey can call themselves 'Christian denominations" but they used to be called heretics. Which they still are.
- Lady Gaga Snerd

The exact same can be said of Lutherans or Protestants or Presbyterians. They are all denominations as well, and because of their split from the Catholic church, over differences of belief, they were all heretical to Catholicism, back in their early days.

You beat me to it!

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
THey can call themselves 'Christian denominations" but they used to be called heretics. Which they still are.
- Lady Gaga Snerd

The exact same can be said of Lutherans or Protestants or Presbyterians. They are all denominations as well, and because of their split from the Catholic church, over differences of belief, they were all heretical to Catholicism, back in their early days.

Heretical to Catholicism and heretical to Christianity are 2 different things. Catholics and most Protestant denominations agree on the basic tenets of Christianity.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

There are a lot of people, myself included, who would argue that catholics are not Christian, which is why so many denominations broke away from them.

They worship more than just God our father for example (the virgin mary). They believe that not just faith in Jesus get you to heaven, but also good works and baptism. These are two huge examples but there are plenty of others.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Heretical to Catholicism and heretical to Christianity are 2 different things. Catholics and most Protestant denominations agree on the basic tenets of Christianity.
-Lady Gaga Snerd

_______________________________

That would depend upon whom you ask and when you asked it. When they broke away, Catholicism basically was Christianity. So for there to be any difference between them (Catholicism and the breakaway denominations) was heresy by the new denominations.

But I think you already knew that and just hate to admit it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

VetteGirl wrote:
There are a lot of people, myself included, who would argue that catholics are not Christian, which is why so many denominations broke away from them.

They worship more than just God our father for example (the virgin mary). They believe that not just faith in Jesus get you to heaven, but also good works and baptism. These are two huge examples but there are plenty of others.

I've never heard that, Vette. Interesting.

I was never taught to worship Mary. We were told to pray to her because she could intercede on our behalf. And she certainly plays an important role in Catholic faith.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

VetteGirl wrote:
There are a lot of people, myself included, who would argue that catholics are not Christian, which is why so many denominations broke away from them.

They worship more than just God our father for example (the virgin mary). They believe that not just faith in Jesus get you to heaven, but also good works and baptism. These are two huge examples but there are plenty of others.

I agree.

The Bible clearly states there is only one way to God and that is through Jesus.