TOTALLY GEEKED!

apple wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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apple wrote:

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hmmm...

Americans carrying guns concealed or otherwise, its up to them.
Saying that it isn't the norm here (Canada), is not attacking Americans, its just saying that we do things differently.

I know that the Americans I know who have guns, some have them beside them as they sleep even, admit it is because they fear harm to themselves or their loved ones. Fear is the reason people buy guns, to protect themselves.
Why do some of you find that offensive to say or admit? I don't get that part.....

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 Why do you continually assume to know what other people feel?  

 

And Cananda's laws have nothing to do with America - so you bringing up Canada all the time is irrelevant.  It's like you are fishing so you can accuse people of bashing Canada when we don't agree with how Canada does things.  

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 No not at all. I see that just by saying that people buy guns to protect themselves because the are in fear of being attacked, gets you all defensive, I'm just trying to figure out why.

I've said nothing other than we are different, America and Canada, on the topic of guns. Its been gone over on this thread, I didn't introduce that idea. We were even joking about it....

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 So, when you bring up Canada on a thread about America's laws, it's just to show that things are different, not to bash America.

But, when I make a general comment about the moral decline of society on a thread about Canada's laws, that is bashing Canada.

Uh huh.  

And being prepared is not the same thing as living in fear. 

Have you ever been the victim of a crime, apple?  Have you ever had an intruder in your house?  Have you ever been robbed, or hit?  

I have had my house broken into when I was a child and my mother woke up with a strange man at the foot of her bed.  After she chased him off with scissors, HE CAME BACK and robbed the house while we were at the neighbors.

I have had my purse stolen.

I had my college apartment broken into and my underwear stolen.

I have been attacked and punched in the face.  

But I still live my life normally, sometimes leaving the doors unlocked, walking the dog by myself at night, letting my kids play outside while I'm in the house.  I just do it with a gun nearby JUST IN CASE.

Crime happens.  It's a fact of life.  Being prepared to deal with it is not the same as living in fear.  

apple wrote:

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"And being prepared is not the same thing as living in fear."

Prepared for what? Being attacked? so just admit it you buy a gun because you are afraid you will be attacked. Whats the big deal?

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 Because that's not really the only reason I have a gun.  Yes, it's for self defense, but even without that aspect, I'd still own guns. 

flan327 wrote:

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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apple wrote:

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Protection from what? There is nothing wrong with saying you are afraid of something.

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 Do you use sunscreen?  Take vitamins?

Do you make sure your car is running properly? That there is a fire extinguisher in the house?

Do you take regular precautions? 

It isn't that you fear anything happening.

But you are prepared if it does.

 

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 Here we go again.

ALL those things affect ME, and only me. Shooting another human being...the very idea is just anathema to me.

And yes, I'm sure a few of you good Christians would love for something to happen, just so you could prove your point.

flan

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 Yeah, and if someone breaks into my house at 3 am to rob me, that affects ME.  If someone tries to carjack me, that affects ME.  If i am walking in the woods and a snake or bear would try to attack me, that affects ME.  

 

Oh, and here we go with the Christian Card again AD NAUSEUM.

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 Poor baby!

I'm too tired to argue in circles this morning.

In each scenario you posted, YOU are not the ONLY one affected.

flan

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 What the heck????

You've gone over the deep end.

apple wrote:

---

hmmm...

Americans carrying guns concealed or otherwise, its up to them.
Saying that it isn't the norm here (Canada), is not attacking Americans, its just saying that we do things differently.

I know that the Americans I know who have guns, some have them beside them as they sleep even, admit it is because they fear harm to themselves or their loved ones. Fear is the reason people buy guns, to protect themselves.
Why do some of you find that offensive to say or admit? I don't get that part.....

---

 It's fear???? 

That's rich.

You asked why carry.

I gave you reasons.

You don't have guns out of fear. Not everyone.

You ever leave work at 3 am with large bank drops? 

Was I afraid someone was waiting behind the car to rob me? No.

Was I prepared if that ever happened? Yes.

You want to label gun owners as fearful.

But that isn't the truth. 

The truth is, it is a constitutional right and most of us just like having them.

apple wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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The 2nd amendment is to protect the people against a tyrannical government.

It also always for an armed militia. In our short 250 year history, we've had the revolutionary war, the War of 1812, the Civil War fought on our own land, we've sent people to fight in WWI, WWII (and America was attacked), the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, and the Iraqi War - plus all those "non-wars". We've been attacked repeatedly on own soil by terrorists.

Africa and the Middle East are being torn apart by ISIS and government coups.

Having a gun is about being a patriotic American - prepared to protect our country if necessary, and prepared to protect the people against the government of our country if necessary.

---

 I get all that and how the 2nd amendment is interpreted by many into modern times.

What I don't get is the bolded, protecting the people....yet according to the CDC, 91 Americans are killed with guns, in America, by Americans, each and every day. (on average).

 

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 I have NEVER heard that, unless I own a gun, I am NOT a "patriotic" American.

That's not your place to say, frankly.

flan

lilyofcourse wrote:

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apple wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

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The 2nd amendment is to protect the people against a tyrannical government.

It also always for an armed militia. In our short 250 year history, we've had the revolutionary war, the War of 1812, the Civil War fought on our own land, we've sent people to fight in WWI, WWII (and America was attacked), the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, and the Iraqi War - plus all those "non-wars". We've been attacked repeatedly on own soil by terrorists.

Africa and the Middle East are being torn apart by ISIS and government coups.

Having a gun is about being a patriotic American - prepared to protect our country if necessary, and prepared to protect the people against the government of our country if necessary.

---

 I get all that and how the 2nd amendment is interpreted by many into modern times.

What I don't get is the bolded, protecting the people....yet according to the CDC, 91 Americans are killed with guns, in America, by Americans, each and every day. (on average).

 

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 And of those 91 people, what are the circumstances? 

 

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 Does it matter? The point is that instead of protecting you from the government and invasion, you are killing each other.

apple wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

---

apple wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

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The 2nd amendment is to protect the people against a tyrannical government.

It also always for an armed militia. In our short 250 year history, we've had the revolutionary war, the War of 1812, the Civil War fought on our own land, we've sent people to fight in WWI, WWII (and America was attacked), the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, and the Iraqi War - plus all those "non-wars". We've been attacked repeatedly on own soil by terrorists.

Africa and the Middle East are being torn apart by ISIS and government coups.

Having a gun is about being a patriotic American - prepared to protect our country if necessary, and prepared to protect the people against the government of our country if necessary.

---

 I get all that and how the 2nd amendment is interpreted by many into modern times.

What I don't get is the bolded, protecting the people....yet according to the CDC, 91 Americans are killed with guns, in America, by Americans, each and every day. (on average).

 

---

 And of those 91 people, what are the circumstances? 

 

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 Does it matter? The point is that instead of protecting you from the government and invasion, you are killing each other.

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Absolutely it does.  If a man is shot because he's about to rape me or another woman, then that's self defense... 

flan327 wrote:

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Or they were having an argument over who gets the last serving of ribs...or an ex decided to shoot his former GF...

flan

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And so I shouldn't own a gun because someone else is an idiot?  THAT'S intelligent... 

Ohfour wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Or they were having an argument over who gets the last serving of ribs...or an ex decided to shoot his former GF...

flan

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And so I shouldn't own a gun because someone else is an idiot?  THAT'S intelligent... 

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 Twisting my words again.

You implied that all the deaths were self-defense.

flan

apple wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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apple wrote:

---

hmmm...

Americans carrying guns concealed or otherwise, its up to them.
Saying that it isn't the norm here (Canada), is not attacking Americans, its just saying that we do things differently.

I know that the Americans I know who have guns, some have them beside them as they sleep even, admit it is because they fear harm to themselves or their loved ones. Fear is the reason people buy guns, to protect themselves.
Why do some of you find that offensive to say or admit? I don't get that part.....

---

 It's fear???? 

That's rich.

You asked why carry.

I gave you reasons.

You don't have guns out of fear. Not everyone.

You ever leave work at 3 am with large bank drops? 

Was I afraid someone was waiting behind the car to rob me? No.

Was I prepared if that ever happened? Yes.

You want to label gun owners as fearful.

But that isn't the truth. 

The truth is, it is a constitutional right and most of us just like having them.

---

 You leave work at 3 am with bank drops and you are not afraid. You should be.

For crying out loud, what is wrong with admitting you would buy or carry a gun because you are afraid you might be attacked. Yes fear. so what?

 

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 I've never, in my life, been attacked.

Never had anyone break into my house. 

I'm more concerned with the coyote than people.

You think having a gun means fear.

That's weak minded thinking.

lilyofcourse wrote:

---

apple wrote:

---

lilyofcourse wrote:

---

apple wrote:

---

hmmm...

Americans carrying guns concealed or otherwise, its up to them.
Saying that it isn't the norm here (Canada), is not attacking Americans, its just saying that we do things differently.

I know that the Americans I know who have guns, some have them beside them as they sleep even, admit it is because they fear harm to themselves or their loved ones. Fear is the reason people buy guns, to protect themselves.
Why do some of you find that offensive to say or admit? I don't get that part.....

---

 It's fear???? 

That's rich.

You asked why carry.

I gave you reasons.

You don't have guns out of fear. Not everyone.

You ever leave work at 3 am with large bank drops? 

Was I afraid someone was waiting behind the car to rob me? No.

Was I prepared if that ever happened? Yes.

You want to label gun owners as fearful.

But that isn't the truth. 

The truth is, it is a constitutional right and most of us just like having them.

---

 You leave work at 3 am with bank drops and you are not afraid. You should be.

For crying out loud, what is wrong with admitting you would buy or carry a gun because you are afraid you might be attacked. Yes fear. so what?

 

---

 I've never, in my life, been attacked.

Never had anyone break into my house. 

I'm more concerned with the coyote than people.

You think having a gun means fear.

That's weak minded thinking.

 

---

 What is weak minded is being unable and unwilling to admit the truth. 

apple wrote:

---

Ohfour wrote:

---

apple wrote:

---

lilyofcourse wrote:

---

apple wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

The 2nd amendment is to protect the people against a tyrannical government.

It also always for an armed militia. In our short 250 year history, we've had the revolutionary war, the War of 1812, the Civil War fought on our own land, we've sent people to fight in WWI, WWII (and America was attacked), the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, and the Iraqi War - plus all those "non-wars". We've been attacked repeatedly on own soil by terrorists.

Africa and the Middle East are being torn apart by ISIS and government coups.

Having a gun is about being a patriotic American - prepared to protect our country if necessary, and prepared to protect the people against the government of our country if necessary.

---

 I get all that and how the 2nd amendment is interpreted by many into modern times.

What I don't get is the bolded, protecting the people....yet according to the CDC, 91 Americans are killed with guns, in America, by Americans, each and every day. (on average).

 

---

 And of those 91 people, what are the circumstances? 

 

---

 Does it matter? The point is that instead of protecting you from the government and invasion, you are killing each other.

---

Absolutely it does.  If a man is shot because he's about to rape me or another woman, then that's self defense... 

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 Out of the 91 shot to death today, do you think any are innocents like children, bystanders, or accidental? Or would you believe that they are all people who are shot in self defense?

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 No. I expect for some to be innocent.

And that's a shame and each case should be punished.

But how many are in the act of committing a crime? 

flan327 wrote:

---

lilyofcourse wrote:

---

apple wrote:

---

lilyofcourse wrote:

---

apple wrote:

---

hmmm...

Americans carrying guns concealed or otherwise, its up to them.
Saying that it isn't the norm here (Canada), is not attacking Americans, its just saying that we do things differently.

I know that the Americans I know who have guns, some have them beside them as they sleep even, admit it is because they fear harm to themselves or their loved ones. Fear is the reason people buy guns, to protect themselves.
Why do some of you find that offensive to say or admit? I don't get that part.....

---

 It's fear???? 

That's rich.

You asked why carry.

I gave you reasons.

You don't have guns out of fear. Not everyone.

You ever leave work at 3 am with large bank drops? 

Was I afraid someone was waiting behind the car to rob me? No.

Was I prepared if that ever happened? Yes.

You want to label gun owners as fearful.

But that isn't the truth. 

The truth is, it is a constitutional right and most of us just like having them.

---

 You leave work at 3 am with bank drops and you are not afraid. You should be.

For crying out loud, what is wrong with admitting you would buy or carry a gun because you are afraid you might be attacked. Yes fear. so what?

 

---

 I've never, in my life, been attacked.

Never had anyone break into my house. 

I'm more concerned with the coyote than people.

You think having a gun means fear.

That's weak minded thinking.

 

---

 So getting annual mammograms & taking vitamins is also "weak-minded?"

flan

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 You just can't keep up. 

Prevention, my dear.

Now don't interrupt grown ups when they are talking.

apple wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

The 2nd amendment is to protect the people against a tyrannical government.

It also always for an armed militia. In our short 250 year history, we've had the revolutionary war, the War of 1812, the Civil War fought on our own land, we've sent people to fight in WWI, WWII (and America was attacked), the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, and the Iraqi War - plus all those "non-wars". We've been attacked repeatedly on own soil by terrorists.

Africa and the Middle East are being torn apart by ISIS and government coups.

Having a gun is about being a patriotic American - prepared to protect our country if necessary, and prepared to protect the people against the government of our country if necessary.

---

 I get all that and how the 2nd amendment is interpreted by many into modern times.

What I don't get is the bolded, protecting the people....yet according to the CDC, 91 Americans are killed with guns, in America, by Americans, each and every day. (on average).

 

---

 CRIMINALS with guns.  And restricting guns for law abiding citizens is going to do nothing to stop the criminals.

And more people are SAVED with guns than killed.

flan327 wrote:

---

apple wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

---

The 2nd amendment is to protect the people against a tyrannical government.

It also always for an armed militia. In our short 250 year history, we've had the revolutionary war, the War of 1812, the Civil War fought on our own land, we've sent people to fight in WWI, WWII (and America was attacked), the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, and the Iraqi War - plus all those "non-wars". We've been attacked repeatedly on own soil by terrorists.

Africa and the Middle East are being torn apart by ISIS and government coups.

Having a gun is about being a patriotic American - prepared to protect our country if necessary, and prepared to protect the people against the government of our country if necessary.

---

 I get all that and how the 2nd amendment is interpreted by many into modern times.

What I don't get is the bolded, protecting the people....yet according to the CDC, 91 Americans are killed with guns, in America, by Americans, each and every day. (on average).

 

---

 I have NEVER heard that, unless I own a gun, I am NOT a "patriotic" American.

That's not your place to say, frankly.

flan

---

 I'm entitled to my opinion, remember? 

apple wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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apple wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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You seem to be having comprehension issues today apple...

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 Not really I'm just a bit confused, or befuddled, by the absolute denial of a certain word.  

Perhaps I'll have to just live with it, seeing as nobody wants to enlighten me. 

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 Perhaps you should just stop trying to assume what other people think or feel.

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 I am not assuming, I'm trying to apply logic to an illogical debate.

 

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 The basis for your logic is flawed.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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apple wrote:

---

Lawyerlady wrote:

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apple wrote:

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Ohfour wrote:

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You seem to be having comprehension issues today apple...

---

 Not really I'm just a bit confused, or befuddled, by the absolute denial of a certain word.  

Perhaps I'll have to just live with it, seeing as nobody wants to enlighten me. 

---

 Perhaps you should just stop trying to assume what other people think or feel.

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 I am not assuming, I'm trying to apply logic to an illogical debate.

 

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 The basis for your logic is flawed.

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 No it is not flawed, it is quite logical. 

Why do gun sales go up markedly after mass shootings? 

Fears of crime, mass shootings, social collapse....people buy guns for these reasons yet refuse to acknowledge it. Why?

apple wrote:

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About 32,000 people are shot and killed every year in the United States. An additional 70,000 suffer non-fatal injuries from gun shots, three-quarters of which are due to interpersonal violence. Since 1968, more people

have been killed by firearms on this civilian ‘peacetime’ battleground across the US than in all military conflicts beginning with the War of Independence in 1775. In 1997, the rate of firearm deaths among children under 15

years old was about 12 times higher in the US than the combined rate for 25 other industrialised countries. And in 2010, firearms accounted for 18,270 deaths or injuries to children and teenagers. The number of deaths

due to guns has gone down from a peak in the early 1990s, but firearms still account for half the suicides and over two-thirds of all homicides. It is just a whole lot easier to kill with a bullet than by strangling, drowning,

poisoning, or with fists, clubs and knives. But despite these ghastly statistics, one constantly encounters stickers, cable news hosts, and editorials insisting that guns save lives.



The best science indicates that more guns leads to more deaths.

aeon.co/essays/the-us-gun-lobby-says-that-guns-save-lives-do-they

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Well, my town and others like it prove the exact opposite.  The areas with tight gun laws are actually the most dangerous. 

It's the criminals, not the law abiding citizens that are committing these crimes.  If  you limit gun control, then only the criminals will have guns.  See Chicago and DC...