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Post Info TOPIC: Guess which country has the most mass shootings in the world?


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Guess which country has the most mass shootings in the world?
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Speaking Friday on CNN Newsroom with Carol Costello, perennial gun rights advocate John Lott said, “My solution for these mass shootings is to look at the fact that every single time, these attacks occur where guns are banned. Every single time.”

That’s neither true in general nor true in this instance. The FBI tells us that active-shooter scenarios occur in all sorts of environments where guns are allowed—homes, businesses, outdoor spaces. (In fact, there was another mass shooting the same day as the Oregon massacre, leaving three dead and one severely wounded in a home in North Florida.) And Umpqua Community College itself wasn’t a gun-free zone. Oregon is one of seven states that allow guns on college campuses—the consequence of a 2011 court decision that overturned a longstanding ban. In 2012, the state board of education introduced several limitations on campus carry, but those were not widely enforced.

School policy at UCC does ban students from carrying guns into buildings except as “authorized by law,” but at least one student interpreted his concealed handgun license as legal authorization.
John Parker Jr., an Umpqua student and Air Force veteran, told multiple media outlets that he was armed and on campus at the time of the attack last week. Parker and other student veterans (perhaps also armed) thought about intervening. “Luckily we made the choice not to get involved,” Parker told MSNBC. “We were quite a distance away from the actual building where it was happening, which could have opened us up to being potential targets ourselves.”


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apple wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Again, my uncle, aunt 2 cousins and a whole lot of friends who are actually police officers have told me the same thing.

Aim center mass. Largest target, it'll stop most people.


 Right so why do the police and military bother to train at all? Its so easy to shoot someone....confuse Especially in panic mode.


 I'm trying to have a real conversation with you, but you're beginning to sound as stupid as Flan.

When aiming center mass, you are more likely to hit something as compared to aiming at a leg or head.

Point and shoot toward a center mass.

That's for laymen.

Of course the professionals are more, well, professional. 

 



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As for targets, do you expect to get shot in a church? A club or school?

Much like the alligators at Disney, you just don't think about getting shot at the mall or movies.

But it happens.

The sign says no guns.

But then 50 people are shot.

Signs don't stop bad things from happening.

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Ohfour wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Again, my uncle, aunt 2 cousins and a whole lot of friends who are actually police officers have told me the same thing.

Aim center mass. Largest target, it'll stop most people.


 Yep! Thats whats taught in HCP class. Oh, and those are taught by LEOs here....


 And the former LEO that spoke to us had a 97% accuracy rate...shooting a PAPER target.

flan



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lilyofcourse wrote:

As for targets, do you expect to get shot in a church? A club or school?

Much like the alligators at Disney, you just don't think about getting shot at the mall or movies.

But it happens.

The sign says no guns.

But then 50 people are shot.

Signs don't stop bad things from happening.


 The FBI tells us that active-shooter scenarios occur in all sorts of environments where guns are allowed—homes, businesses, outdoor spaces.

hmm



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Hooker

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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Again, my uncle, aunt 2 cousins and a whole lot of friends who are actually police officers have told me the same thing.

Aim center mass. Largest target, it'll stop most people.


 Yep! Thats whats taught in HCP class. Oh, and those are taught by LEOs here....


 And the former LEO that spoke to us had a 97% accuracy rate...shooting a PAPER target.

flan


 Meh, I'll take the word of the actual LEO that trained us (a cop that arrested me multiple times as a teen), over tour supposed lecturer..

 



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The following is a chart of mass shooting statistics, when corrected for population. It shows that the U.S. has comparable frequency to other nations when accounting for its large population size. It should also be noted that the U.S. by far has most armed citizens in the world.

Screenshot - 6_18_2015 , 9_43_12 PM


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apple wrote:

Speaking Friday on CNN Newsroom with Carol Costello, perennial gun rights advocate John Lott said, “My solution for these mass shootings is to look at the fact that every single time, these attacks occur where guns are banned. Every single time.”

That’s neither true in general nor true in this instance. The FBI tells us that active-shooter scenarios occur in all sorts of environments where guns are allowed—homes, businesses, outdoor spaces. (In fact, there was another mass shooting the same day as the Oregon massacre, leaving three dead and one severely wounded in a home in North Florida.) And Umpqua Community College itself wasn’t a gun-free zone. Oregon is one of seven states that allow guns on college campuses—the consequence of a 2011 court decision that overturned a longstanding ban. In 2012, the state board of education introduced several limitations on campus carry, but those were not widely enforced.

School policy at UCC does ban students from carrying guns into buildings except as “authorized by law,” but at least one student interpreted his concealed handgun license as legal authorization.
John Parker Jr., an Umpqua student and Air Force veteran, told multiple media outlets that he was armed and on campus at the time of the attack last week. Parker and other student veterans (perhaps also armed) thought about intervening. “Luckily we made the choice not to get involved,” Parker told MSNBC. “We were quite a distance away from the actual building where it was happening, which could have opened us up to being potential targets ourselves.”


Umpqua Community College, not a gun free zone....



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Calling me a LIAR again...

How do I know that an "actual LEO" trained you? How do I know that you ever had any training?

flan

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Deflect, deflect, deflect...

flan



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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Again, my uncle, aunt 2 cousins and a whole lot of friends who are actually police officers have told me the same thing.

Aim center mass. Largest target, it'll stop most people.


 Yep! Thats whats taught in HCP class. Oh, and those are taught by LEOs here....


 And the former LEO that spoke to us had a 97% accuracy rate...shooting a PAPER target.

flan


 Yes. Because shooting a paper target that doesn't move is easier than a live, moving, real human.

That's WHY aiming at the LARGEST area makes the most sense.

GOOD GOD you are slow.



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flan327 wrote:

Calling me a LIAR again...

How do I know that an "actual LEO" trained you? How do I know that you ever had any training?

flan


 Because my life is an open book. And I dont lie. Others here can back up every single thing I say....



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flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

As for targets, do you expect to get shot in a church? A club or school?

Much like the alligators at Disney, you just don't think about getting shot at the mall or movies.

But it happens.

The sign says no guns.

But then 50 people are shot.

Signs don't stop bad things from happening.


 The FBI tells us that active-shooter scenarios occur in all sorts of environments where guns are allowed—homes, businesses, outdoor spaces.

hmm


 Is this the same FBI that is unable/prevented from watching Muslims?



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Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:

Calling me a LIAR again...

How do I know that an "actual LEO" trained you? How do I know that you ever had any training?

flan


 Because my life is an open book. And I dont lie. Others here can back up every single thing I say....


 Well, then I can't help you.

So who here went to training with you and can "back you up?"

flan



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Frozen Sucks!

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apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 What are you babbling about?  The good guys in the scenario are trained and don't just shoot willy nilly.  Do you really have that much of a lack of a grasp on how trained gunman behave?  Shoot?  And people caught in the crossfire?  Sure, a few maybe at most, but when unarmed people hear gunfire they either hit the deck or run.  



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apple wrote:
apple wrote:

Speaking Friday on CNN Newsroom with Carol Costello, perennial gun rights advocate John Lott said, “My solution for these mass shootings is to look at the fact that every single time, these attacks occur where guns are banned. Every single time.”

That’s neither true in general nor true in this instance. The FBI tells us that active-shooter scenarios occur in all sorts of environments where guns are allowed—homes, businesses, outdoor spaces. (In fact, there was another mass shooting the same day as the Oregon massacre, leaving three dead and one severely wounded in a home in North Florida.) And Umpqua Community College itself wasn’t a gun-free zone. Oregon is one of seven states that allow guns on college campuses—the consequence of a 2011 court decision that overturned a longstanding ban. In 2012, the state board of education introduced several limitations on campus carry, but those were not widely enforced.

School policy at UCC does ban students from carrying guns into buildings except as “authorized by law,” but at least one student interpreted his concealed handgun license as legal authorization.
John Parker Jr., an Umpqua student and Air Force veteran, told multiple media outlets that he was armed and on campus at the time of the attack last week. Parker and other student veterans (perhaps also armed) thought about intervening. “Luckily we made the choice not to get involved,” Parker told MSNBC. “We were quite a distance away from the actual building where it was happening, which could have opened us up to being potential targets ourselves.”


Umpqua Community College, not a gun free zone....


 

Logo_HuffPost-56c414db1cdce352254cddf571
 
 
POLITICS

Umpqua Community College Wasn’t Exactly A ‘Gun-Free Zone’

The school did have policies prohibiting guns, but they wouldn’t apply to those with a valid permit.

 Oct 20, 2015
original.jpg

The following post first appeared on Factcheck.org

In the wake of the mass shooting at an Oregon community college, Donald Trump and other Republican presidential candidates claimed that the school was a “gun-free zone.” That’s not exactly accurate.

Umpqua Community College does have policies prohibiting guns on campus, but they “would not apply to those with valid concealed weapon permits pursuant to Oregon law,” a college official told us.

The Oct. 1 shooting at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon, left 10 people dead, including the shooter. Trump, the Republican party’s leading candidate for president, was one of several GOP candidates who criticized the school’s policies on guns. He did so, for example, during an interview on “Fox and Friends Weekend” ( at the 2:25-minute mark).

Trump, Oct. 4: You know that was a gun-free zone in Oregon where they had no guns allowed, no nothing. So the only one that had the gun was the bad guy, and everybody was sitting there and there was nothing they could do. Not a thing they could do.

Mike Huckabee also used the “sitting duck” analogy in a tweet posted to his Twitter account a day after the shooting with the hashtag #UCCshooting. Carly Fiorina at an Oct. 2 press conference said about UCC: “This campus was a gun-free zone.”

The confusion is understandable. The school has two policies that prohibit weapons on campus under certain conditions.

The school’s student conduct policy states that students cannot carry a weapon “without written authorization.”

“Possession or use, without written authorization, of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals, substances, or any other weapons or destructive devices that are designed to or readily capable of causing physical injury, on College premises, at College-sponsored or supervised functions or at functions sponsored or participated in by the College” is prohibited, the student conduct policy states.

There is also a general prohibition on bringing weapons on campus “except as expressly authorized by law or college regulations.”

“Possession, use, or threatened use of firearms (including but not limited to BB guns, air guns, water pistols, and paint guns) ammunition, explosives, dangerous chemicals, or any other objects as weapons on college property, except as expressly authorized by law or college regulations, is prohibited,” the school says on a web page labeled “safety & security info.”

The state, however, has a 1989 concealed weapon law that conflicts with such gun bans. State law expressly states (in section 166.170) that the authority to regulate the possession of guns or “or any element relating to firearms” is “vested solely in the Legislative Assembly.”



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Frozen Sucks!

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apple wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Thats what I'm getting at. People seem to think John Wayne is going to ride in on his horse with his six shooter and take out all the bad guys then ride off into the sunset, hero that he is. 

The reality is that most gun owners are not trained to handle a situation like this and would most likely make it worse. IMO


 That is your OPINION???? Seriously?  You are just making it up.  In FACT, most gun owners, legal ones, are trained to handle many types of situation.



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Frozen Sucks!

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apple wrote:

Speaking Friday on CNN Newsroom with Carol Costello, perennial gun rights advocate John Lott said, “My solution for these mass shootings is to look at the fact that every single time, these attacks occur where guns are banned. Every single time.”

That’s neither true in general nor true in this instance. The FBI tells us that active-shooter scenarios occur in all sorts of environments where guns are allowed—homes, businesses, outdoor spaces. (In fact, there was another mass shooting the same day as the Oregon massacre, leaving three dead and one severely wounded in a home in North Florida.) And Umpqua Community College itself wasn’t a gun-free zone. Oregon is one of seven states that allow guns on college campuses—the consequence of a 2011 court decision that overturned a longstanding ban. In 2012, the state board of education introduced several limitations on campus carry, but those were not widely enforced.

School policy at UCC does ban students from carrying guns into buildings except as “authorized by law,” but at least one student interpreted his concealed handgun license as legal authorization.
John Parker Jr., an Umpqua student and Air Force veteran, told multiple media outlets that he was armed and on campus at the time of the attack last week. Parker and other student veterans (perhaps also armed) thought about intervening. “Luckily we made the choice not to get involved,” Parker told MSNBC. “We were quite a distance away from the actual building where it was happening, which could have opened us up to being potential targets ourselves.”


 If you want to use media to support your stance, MSNBC and CNN aren't the ones to use!  Both  are regarded as extreme left wing agenda promoting sources.



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flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 No.  It's not the Movies.  It's real life and death.



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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
apple wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Thats what I'm getting at. People seem to think John Wayne is going to ride in on his horse with his six shooter and take out all the bad guys then ride off into the sunset, hero that he is. 

The reality is that most gun owners are not trained to handle a situation like this and would most likely make it worse. IMO


 That is your OPINION???? Seriously?  You are just making it up.  In FACT, most gun owners, legal ones, are trained to handle many types of situation.


 You are telling me that the average Joe with a gun has combat training? Seriously, its so easy, why bother with grueling training for armed forces? I think you all overestimate the average gun owners ability to react in an active shooter situation.



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The school’s student conduct policy states that students cannot carry a weapon “without written authorization.”

“Possession or use, without written authorization, of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals, substances, or any other weapons or destructive devices that are designed to or readily capable of causing physical injury, on College premises, at College-sponsored or supervised functions or at functions sponsored or participated in by the College” is prohibited, the student conduct policy states.

There is also a general prohibition on bringing weapons on campus “except as expressly authorized by law or college regulations.”

“Possession, use, or threatened use of firearms (including but not limited to BB guns, air guns, water pistols, and paint guns) ammunition, explosives, dangerous chemicals, or any other objects as weapons on college property, except as expressly authorized by law or college regulations, is prohibited,” the school says on a web page labeled “safety & security info.”

-------------------

While the school isn't gun free, carrying is very restricted and creates a situation of being a soft target.



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Is there any evidence one needs "combat" training to defend one's own life? There are grandmas who have shot and killed intruders and saved their own lives.

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lilyofcourse wrote:

The following is a chart of mass shooting statistics, when corrected for population. It shows that the U.S. has comparable frequency to other nations when accounting for its large population size. It should also be noted that the U.S. by far has most armed citizens in the world.

Screenshot - 6_18_2015 , 9_43_12 PM

 Anyone care to address this? I thought America was the leader in mass shootings? 



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Frozen Sucks!

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apple wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
apple wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Thats what I'm getting at. People seem to think John Wayne is going to ride in on his horse with his six shooter and take out all the bad guys then ride off into the sunset, hero that he is. 

The reality is that most gun owners are not trained to handle a situation like this and would most likely make it worse. IMO


 That is your OPINION???? Seriously?  You are just making it up.  In FACT, most gun owners, legal ones, are trained to handle many types of situation.


 You are telling me that the average Joe with a gun has combat training? Seriously, its so easy, why bother with grueling training for armed forces? I think you all overestimate the average gun owners ability to react in an active shooter situation.


 Don't elevate the amount of training needed to that of the military.  That is just dumb.



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
apple wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Thats what I'm getting at. People seem to think John Wayne is going to ride in on his horse with his six shooter and take out all the bad guys then ride off into the sunset, hero that he is. 

The reality is that most gun owners are not trained to handle a situation like this and would most likely make it worse. IMO


 That is your OPINION???? Seriously?  You are just making it up.  In FACT, most gun owners, legal ones, are trained to handle many types of situation.


 So you should be able to PROVE your opinion.

flan



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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
apple wrote:

Speaking Friday on CNN Newsroom with Carol Costello, perennial gun rights advocate John Lott said, “My solution for these mass shootings is to look at the fact that every single time, these attacks occur where guns are banned. Every single time.”

That’s neither true in general nor true in this instance. The FBI tells us that active-shooter scenarios occur in all sorts of environments where guns are allowed—homes, businesses, outdoor spaces. (In fact, there was another mass shooting the same day as the Oregon massacre, leaving three dead and one severely wounded in a home in North Florida.) And Umpqua Community College itself wasn’t a gun-free zone. Oregon is one of seven states that allow guns on college campuses—the consequence of a 2011 court decision that overturned a longstanding ban. In 2012, the state board of education introduced several limitations on campus carry, but those were not widely enforced.

School policy at UCC does ban students from carrying guns into buildings except as “authorized by law,” but at least one student interpreted his concealed handgun license as legal authorization.
John Parker Jr., an Umpqua student and Air Force veteran, told multiple media outlets that he was armed and on campus at the time of the attack last week. Parker and other student veterans (perhaps also armed) thought about intervening. “Luckily we made the choice not to get involved,” Parker told MSNBC. “We were quite a distance away from the actual building where it was happening, which could have opened us up to being potential targets ourselves.”


 If you want to use media to support your stance, MSNBC and CNN aren't the ones to use!  Both  are regarded as extreme left wing agenda promoting sources.


So we are only permitted to use approved Conservative sources? Hell, might as well just channel the NRA.

flan



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Is there any evidence one needs "combat" training to defend one's own life? There are grandmas who have shot and killed intruders and saved their own lives.


 We were discussing an active shooter situation in a crowded public place.

flan



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Seems fair. If we use conservative sources, you poo poo that as "biased" and that doesnt' count blah, blah. Two can play.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Seems fair. If we use conservative sources, you poo poo that as "biased" and that doesnt' count blah, blah. Two can play.


 That was MY POINT.

KNOW YOUR SOURCE.

This is MY training, you know, the job that requires an MLS...

flan



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flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Is there any evidence one needs "combat" training to defend one's own life? There are grandmas who have shot and killed intruders and saved their own lives.


 We were discussing an active shooter situation in a crowded public place.

flan


 Are you trying to say there has never been anyone who took down an active shooter?

 

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/03/10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter/#10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter-2



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Is there any evidence one needs "combat" training to defend one's own life? There are grandmas who have shot and killed intruders and saved their own lives.


 You think there is no difference between killing an intruder and an armed active shooter in a crowd situation? wow....



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I think fighting for you life is fighting for your life. You are just as "dead" either way aren't you? And, yes, there have been good guys with guns who have taken out active shooters. Soooo, now figure out a new way to spin.....

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flan327 wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
apple wrote:

Speaking Friday on CNN Newsroom with Carol Costello, perennial gun rights advocate John Lott said, “My solution for these mass shootings is to look at the fact that every single time, these attacks occur where guns are banned. Every single time.”

That’s neither true in general nor true in this instance. The FBI tells us that active-shooter scenarios occur in all sorts of environments where guns are allowed—homes, businesses, outdoor spaces. (In fact, there was another mass shooting the same day as the Oregon massacre, leaving three dead and one severely wounded in a home in North Florida.) And Umpqua Community College itself wasn’t a gun-free zone. Oregon is one of seven states that allow guns on college campuses—the consequence of a 2011 court decision that overturned a longstanding ban. In 2012, the state board of education introduced several limitations on campus carry, but those were not widely enforced.

School policy at UCC does ban students from carrying guns into buildings except as “authorized by law,” but at least one student interpreted his concealed handgun license as legal authorization.
John Parker Jr., an Umpqua student and Air Force veteran, told multiple media outlets that he was armed and on campus at the time of the attack last week. Parker and other student veterans (perhaps also armed) thought about intervening. “Luckily we made the choice not to get involved,” Parker told MSNBC. “We were quite a distance away from the actual building where it was happening, which could have opened us up to being potential targets ourselves.”


 If you want to use media to support your stance, MSNBC and CNN aren't the ones to use!  Both  are regarded as extreme left wing agenda promoting sources.


So we are only permitted to use approved Conservative sources? Hell, might as well just channel the NRA.

flan


 How about a neutral media outlet that is not dead set against guns.  If the left wing media is where you base your opinions on, no wonder you have not a clue as to the facts of guns and gun ownership.  Try living it, living in an area where gun owner ship is common. Then you might be enlightened to the truth.



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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
apple wrote:

Speaking Friday on CNN Newsroom with Carol Costello, perennial gun rights advocate John Lott said, “My solution for these mass shootings is to look at the fact that every single time, these attacks occur where guns are banned. Every single time.”

That’s neither true in general nor true in this instance. The FBI tells us that active-shooter scenarios occur in all sorts of environments where guns are allowed—homes, businesses, outdoor spaces. (In fact, there was another mass shooting the same day as the Oregon massacre, leaving three dead and one severely wounded in a home in North Florida.) And Umpqua Community College itself wasn’t a gun-free zone. Oregon is one of seven states that allow guns on college campuses—the consequence of a 2011 court decision that overturned a longstanding ban. In 2012, the state board of education introduced several limitations on campus carry, but those were not widely enforced.

School policy at UCC does ban students from carrying guns into buildings except as “authorized by law,” but at least one student interpreted his concealed handgun license as legal authorization.
John Parker Jr., an Umpqua student and Air Force veteran, told multiple media outlets that he was armed and on campus at the time of the attack last week. Parker and other student veterans (perhaps also armed) thought about intervening. “Luckily we made the choice not to get involved,” Parker told MSNBC. “We were quite a distance away from the actual building where it was happening, which could have opened us up to being potential targets ourselves.”


 If you want to use media to support your stance, MSNBC and CNN aren't the ones to use!  Both  are regarded as extreme left wing agenda promoting sources.


So we are only permitted to use approved Conservative sources? Hell, might as well just channel the NRA.

flan


 How about a neutral media outlet that is not dead set against guns.  If the left wing media is where you base your opinions on, no wonder you have not a clue as to the facts of guns and gun ownership.  Try living it, living in an area where gun owner ship is common. Then you might be enlightened to the truth.


 I do, actually.

Indiana is also a conservative Republican state.

But thanks for your condescending remarks.

flan



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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
apple wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
apple wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Thats what I'm getting at. People seem to think John Wayne is going to ride in on his horse with his six shooter and take out all the bad guys then ride off into the sunset, hero that he is. 

The reality is that most gun owners are not trained to handle a situation like this and would most likely make it worse. IMO


 That is your OPINION???? Seriously?  You are just making it up.  In FACT, most gun owners, legal ones, are trained to handle many types of situation.


 You are telling me that the average Joe with a gun has combat training? Seriously, its so easy, why bother with grueling training for armed forces? I think you all overestimate the average gun owners ability to react in an active shooter situation.


 Don't elevate the amount of training needed to that of the military.  That is just dumb.


 What is "dumb" is thinking you have the training and the ability to "take out" an armed active shooter in a crowd situation. Seriously! Its just not that easy and there are reports, go ahead and google it, of "good guy with a gun" shooting the wrong person.



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FNW wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

As for targets, do you expect to get shot in a church? A club or school?

Much like the alligators at Disney, you just don't think about getting shot at the mall or movies.

But it happens.

The sign says no guns.

But then 50 people are shot.

Signs don't stop bad things from happening.


 The FBI tells us that active-shooter scenarios occur in all sorts of environments where guns are allowed—homes, businesses, outdoor spaces.

hmm


 Is this the same FBI that is unable/prevented from watching Muslims?


 Right?  More Obama administration scum...



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apple wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
apple wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
apple wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Thats what I'm getting at. People seem to think John Wayne is going to ride in on his horse with his six shooter and take out all the bad guys then ride off into the sunset, hero that he is. 

The reality is that most gun owners are not trained to handle a situation like this and would most likely make it worse. IMO


 That is your OPINION???? Seriously?  You are just making it up.  In FACT, most gun owners, legal ones, are trained to handle many types of situation.


 You are telling me that the average Joe with a gun has combat training? Seriously, its so easy, why bother with grueling training for armed forces? I think you all overestimate the average gun owners ability to react in an active shooter situation.


 Don't elevate the amount of training needed to that of the military.  That is just dumb.


 What is "dumb" is thinking you have the training and the ability to "take out" an armed active shooter in a crowd situation. Seriously! Its just not that easy and there are reports, go ahead and google it, of "good guy with a gun" shooting the wrong person.


 At least I'm not a sitting duck. I have a better chance of taking out a gunman than you do...and you have a better chance of being dead.



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Still waiting for an answer...

flan

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What is your question? Combat training? No, i don't have combat training. Most people don't. However, there are many instances where concealed carry, non combat people have taken out or neutralized a killer. Soooo, what is your question now?

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I can shoot a gun and hit the center mass of the target.


You want gun laws? How about enforcing the ones we already have, first?

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

What is your question? Combat training? No, i don't have combat training. Most people don't. However, there are many instances where concealed carry, non combat people have taken out or neutralized a killer. Soooo, what is your question now?


 It's for ohfour, Hon.

flan



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Lawyerlady wrote:

I can shoot a gun and hit the center mass of the target.


You want gun laws? How about enforcing the ones we already have, first?


 I can shoot, I've done my share of trap shooting and hunting. I am however not so MACHO as to say I would be the hero in an active shooter situation with a lot of people involved.  

I think perhaps many people think its easy but it takes training and in all honesty, most people couldn't do it. Hitting a paper target or a beer can does not mean you have what it takes to act safely and accurately in an active mass shooting event.

 



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It's not about being macho. Not sure where you get that. Or why you think macho is "bad"? However, what would i personally do? I don't know. I don't know what i would do. I do think i would fight to save my family, that is for sure. Or maybe i would freeze in terror. I don't know. But, at least some of us have a CHANCE which is more than the people in the nightclub did.

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apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

I can shoot a gun and hit the center mass of the target.


You want gun laws? How about enforcing the ones we already have, first?


 I can shoot, I've done my share of trap shooting and hunting. I am however not so MACHO as to say I would be the hero in an active shooter situation with a lot of people involved.  

I think perhaps many people think its easy but it takes training and in all honesty, most people couldn't do it. Hitting a paper target or a beer can does not mean you have what it takes to act safely and accurately in an active mass shooting event.

 


 

So you would just beg for your life....great strategy.  At least I have a chance...



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I keep thinking about that plane that went down in the field instead of the White House because the passengers overtook the terrorists who had hijacked the plane.

I doubt any of them had combat training.

But they saved lives cause they did something even though they knew they would die anyway.

Yep.

Guess you either wait to die or you do something that may save lives.

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apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

I can shoot a gun and hit the center mass of the target.


You want gun laws? How about enforcing the ones we already have, first?


 I can shoot, I've done my share of trap shooting and hunting. I am however not so MACHO as to say I would be the hero in an active shooter situation with a lot of people involved.  

I think perhaps many people think its easy but it takes training and in all honesty, most people couldn't do it. Hitting a paper target or a beer can does not mean you have what it takes to act safely and accurately in an active mass shooting event.

 


 Until you (general you) have actually been in an active shooter situation, I will give your opinion all the consideration it deserves.

flan



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flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

I can shoot a gun and hit the center mass of the target.


You want gun laws? How about enforcing the ones we already have, first?


 I can shoot, I've done my share of trap shooting and hunting. I am however not so MACHO as to say I would be the hero in an active shooter situation with a lot of people involved.  

I think perhaps many people think its easy but it takes training and in all honesty, most people couldn't do it. Hitting a paper target or a beer can does not mean you have what it takes to act safely and accurately in an active mass shooting event.

 


 Until you (general you) have actually been in an active shooter situation, I will give your opinion all the consideration it deserves.

flan


 My chance of survival is infinitely beyond yours. You have a bullet hole in your garage door. That's unheard of here. 

 



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Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

I can shoot a gun and hit the center mass of the target.


You want gun laws? How about enforcing the ones we already have, first?


 I can shoot, I've done my share of trap shooting and hunting. I am however not so MACHO as to say I would be the hero in an active shooter situation with a lot of people involved.  

I think perhaps many people think its easy but it takes training and in all honesty, most people couldn't do it. Hitting a paper target or a beer can does not mean you have what it takes to act safely and accurately in an active mass shooting event.

 


 Until you (general you) have actually been in an active shooter situation, I will give your opinion all the consideration it deserves.

flan


 My chance of survival is infinitely beyond yours. You have a bullet hole in your garage door. That's unheard of here. 

 


 Right. Because you personally know every single inch of every single house "here."

flan



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Flan.

You are against having a gun.

You want stricter gun laws.

You criticize those of us who have guns.

But you are the only one with actual bullet holes in your house.

Now, to me, it seems that alone shows that it isn't the gun that is the problem.

It's the person holding it that is the problem.

I live 1 mile from the county firing and training range.

I hear gun fire all day, every day.

And I know that of the 16 houses in my little neighborhood, all of them have at least 1 gun.

I have a city police officer that lives in my neighborhood.

And a fireman.

Yes. There have been 2 break ins in my neighborhood.

Both during the day when no one was home.

That's it in the 20+ years I've been living here.

Both were stopped by a neighbor with a gun and they were held until the police got there.

You don't like guns.

Great.

Don't have a gun.

But stop supporting and promoting movements to restrict and or remove others 2nd amendment right.

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apple wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:

Right, so imagine you're in a nightclub and you hear gun shots.
200 "good guys" whip out their guns and start shooting each other, because they don't know who the bad guy is.
How many people get killed in the crossfire? How do the cops differentiate and identify who the good guy with a gun is and who is the bad guy with a gun?

Its a bit problematic this "good guy with a gun" scenario you like to dream up.


 Ask ANY LEO about their accuracy rate on a firing range as compared to their accuracy rate in an active shooter situation.

This is NOT the movies...

flan


 Again, my uncle, aunt 2 cousins and a whole lot of friends who are actually police officers have told me the same thing.

Aim center mass. Largest target, it'll stop most people.


 Right so why do the police and military bother to train at all? Its so easy to shoot someone....confuse Especially in panic mode.


 Actually, that's the same training most LEOs get too. They shoot for center mass. 3 shots, closely grouped in the chest. Usually only snipers/sharpshooters are trained for head shots.

and only in those movies are the criminals getting the guns shot out of their hand 



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