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I bought an AR-15 assault rifle in 7 minutes
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I bought an AR-15 assault rifle in 7 minutes

June 15, 2016 By Helen Ubinas, Philadelphia Daily News

Three variations of the AR-15 assault rifle are Three variations of the AR-15 assault rifle are displayed at the California Department of Justice in Sacramento, Calif., on Aug. 15, 2012. (Credit: AP)

Seven minutes. That’s how long it took me to buy an AR-15, the semiautomatic rifle used in the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history.

Seven minutes. From the moment I handed the salesperson my driver’s license to the moment I passed my background check.

It likely will take more time than that during the forthcoming round of vigils to respectfully read the names of the more than 100 people who were killed or injured.

 

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It’s obscene.

Surprising to some, perhaps, though it shouldn’t be, not at this point in our bloody, hate-filled history.

If it weren’t so easy to get a gun in this country, the 29-year-old gunman who went on a shooting rampage in a popular gay nightclub in Orlando on Sunday wouldn’t have been able to buy the weapon he used to kill 49 people and injure 53.

If it weren’t so easy to get a gun in this country, another gunman who came before him wouldn’t have been able to use the same kind of firearm to kill elementary-school children in Newtown, Conn.

If it weren’t so appallingly easy to get a gun in this country, it wouldn’t be easy for the next gunman to deliver the kind of carnage that’s as much a part of this country as the American flag.

And there will undoubtedly be a next one.

This has been said, but bears repeating and repeating and repeating some more. If nothing changed after children were slaughtered in their school, do any of us really believe anything will change after the deaths of people so many fear and loathe simply for trying to live their truths?

The gunman was apparently enraged over seeing a same-sex couple kiss. Think about that. Love enraged him. Love made him kill.

But I try not to think about any of that as I drive over to the gun shop in Philadelphia. I need to come up with some plausible story, I think. What if I’m asked why, a day after this massacre, I want to buy the very type of gun used to slaughter people at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando.

I consider my options:

I’m a woman who wants a rifle for safety reasons.

I’m a gun enthusiast with a soft spot for military-style rifles.

I’m a card-carrying member of the NRA who is afraid the government will be coming for my guns.

Turns out I don’t need a story. The AR-15 is on display in the window of the gun shop. It is being promoted as the gun of the week.

What will it take to buy one, I ask the sales guy.

Do I have identification? Yes.

Am I a U.S. citizen? Yes.

“Bingo,” the friendly gun shop sales guy said. “All we have to do is fill paperwork out.” I’ve filled out more paperwork at the doctor’s office for a routine checkup than I did Monday afternoon.

I felt a little squeamish about not telling him who I was and what I was trying to do, but this wasn’t about them; they weren’t doing anything illegal. The truth is that I could have bought the gun as easily in any gun shop in Pennsylvania. I just didn’t realize how easily.

Go to a licensed gun store. Fill out about a page and a half of forms. Wait (if that’s really the right word for it) for an instant background check, and then pay the man. I told the guy I was on a budget, so I got an AR-15 for $759.99. God bless America.

No need for a concealed carry permit. No mandatory training, though the guys did give me a coupon for a free day pass for a local gun range. No need for even a moment to at least consider how gross all of this felt as relatives of the dead were still being notified.

To be fair, there was an extra 10 or 15 minutes or so of chitchat inside the gun store before I walked out with a cardboard box with the words Smith & Wesson emblazoned on it, and an atta-girl for thinking ahead and buying the most popular rifle in the country before there’s a run on the gun from nervous gun owners who fear a ban on them.

“Yeah, because it was about the gun, not Islamic terrorism, right?” a man buying a gun offered, unsolicited.

Here we go, I thought.

The fact is, what shattered so many lives in the early hours Sunday was about many things.

Homophobia, first and foremost.

Radicalism - the American gunman claimed allegiance to the Islamic State and praised the Boston Marathon bombers. Even if that’s not true, the radicals won’t have a problem with that.

Mental illness.

And yes, guns. Insane, nonsensical access to guns. So pick whatever reason or narrative matches your politics or agenda. Have at it, because the truth is that while they all play a part, what’s really destroying this country is fear and hate. A festering fear and hate that we better think about when it’s time to vote for our next president, because the fear and hate is not all coming from the outside. It’s not all from some unnamed foreign bogeyman. Increasingly it’s from within, from down the street, the next state over, the next potential leader of this country.

As I walked to my car with my brand-new gun, I wasn’t sure what to do with it. I didn’t want it, but I also didn’t want it in anyone else’s hands either.

So I drove to the Philadelphia Police Department’s Sixth District, where I seemed to stump more than a few officers when I explained who I was and what I wanted to do. Have you ever tried to turn in a gun in this city? Spoiler alert: It takes longer than it does to buy a gun.

As an officer prepared the paperwork, I noticed a sign that hung on one of the walls.

United We Stand, it read.

My God, I thought, what a lie.

We are more divided every single day, and yet our answer to that is to meet fear and hate with more fear and hate and then expect a different outcome. To be shocked at the world we live in, left to do little else but hold vigils.

While we’re mourning the dead, let us mourn the national loss of humanity that is to blame for this world we have created.

And let us take more than seven minutes to do it.

Helen Ubinas is a columnist for the Philadelphia Daily News



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An AR-15 is not an assault rifle it just looks like one. It's a semi automatic. Which means it only fires once for each time the trigger is pulled. Much like a regular hunting rifle (or shot gun, or piston, or revolver). In fact, common hunting rifles are more powerful.


It has been estimated that at least 3.3 million AR-15 rifles were sold in the United States between 1986 and 2009. In its ubiquity, the AR-15 is a modern musket—the default rifle with which law-abiding Americans exercise their right to keep and bear arms.
The AR-15 is particularly favored for its modularity, accuracy, light weight, and low recoil—attributes that make it ideal not only for shooting sports but also armed self-defense.

As such, it is the epitome of what America's founders sought to protect when they wrote the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

According to Senator Feinstein, so-called assault weapons have been used in 385 murders since the AWB expired in 2004, or about 48 murders per year. But there were 8,583 total murders with guns in the United States in 2011, meaning so-called assault weapons were used 0.6% of the time.

Further illustrating the small role so-called assault weapons play in crime, FBI data shows that 323 murders were committed with rifles of any kind in 2011. In comparison, 496 murders were committed with hammers and clubs, and 1,694 murders were perpetrated with knives.

Insofar as the AR-15 is used in crimes, the rifle's popularity must be considered.

Besides the AR-15, James Holmes used a best-selling and arguably more lethal shotgun at the Aurora movie theater shooting.

At the Virginia Tech and Tucson shootings, Seung-Hui Cho and Jared Loughner used a best-selling handgun.

All else being equal, a gun that is common is more likely to be used for legal or illegal purposes than a gun that is rare. Outlawing guns that are popular today will only make different guns popular tomorrow.

Banning firearms because of their cosmetic features is misguided.

 

This is quoted from your OP:

If it weren’t so easy to get a gun in this country, another gunman who came before him wouldn’t have been able to use the same kind of firearm to kill elementary-school children in Newtown, Conn.

The Newtown shooter stole his guns, so how exactly does the ease of purchase matter there?

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/06/627943-heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-assault-rifles-and-the-ar-15/

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

 



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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I might buy one. Good to know.

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NAOW


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For the record, we went and bought DH a new handgun a few months ago and it took much longer than 7 minutes.

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Lawyerlady


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Yep, sounds like a good gun to own. It would likely take more than 7 minutes, though.

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flan327


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Just curious:

How long SHOULD it take to buy a gun?

flan

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This is a quote from the family of the man who invented the AR-15:

"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."

And:

Their comments add unprecedented context to their father's creation, shedding new light on his intentions and adding firepower to the effort to ban weapons like the AR-15. The comments could also bolster a groundbreaking new lawsuit, which argues that the weapon is a tool of war — never intended for civilians.

Eugene Stoner would have agreed, his family said.

The ex-Marine and "avid sportsman, hunter and skeet shooter" never used his invention for sport. He also never kept it around the house for personal defense. In fact, he never even owned one.

flan



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flan327 wrote:

Just curious:

How long SHOULD it take to buy a gun?

flan

 How long do you think it should take?



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flan327 wrote:

This is a quote from the family of the man who invented the AR-15:

"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."

And:

Their comments add unprecedented context to their father's creation, shedding new light on his intentions and adding firepower to the effort to ban weapons like the AR-15. The comments could also bolster a groundbreaking new lawsuit, which argues that the weapon is a tool of war — never intended for civilians.

Eugene Stoner would have agreed, his family said.

The ex-Marine and "avid sportsman, hunter and skeet shooter" never used his invention for sport. He also never kept it around the house for personal defense. In fact, he never even owned one.

flan

 And Sarah Winchester built like a crazy person because she was afraid of the ghosts of those killed with the Winchester rifle. 

But you will never see any gun fire without a person pulling the trigger.

 

How long should it take to buy a gun? About 7 minutes seems right.

First it was get rid of hand guns, not it's assault rifles.

I got a flare gun in the closet. 

I've honestly seen more damage done with those than guns.

 



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flan327


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It takes longer to ADOPT A PET from most pounds than it does to buy a gun.

Is that NOT messed up?

flan

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lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:

This is a quote from the family of the man who invented the AR-15:

"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."

And:

Their comments add unprecedented context to their father's creation, shedding new light on his intentions and adding firepower to the effort to ban weapons like the AR-15. The comments could also bolster a groundbreaking new lawsuit, which argues that the weapon is a tool of war — never intended for civilians.

Eugene Stoner would have agreed, his family said.

The ex-Marine and "avid sportsman, hunter and skeet shooter" never used his invention for sport. He also never kept it around the house for personal defense. In fact, he never even owned one.

flan

 And Sarah Winchester built like a crazy person because she was afraid of the ghosts of those killed with the Winchester rifle. 

But you will never see any gun fire without a person pulling the trigger.

 

How long should it take to buy a gun? About 7 minutes seems right.

First it was get rid of hand guns, not it's assault rifles.

I got a flare gun in the closet. 

I've honestly seen more damage done with those than guns.

 

 Thank you for enlightening us.

I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE YOUR PRECIOUS HAND GUNS AWAY.

Try again.

flan



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flan327 wrote:

It takes longer to ADOPT A PET from most pounds than it does to buy a gun.

Is that NOT messed up?

flan

 NO.  Pets are living things that need care.  Guns can sit in a drawer and never be touched, and never NEED attention. 



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flan327 wrote:

It takes longer to ADOPT A PET from most pounds than it does to buy a gun.

Is that NOT messed up?

flan

 That's stupid, too.



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Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:

It takes longer to ADOPT A PET from most pounds than it does to buy a gun.

Is that NOT messed up?

flan

 NO.  Pets are living things that need care.  Guns can sit in a drawer and never be touched, and never NEED attention. 

 YES.

It's messed up.

You need to pass a TEST to drive a car.

flan



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Keep pretending you don't want ALL guns taken away flan. Your words and attitude say exactly that.



-- Edited by Tinydancer on Thursday 16th of June 2016 04:16:56 PM

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lilyofcourse


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Ok.

So you want to make testing part of getting a gun?

What would be on the test?

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flan327


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Ummmm...basic safety procedures, for one thing...

flan

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And I think people should have to prove they know the constitution, process of a bill becoming a law and order of secession before the vote.

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flan327


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lilyofcourse wrote:

And I think people should have to prove they know the constitution, process of a bill becoming a law and order of secession before the vote.

 Bully for you!

flan



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1) The gun the Orlando shooter used was a Sig Sauer MCX, not an AR-15. They are a brand new platform developed with the last year and half. They are definitely not full-auto rifles (pre-86 ban and all).
2) There is a near identical rifle called the Sig MPX, same rifle, but it shoots a 9mm pistol cartridge and uses pistol magazines. Same capacity for destruction.
3) There is a version of an MPX, without a stock, same gun mechanically, that is classified as a pistol under law. The only difference is that it doesn't have a stock. Should that be legal? If not, why? It shoots a pistol round and uses pistol magazines, it is no different then any other semi-automatic pistol. It's rate of fire and capacity can be matched by any pistol. Where is the line? When is it too dangerous?
4) What about other firearms that are mechanically different, but are capable of the same rate of fire? What about semi-auto Shotguns, and lever action rifles? They can shoot fast and they carry a large bullet. When is it too dangerous? These are questions that you, supporting a ban, will have to answer.


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lilyofcourse


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The problem is blaming things instead of people.

The old saying "where there's a will, there's a way" applies like no other when it comes to killers.

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NO. Pets are living things that need care. Guns can sit in a drawer and never be touched, and never NEED attention.
- Lawyerlady

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I disagree with "never be touched and never need attention", especially if just sitting "in a drawer".

A gun that's rarely or never used should be cleaned and oiled every few years, minimum (once a year is better though). Just to make sure it's ready to use if you ever need it.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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So, if a woman is leaving her abusive husband who threatens to kill her, how much time should she have to wait to buy a gun?

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flan327


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Wow! THAT is supposed to make me change my mind?

I saw on the morning news that crazy Orlando shooter had attempted to buy an obscene amount of ammo, but the gun shop owner refused to sell to him.

Can you imagine the horror of hearing what had happened? Knowing that IF you had gotten his name and reported him...

flan

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Are u gonna answer my question?

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flan327


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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Are u gonna answer my question?

 I already did.

flan



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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No you just deflected.

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flan327


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Nope, I said that I wasn't changing my mind. That is called an answer.

flan

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So u are ok with a battered woman not having the means to defend herself and children?

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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But of course you dont want profiling. You dont want anything odd singled out and looked at. Make up your damn mind.

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flan327 wrote:

Wow! THAT is supposed to make me change my mind?

I saw on the morning news that crazy Orlando shooter had attempted to buy an obscene amount of ammo, but the gun shop owner refused to sell to him.

Can you imagine the horror of hearing what had happened? Knowing that IF you had gotten his name and reported him...

flan

 Did you also read that the same gun shop owner called the FBI and they said they couldn't do anything he didn't have the guys' name?  While the shooter was on the watchlist?

 

How's this, FBI - get a little photo book of the people on your watchlist, take it to the store owner and ask - is it any of these people?  

 

This is my biggest problem, people fighting for more laws, when they don't even properly enforce the ones we already have, or investigate properly when given tips. 



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And they rail against profiling. So there ya go.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Well a few dead women and children is juat the price we have to pay to have strict gun laws.

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lilyofcourse


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What is "an obscene amount"?

A clip? A box? 10 boxes? 1000 boxes?


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flan327


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Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:

Wow! THAT is supposed to make me change my mind?

I saw on the morning news that crazy Orlando shooter had attempted to buy an obscene amount of ammo, but the gun shop owner refused to sell to him.

Can you imagine the horror of hearing what had happened? Knowing that IF you had gotten his name and reported him...

flan

 Did you also read that the same gun shop owner called the FBI and they said they couldn't do anything he didn't have the guys' name?  While the shooter was on the watchlist?

 

How's this, FBI - get a little photo book of the people on your watchlist, take it to the store owner and ask - is it any of these people?  

 

This is my biggest problem, people fighting for more laws, when they don't even properly enforce the ones we already have, or investigate properly when given tips. 

 Yup, I heard that.

Do you know that it IS possible to pass new laws while also enforcing existing ones?

flan



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flan327


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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

So u are ok with a battered woman not having the means to defend herself and children?

 Don't play stupid.

flan



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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If u dont support her right to obtain a weapon to defend herself then that is exactly what u support

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flan327


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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

If u dont support her right to obtain a weapon to defend herself then that is exactly what u support

 I support REASONABLE restrictions.

Bartenders can refuse to serve more drinks to a drunk customer. If a teen fails a driving test, he doesn't get a license.

flan



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apple


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Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:

It takes longer to ADOPT A PET from most pounds than it does to buy a gun.

Is that NOT messed up?

flan

 NO.  Pets are living things that need care.  Guns can sit in a drawer and never be touched, and never NEED attention. 

 Ya well that is where you lost me. I think purchasing a gun should be under scrutiny. Guns are dangerous. Just look at how many "accidental" deaths happen in the USA each and every year. Obviously people don't understand just how easy it is to "accidentally" shoot someone.

 



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apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:

It takes longer to ADOPT A PET from most pounds than it does to buy a gun.

Is that NOT messed up?

flan

 NO.  Pets are living things that need care.  Guns can sit in a drawer and never be touched, and never NEED attention. 

 Ya well that is where you lost me. I think purchasing a gun should be under scrutiny. Guns are dangerous. Just look at how many "accidental" deaths happen in the USA each and every year. Obviously people don't understand just how easy it is to "accidentally" shoot someone.

 

 Wait! I got this!

....Guns don't kill people: people kill people...

no

flan



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apple


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flan327 wrote:

Ummmm...basic safety procedures, for one thing...

flan

 I had to undergo testing to get my hunting license and to get my Firearms acquisition license...I am fine with that. They do a background check as well. 

 

Who needs an AR-15 Assault rifle? really....it has only one purpose and that is to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible.  Nutty....



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apple


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flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:

It takes longer to ADOPT A PET from most pounds than it does to buy a gun.

Is that NOT messed up?

flan

 NO.  Pets are living things that need care.  Guns can sit in a drawer and never be touched, and never NEED attention. 

 Ya well that is where you lost me. I think purchasing a gun should be under scrutiny. Guns are dangerous. Just look at how many "accidental" deaths happen in the USA each and every year. Obviously people don't understand just how easy it is to "accidentally" shoot someone.

 

 Wait! I got this!

....Guns don't kill people: people kill people...

no

flan

 Lawn mowers don't cut grass, people do.  



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flan327


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apple wrote:
flan327 wrote:

Ummmm...basic safety procedures, for one thing...

flan

 I had to undergo testing to get my hunting license and to get my Firearms acquisition license...I am fine with that. They do a background check as well. 

 

Who needs an AR-15 Assault rifle? really....it has only one purpose and that is to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible.  Nutty....

 YOU...Canadian YOU!!!

evileye

flan



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Cheerios4606


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"Who needs an AR-15 Assault rifle? really....it has only one purpose and that is to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible. Nutty...."

Actually, an AR-15 is one of the weakest rifles you can buy AND it only shoots one bullet per trigger pull.



-- Edited by Cheerios4606 on Monday 20th of June 2016 12:57:15 PM

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apple


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Six states, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, California, Maryland, and Connecticut, heavily regulate possession of AR-15 type rifles either by the restriction of certain features or outright bans of certain manufacturers' models. California residents may own certain AR-15 type rifles, but they are required to have a fixed magazine not exceeding 10 rounds. Massachusetts and New Jersey have essentially continued following the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban criteria on numerous semiautomatic rifles. New York, Maryland, and Connecticut enacted a ban on sales of AR-15 (and other types of firearms) in response to the December 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting Massacre. These various state laws have been heavily criticized by many pro-gun organizations.

Under U.S. firearms laws, the lower receiver of the AR-15 is considered a firearm and is subject to purchasing restrictions. The AR-15 upper receiver assembly is considered a part, and may be purchased and mail-ordered in most locations. This is a desirable feature for enthusiasts, who can purchase a number of upper receivers (often in different calibers and barrel lengths) and interchange them with the same lower receiver.

Phoenix, Arizona based Tactical Fire Control Inc., can turn your basic AR into a (nearly) full-auto rifle with no need for the onerous NFA licensing process.

According to TFC, the so-called "3MR" trigger is set up to switch between safe, semi-auto and a third fire control mode which uses a "positive reset" to cut down on shot-times.

The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the fastest reset possible.



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Cheerios4606


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But it is still one trigger pull, one bullet. Automatic weapons are already banned.

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lilyofcourse


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Stop with the facts.

Facts burn libs like acid.

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flan327


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lilyofcourse wrote:

Stop with the facts.

Facts burn libs like acid.

 Actually your attempts at being witty burn...

flan



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lilyofcourse


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flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

Stop with the facts.

Facts burn libs like acid.

 Actually your attempts at being witty burn...

flan

 You know you can ignore me, right? 

 



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burns07


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1) The gun the Orlando shooter used was a Sig Sauer MCX, not an AR-15. They are a brand new platform developed with the last year and half. They are definitely not full-auto rifles (pre-86 ban and all).
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

thank you--the article is full of nonsense from the weapon used to the capability of an AR-15 or its variants

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Phoenix, Arizona based Tactical Fire Control Inc., can turn your basic AR into a (nearly) full-auto rifle with no need for the onerous NFA licensing process.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

apple do you know anything at all about class II weapons ? have you ever held one? fired one? cleaned one? used one? all your copy and paste nonsense makes you look like an adolescent and would personally not want to be around you at all when you're handling weapons--even your basic knowledge of their function/use is suspect





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