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Post Info TOPIC: Landlords in Baltimore City/County might not be able to deny Section 8 vouchers


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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Landlords in Baltimore City/County might not be able to deny Section 8 vouchers
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Earlier this week, the Baltimore County Council considered a bill that would have barred landlords from turning away prospective renters based on how they come by their rent money.

“Source of income” laws are meant to protect low-income tenants for whom fair housing’s more well-established edicts — landlords can’t discriminate by race, religion, disability or family status — aren’t enough. They additionally ban landlords from discriminating against renters who get help covering their rent from the government. Such laws mean landlords can’t legally broadcast “No Section 8” in their Craigslist ads. They can’t make a policy of rejecting voucher holders outright.

Washington, D.C., Chicago, Philadelphia, Seattle and San Francisco have such laws (although landlords still flout them). So do Baltimore City and Howard, Montgomery and Frederick counties in Maryland. But there's no blanket federal law, and advocates in Maryland have failed to get a state one. So it remains perfectly legal in much of the country for landlords who can't discriminate against blacks or single mothers to discriminate against low-income families with vouchers. Last year, the Texas state legislature even passed a law banning local communities from enacting their own laws making the practice illegal.

Because this kind of discrimination is broadly accepted, the federal government’s largest housing program for the poor doesn’t work like it should. Families with vouchers designed for the private market find much of the private market closed to them. A policy that was supposed to help households leave the concentrated poverty of public housing projects now often steers them instead into concentrated poverty in private apartments and neighborhoods where everyone knows “Section 8 is okay.

Baltimore County, comprising the inner-ring, majority-white suburbs around predominantly-black Baltimore City, is precisely the kind of place where such a law is needed. The county has never had any public housing. It has a long racially charged history of obstructing fair housing (in 1970, HUD famously withheld sewer funding from Baltimore County over its support for residential segregation). And the roughly 6,000 voucher holder households there today are disproportionately clustered in the poorer neighborhoods, near the lowest-performing schools.

The county was in fact required to consider a “source of income” law as part a settlement with HUD reached just this year over its long-running discriminatory housing.

But on Monday, the council rejected the bill, 6 to 1. The law’s only supporter was the council’s lone black council member. Said that councilman, Julian Jones, according to the Baltimore Sun: “This bill has been and continues to be about a very simple point: prejudice and discrimination.”

That the bill failed in this suburban county with its own troubled housing history reveals how deeply entrenched opposition to desegregation remains. As has been the case in fights over these laws across the country, the debate in Baltimore County focused more on the rights of neighborhoods to keep the poor at bay than the rights of poor families to escape poverty.

“We should be working to eliminate poverty, not spread it around,” council member David Marks tweeted Monday night after the vote. “That means focusing on things like job growth ...”

The problem, though, is that concentrating poverty makes it nearly impossible to eliminate. And the policy of doing so is inseparable from race. Throughout the United States, poor blacks live with vastly higher neighborhood poverty levels than do poor whites, because of the long history of private and government discrimination against them.

That racial history is hard to separate from comments by opponents in Baltimore County who warned of a “massive flood” of Section 8 voucher holders if the law passed. “In Baltimore County’s history, that means a massive flood of poor black people,” says Barbara Samuels, an attorney with the ACLU in Maryland. “It was the same old Baltimore County. The same old story.”

David Simon, the creator of “The Wire,” compared Baltimore County this week to Yonkers, N.Y., the scene of a vicious 1980s desegregation battle chronicled in Simon’s HBO miniseries “Show Me a Hero.”

A group called the Baltimore County Campaign for Liberty waged an online campaign against the bill. It suggested inaccurately that the federal government would soon make available enough money to give a voucher to all 35,000 families currently on the county’s waiting list. “You work hard to provide a good life in a good neighborhood for yourself and your family,” another notice by the group read, arguing that the anti-discrimination law would lead to decline of those neighborhoods.

“It was very old-fashioned racist stuff,” says Matt Hill, an attorney for the Public Justice Center, who represented the coalition of groups that brought the HUD complaint against the county. “It was disgusting. And I’m just heartbroken, because I really didn’t realize how powerful that kind of thinly veiled racism and classicism was in the county. I thought, ‘it’s 2016. It’s not 1960.’ ”

“Source of income” laws sound like a relatively narrow idea. But without them, many other proposals for how to leverage housing to alleviate poverty don’t work as well. We can counsel families on how to find the kinds of neighborhoods where their children would thrive, but that plan frays if there are few properties there that will accept them. We can offer families subsidies that would cover more expensive housing near good schools, but that doesn't matter if landlords there won't take the money.

Discrimination takes over time many shifting forms, from blunt objections to black neighbors to coded arguments about the rights of landlords to avoid government paperwork. But in many ways, we are still talking about the same thing.



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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Alright - we considered turning our first rental property Section 8. BUT, you have to do all sorts of paperwork, have your house inspected, etc. and evicting the people for nonpayment of their portion of the rent or breaching the lease rules (like moving in boyfriends, damaging the house) is very, very difficult.

I can't see how they can force landlords to have to submit to government interference with their property rights and the freedom to NOT have to deal with government red tape.

And the plain truth is that the people are not paying much, if anything for the property, they have no security deposit usually, and they know the landlord won't be able to collect anything even if they damage the house.

And before people say anything about the RULES of being a Section 8 renter - the government does not enforce them.



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I don't know the rules on Section 8 housing but it sounds like it would work ok for a slum lord but not so well for a landlord who wants to keep his rentals nice.

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The Fiance deals with Section 8. He is always getting called upon for reviews. His places are 100% neat. They wrote him up for a cracked outlet cover! I still laugh. The best part? He said he had one in his toolbox. The guy said no. Took a picture and said he'd be back to review.

Then one tenant filled every cabinet with used soda bottles. Then the mice came. The rodent guy about lost it when he started opening the cabinets. Hit in the head with used soda bottles. That guy wrote a letter to Section 8 stating the tenant caused the problem. Yeah, she got the boot.

They live like slobs, steal everything they can and complain. That is my take on watching him deal with it.

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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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Landlords should have the right to run credit reports, references, demand security deposits, etc. in order to choose tenants that will take care of their property.

I don't want someone in my house who isn't going to care or take care of it. And that has NOTHING to do with race. My wonderful tenant that I have had in the house for 6 years is black. Her race was not a factor in my decision to rent to her in any manner. Her ability to pay both the rent and a security deposit and her history are what made the decision for me. All her references said she paid to the end.



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He does run credit, shh. Even a section 8 inspector says they are perfect buildings. He wants to know what he is dealing with.

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Scary stuff. Next it won't be simply you can't advertise that you don't take it.

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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

Scary stuff. Next it won't be simply you can't advertise that you don't take it.


 The words "security deposit required" should actually take care of it. 

 

I get the issues with the city wanting housing for the poor.  But the system is broken - and that's not the landlords' fault.  



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You couldn't pay me to be a landlord. Saw enough of it with a old boyfriend who had several rentals in Cali. No thanks.

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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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FNW wrote:

You couldn't pay me to be a landlord. Saw enough of it with a old boyfriend who had several rentals in Cali. No thanks.


 I wouldn't be a landlord in California, either.  They have some crazy rules there!



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Last night he got a call right before dinner. He missed dinner. He comes back screaming about the idiot. There was no problem. It is a low water shower attachment. Push the button!

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Lawyerlady wrote:

Alright - we considered turning our first rental property Section 8. BUT, you have to do all sorts of paperwork, have your house inspected, etc. and evicting the people for nonpayment of their portion of the rent or breaching the lease rules (like moving in boyfriends, damaging the house) is very, very difficult.

I can't see how they can force landlords to have to submit to government interference with their property rights and the freedom to NOT have to deal with government red tape.

And the plain truth is that the people are not paying much, if anything for the property, they have no security deposit usually, and they know the landlord won't be able to collect anything even if they damage the house.

And before people say anything about the RULES of being a Section 8 renter - the government does not enforce them.


Yeah I considered it too but the paperwork & inspections was enough to make me run screaming.  Being a landlord is trouble enough.  Using a management company was the best decision I made in that regard. 



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We have a nice apartment complex near the hospital. They recently started accepting section 8. Now they have had many break ins.

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For me, as with a lot of stuff of this nature, I hate the stigma attached to it. The collective we never hear of section 8 renters who DON'T trash the place. I know there's good reason for the stigma but it bugs me because it ignores the good ones who just need a hand up in that season of their life.

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I agree chef! If the government would uphold their own rules a lot more landlords would go the section 8 root but they let the bad apples ruin it for the good apples...

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chef wrote:

For me, as with a lot of stuff of this nature, I hate the stigma attached to it. The collective we never hear of section 8 renters who DON'T trash the place. I know there's good reason for the stigma but it bugs me because it ignores the good ones who just need a hand up in that season of their life.


 I agree Chef, unfortunately the good ones are lower in numbers than the bad ones.



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Government forcing citizens to comply through law and threat of law suit or tax penalty or some other retribution?

Imagine that!

I completely understand not wanting most section 8 tenants.

But there are exceptions.

But let's face it, the known section 8 housing areas are awful and it's the tenants who make it that way.



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Jinx...lol

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Tinydancer wrote:

Jinx...lol


 You owe me a coke!



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I'll take a beer!

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At the next geek meet I'll but you a coke or a drink of another kind if you'd like!

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One of my clients had a few section 8 rentals. Although you're not allowed to select based on race, etc. he said he always tried to get Hispanic families. He said they always took very good care of the places.

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I will never take Section 8. I would rather have a vacancy. If push were to come to shove, I would simply decline to make any of the repairs on the initial inspection. Because there are ALWAYS repairs to be made. They inspect every year, also, and withhold their portion of the rent until they deign to have time to come back and re-inspect, which, here, can take a couple of MONTHS. And they do not allow you to charge the tenants for damages, even if the tenant caused them. No. Freaking. Way. I will NEVER take Section 8. I will sell every house I own first and find something else to invest in.

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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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That's the main issue. They require perfection to rent and then won't pay for damages the tenant causes.

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Around here (south Texas) there are loads and loads of "man-cave" cabins that would be perfect
for a small family. 1-2 bedrooms, bath, kitchen, small LR. Water, sewer, a/c. There are usually
20-30 cabins at each location, with laundry and ice available on-site. What a great way to re-
purpose housing that was built for the oil boom. Public transportation is usually nearby, as well
as grocery & pharmacy.



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