TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Terminally ill woman holds two-day party for her 30 closest friends and family and kills herself at the end

Domestic Engineer · Guru

Just reading this makes me nauseous. I would never knowingly attend a party of this nature. It goes against everything I believe.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

This woman had ALS. Her life was only going to get more unlivable. I think gathering together to celebrate their friend while she was still alive - rather than celebrate her after her death - is kind of amazing. How many times have you been to a funeral and thought "I wish the deceased could hear all the wonderful things people are saying about him/her". This is what this weekend was. I think it was beautiful. I don't begrudge her wanting to prevent the extreme suffering she was headed towards. As it was she was unable to scratch an itch if she had one. That's no way to live. And she didn't want to continue suffering I can't blame her.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Thursday 11th of August 2016 09:50:29 PM

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Nope.

It's not right.

Flame away if you want.

karl271 · Guru

Have to go with Mellow Momma this time. Seems like a good way to go considering the conditions she was living in and gave her a good chance to share some time with her friends...

WYSIWYG · Guru

I don't like physician assisted suicide. But I can understand that pain, misery, and suffering can drive people to that extreme.

I also am a little on the fence about it's use in a truly terminal situation (where life is only maintained either by machines or by other drugs). Either way, one is messing with God's plan. I suppose I could support assisted suicide in cases where the person is taking life-maintaining drugs because the two basically cancel each other out. Does ALS have 'required drugs'? I'm not talking about "make life easier" ones, I'm talking about "the disease will kill the patient without them" ones.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ALS is incurable and horrible. Your mind stays clear while you become trapped in a body that won't move at all. I do not believe in assisted suicide, but if I did, this would be the disease that would change my mind.

However, I think the party was a lovely idea for a terminally ill person.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

The party was a wonderful idea.

It's the suicide I don't agree with.

jlbear71 · Guru

If a person truly believe that assisted suicide is against God's plan, do that person take medicine at all? Do they use modern technology for medical issue? Are they vaccinated? Did they vaccinate their children? Those are altering God's plan too.

Yes, I believe that God has a plan for us but he also gave us free will to choose. If He wanted us to live exactly as He wanted, there would not be free will and the ability to choose.

I applaud the woman for having the courage to follow thru with her plan. Unless and until you are in that position, you have no idea what you would do. I sat with my father while he writhed in agony at the end of his life. If he had asked for extra drugs to help him pass away sooner, I would have done it (he did not, for the record). Not because I did not love him, but rather, because of how much I did/do love him. He was in so much pain and agony. He was dying anyway, nothing was going to stop that, he was only hours away.

Go ahead and judge. You will anyway. Call me heartless, call me a bitch, call me a potential murderer. I can live with what I would have done. I will answer to God when it is my turn. And I will stand proudly and answer for any right or wrong I have done in his eyes. I cannot believe that the God I believe in would truly want us to suffer inhumanly.

FNW · Guru

I like the party. Not the suicide.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

God gave us the ability to understand science and use it to keep us healthy.

Suicide goes directly against a commandment.

Thou shall NOT kill.

There is no caveat it that commandment.

None.

sweet tooth · Member

jlbear71 wrote:
If a person truly believe that assisted suicide is against God's plan, do that person take medicine at all? Do they use modern technology for medical issue? Are they vaccinated? Did they vaccinate their children? Those are altering God's plan too.

Yes, I believe that God has a plan for us but he also gave us free will to choose. If He wanted us to live exactly as He wanted, there would not be free will and the ability to choose.

I applaud the woman for having the courage to follow thru with her plan. Unless and until you are in that position, you have no idea what you would do. I sat with my father while he writhed in agony at the end of his life. If he had asked for extra drugs to help him pass away sooner, I would have done it (he did not, for the record). Not because I did not love him, but rather, because of how much I did/do love him. He was in so much pain and agony. He was dying anyway, nothing was going to stop that, he was only hours away.

Go ahead and judge. You will anyway. Call me heartless, call me a bitch, call me a potential murderer. I can live with what I would have done. I will answer to God when it is my turn. And I will stand proudly and answer for any right or wrong I have done in his eyes. I cannot believe that the God I believe in would truly want us to suffer inhumanly.

I think in your father's case it would have been 100% fine to give him extra drugs to help him. He was going to die anyway.

I don't think you are any of the bolded things. I think you are the opposite of those. You wanted to relieve his suffering.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

We are all going to "die anyway".

Where do we draw the line?

sweet tooth · Member

When someone is only a few hours from death, that's definitely in the category of "going to die anyway".

Domestic Engineer · Guru

I think some people justify it because it was "neat and tidy". Would it have been such a wonderful celebration of life if at the end she had taken a gun and blown out her brains?

Job suffered terribly, but he trusted God. I hope if I am ever in that situation I can lean on my Father to get me thru it.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

I think the doctor assisted suicide for the terminally ill is a mercy. The party was a wonderful way to celebrate her life. Slowly passing in a canopy bed on a hillside sounds amazing.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

We've already seen, in other countries, where people have been allowed assisted suicide because the simply were not happy.

Tangerine · Guru

I think this is beautiful. The last few days of my grandmothers life were nightmarish and filled with agonizing pain. Who would wish that on a loved one?

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

lilyofcourse wrote:
We've already seen, in other countries, where people have been allowed assisted suicide because the simply were not happy.

I have to disagree with your reasoning. Too many times, we over regulate to treat the symptom of a problem and not the cause. In this case you want to not allow this form of death because it might lead to others taking advantage of it for the wrong reason. Well let's stop the "wrong reason" and not the right reason.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Tangerine wrote:
I think this is beautiful. The last few days of my grandmothers life were nightmarish and filled with agonizing pain. Who would wish that on a loved one?

I agree. I wouldn't wish a death from ALS on my worst enemy. She should be allowed to die with some dignity. ALS isn't curable and she knew what she was facing. I think she did the brave thing actually.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've already seen, in other countries, where people have been allowed assisted suicide because the simply were not happy.

I have to disagree with your reasoning. Too many times, we over regulate to treat the symptom of a problem and not the cause. In this case you want to not allow this form of death because it might lead to others taking advantage of it for the wrong reason. Well let's stop the "wrong reason" and not the right reason.

See, in my opinion, there isn't a right reason.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

lilyofcourse wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've already seen, in other countries, where people have been allowed assisted suicide because the simply were not happy.

I have to disagree with your reasoning. Too many times, we over regulate to treat the symptom of a problem and not the cause. In this case you want to not allow this form of death because it might lead to others taking advantage of it for the wrong reason. Well let's stop the "wrong reason" and not the right reason.
See, in my opinion, there isn't a right reason.

I understand that. But if it were my loved one who had this horrible disease, I would want them to have this option.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Ok.

I just made a tomato sandwich, you want one?

smile

-- Edited by lilyofcourse on Friday 12th of August 2016 07:41:05 PM

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've already seen, in other countries, where people have been allowed assisted suicide because the simply were not happy.

I have to disagree with your reasoning. Too many times, we over regulate to treat the symptom of a problem and not the cause. In this case you want to not allow this form of death because it might lead to others taking advantage of it for the wrong reason. Well let's stop the "wrong reason" and not the right reason.
See, in my opinion, there isn't a right reason.

I understand that. But if it were my loved one who had this horrible disease, I would want them to have this option.

And you dont want Lily's beliefs to take away your options right?! If she doesn't believe in it, she should just not do it and leave your ability to have that option alone. Right?!

Now you see how I feel about abortion. Same. Thing.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Mellow Momma wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've already seen, in other countries, where people have been allowed assisted suicide because the simply were not happy.

I have to disagree with your reasoning. Too many times, we over regulate to treat the symptom of a problem and not the cause. In this case you want to not allow this form of death because it might lead to others taking advantage of it for the wrong reason. Well let's stop the "wrong reason" and not the right reason.
See, in my opinion, there isn't a right reason.

I understand that. But if it were my loved one who had this horrible disease, I would want them to have this option.
And you dont want Lily's beliefs to take away your options right?! If she doesn't believe in it, she should just not do it and leave your ability to have that option alone. Right?!

Now you see how I feel about abortion. Same. Thing.

No. It ISN'T the same thing AT ALL.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Mellow Momma wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've already seen, in other countries, where people have been allowed assisted suicide because the simply were not happy.

I have to disagree with your reasoning. Too many times, we over regulate to treat the symptom of a problem and not the cause. In this case you want to not allow this form of death because it might lead to others taking advantage of it for the wrong reason. Well let's stop the "wrong reason" and not the right reason.
See, in my opinion, there isn't a right reason.

I understand that. But if it were my loved one who had this horrible disease, I would want them to have this option.
And you dont want Lily's beliefs to take away your options right?! If she doesn't believe in it, she should just not do it and leave your ability to have that option alone. Right?!

Now you see how I feel about abortion. Same. Thing.

Not remotely the same thing. In this situation there is an adult who has dealt with a painful disease for years and is months away from dying and she is making the choice for herself, no one else. An abortion? Someone being careless and selfish is taking a baby's life, a baby who is not sick, not in pain, just pure as can be.

jlbear71 · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've already seen, in other countries, where people have been allowed assisted suicide because the simply were not happy.

I have to disagree with your reasoning. Too many times, we over regulate to treat the symptom of a problem and not the cause. In this case you want to not allow this form of death because it might lead to others taking advantage of it for the wrong reason. Well let's stop the "wrong reason" and not the right reason.
See, in my opinion, there isn't a right reason.

I understand that. But if it were my loved one who had this horrible disease, I would want them to have this option.
And you dont want Lily's beliefs to take away your options right?! If she doesn't believe in it, she should just not do it and leave your ability to have that option alone. Right?!

Now you see how I feel about abortion. Same. Thing.
Not remotely the same thing. In this situation there is an adult who has dealt with a painful disease for years and is months away from dying and she is making the choice for herself, no one else. An abortion? Someone being careless and selfish is taking a baby's life, a baby who is not sick, not in pain, just pure as can be.

It is still two different things. Assisted Death is made by the human that has taken a breath. Even the bible does not take life into consideration until the first breath. A fetus cannot take a breath.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

jlbear71 wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've already seen, in other countries, where people have been allowed assisted suicide because the simply were not happy.

I have to disagree with your reasoning. Too many times, we over regulate to treat the symptom of a problem and not the cause. In this case you want to not allow this form of death because it might lead to others taking advantage of it for the wrong reason. Well let's stop the "wrong reason" and not the right reason.
See, in my opinion, there isn't a right reason.

I understand that. But if it were my loved one who had this horrible disease, I would want them to have this option.
And you dont want Lily's beliefs to take away your options right?! If she doesn't believe in it, she should just not do it and leave your ability to have that option alone. Right?!

Now you see how I feel about abortion. Same. Thing.
Not remotely the same thing. In this situation there is an adult who has dealt with a painful disease for years and is months away from dying and she is making the choice for herself, no one else. An abortion? Someone being careless and selfish is taking a baby's life, a baby who is not sick, not in pain, just pure as can be.
It is still two different things. Assisted Death is made by the human that has taken a breath. Even the bible does not take life into consideration until the first breath. A fetus cannot take a breath.

Where did you read that in the Bible?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

jlbear71 wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
We've already seen, in other countries, where people have been allowed assisted suicide because the simply were not happy.

I have to disagree with your reasoning. Too many times, we over regulate to treat the symptom of a problem and not the cause. In this case you want to not allow this form of death because it might lead to others taking advantage of it for the wrong reason. Well let's stop the "wrong reason" and not the right reason.
See, in my opinion, there isn't a right reason.

I understand that. But if it were my loved one who had this horrible disease, I would want them to have this option.
And you dont want Lily's beliefs to take away your options right?! If she doesn't believe in it, she should just not do it and leave your ability to have that option alone. Right?!

Now you see how I feel about abortion. Same. Thing.
Not remotely the same thing. In this situation there is an adult who has dealt with a painful disease for years and is months away from dying and she is making the choice for herself, no one else. An abortion? Someone being careless and selfish is taking a baby's life, a baby who is not sick, not in pain, just pure as can be.
It is still two different things. Assisted Death is made by the human that has taken a breath. Even the bible does not take life into consideration until the first breath. A fetus cannot take a breath.

Excuse me?? God absolutely considers life far prior to the first breath. If you wish to quote, the Bible, then at least please know what you are talking about.

King James Bible Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

jlbear71 · Guru

Genesis 2:7New International Version (NIV)

7 Then the Lord God formed a man[a] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Here, it seems they don't count until after they are bornand are a month old

Numbers 2:39-40 The Lord said to Moses, “Count all the firstborn Israelite males who are a month old or more and make a list of their names. 41 Take the Levites for me in place of all the firstborn of the Israelites, and the livestock of the Levites in place of all the firstborn of the livestock of the Israelites. I am the Lord.”

42 So Moses counted all the firstborn of the Israelites, as the Lord commanded him. 43 The total number of firstborn males a month old or more, listed by name, was 22,273.

And here is abortion being promoted/performed in the bible

Numbers 5 16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a cursenot harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[d]among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.” 23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar.26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[e] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.

jlbear71 · Guru

But also remember that the Bible is MANs interpretation. And has been changed many times over the years. What was written 1000 +/- years ago has been edited by the church many times. How much is missing? How much has not been released?

jlbear71 · Guru

And let's not leave out anyone who may be Jewish

Most often in Jewish sacred literature, a fetus in the womb is considered a human life “under construction.” The soul is usually described as arriving when the first breath of life is taken at birth. The primary Jewish imagery for the beginning of life comes from Genesis 1:2, where breath hovers above the waters of earth before life emerges from that cosmic womb. Then, in Genesis 2:7, after the body of Adam is fashioned from the clay of the earth, God is described as breathing life into him. These stories frame the basis for the Jewish view that the fetus gains full human rights and status only once the baby’s head has emerged from the birth canal [Ohalot 7:6].

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Nothing like an atheist giving a sermon.

jlbear71 · Guru

I am not an atheist. I was raised Catholic and still consider myself Catholic. Just because I don't believe everything they teach does not mean I don't believe. I have my differences with man's interpretation. I don't believe that God can be cruel and unjust. I don't believe that God is judgemental and that he accepts and loves his humans as he created them. You know, just like the bible tells me so.

jlbear71 · Guru

And one last one, where I believe that if you ask for forgiveness, it shall be given. There are not stipulations or exemptions. Does not matter if you lied, murders or adultered. So, if you are so christian, where is your compassion, your forgiveness and your right to judge? Especially if the sin was not against you but the Lord.

Matthew 6
The Lord's Prayer
5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 Pray then like this:

“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.[a]
10 Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,[c]
12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.[d]

14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

-- Edited by jlbear71 on Friday 12th of August 2016 09:36:38 PM

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

jlbear71 wrote:
I am not an atheist. I was raised Catholic and still consider myself Catholic. Just because I don't believe everything they teach does not mean I don't believe. I have my differences with man's interpretation. I don't believe that God can be cruel and unjust. I don't believe that God is judgemental and that he accepts and loves his humans as he created them. You know, just like the bible tells me so.

God isn't judgemental?

The entire Bible is full of His judgements and constantly warns of 5he coming judgement.

There really isn't anything else to discuss if you don't understand God does and will judge each and every one of us.

jlbear71 · Guru

So maybe judgmental is not the right word I was looking for (blame the two alcoholic drinks I have had so far this evening). And while we may be judged, we will also be forgiven our trespasses if we ask for it. There are more passages about forgiveness and acceptance in the Bible than judgement. And that judgement should be by God, not man.

I think I understand God perfectly fine. And yes, I have studied the Holy Bible and debated with religious figures (priests, nuns, bishops, reverands, deacons, etc) about issues I have with the Church and the Bible. And I am still welcome into the Church with my beliefs as they are. Just because something is written, does not mean I accept it without questioning. I have even discussed other religious material (Torah, Koran, Buddhist Bible, Shruti) with religious figures. Just because I educate myself about other religions, it does not make me an atheist or a non-believer.

But, I do accept that others have different beliefs. What I am debating is that there is no one right way of believing. You have just as much a right to your belief as I do mine. Neither is better or worse then the other. The difference is how accepting you (general) are of what others believe in. I don't insist that my way is the only and right way.