TOTALLY GEEKED!

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

RE: Rising cost of EpiPens worries Long Island doctors, families

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

The Adrenaclick decive you linked to is used differently than the EpiPen and there is fear that people won't know how to use it properly because it is different than tbe EpiPen. The patent doesn't expire until 2025. Google is your friend.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

So it isn't the drug necessarily, but the device that injects the drug?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Because the Adrenaclick is a different device, it cannot be substituted for the EpiPen. You need a RX that specifically prescribes it instead.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

lilyofcourse wrote:
So it isn't the drug necessarily, but the device that injects the drug?

Correct. It is a totally different device.

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
The Adrenaclick decive you linked to is used differently than the EpiPen and there is fear that people won't know how to use it properly because it is different than tbe EpiPen. The patent doesn't expire until 2025. Google is your friend.

Then people are total idiots. They can't learn a new device? Bullschitt. Screaming about not having an alternative when there is a very viable one out there.

I don't feel one bit sorry for them. Not one bit.

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
Because the Adrenaclick is a different device, it cannot be substituted for the EpiPen. You need a RX that specifically prescribes it instead.

Then get a different RX. God, people really are stupid out there...

sweet tooth · Member

I don't care if it's anti-capitalism. I know capitalism is the best option we have, but it's not God. Force them to lower the price. peoples health and lives trumps capitalism.

FNW · Guru

Every time I scan the headings, I always misread this to be "penis" in the title.

That's all.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

FNW wrote:
Every time I scan the headings, I always misread this to be "penis" in the title.

That's all.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Ohfour wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Because the Adrenaclick is a different device, it cannot be substituted for the EpiPen. You need a RX that specifically prescribes it instead.
Then get a different RX. God, people really are stupid out there...

Actually, the applicator and packaging is how the drug companies justify it being a "new" product. That is the criteria that has to change. I mean if you were having a reaction to Jack or what ever, I would find a way to get that anti allergen drug into your vein, even if I had to rip a hole with my finger nail into your arm! Yes I would because that is the kind of bud I am. Oh and I would hold your gorgeous hair back if you need that, to you know, puke.

ed11563 · Guru

The instructions are clear, and seem very easy.

Ohfour · Hooker

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Because the Adrenaclick is a different device, it cannot be substituted for the EpiPen. You need a RX that specifically prescribes it instead.
Then get a different RX. God, people really are stupid out there...
Actually, the applicator and packaging is how the drug companies justify it being a "new" product. That is the criteria that has to change. I mean if you were having a reaction to Jack or what ever, I would find a way to get that anti allergen drug into your vein, even if I had to rip a hole with my finger nail into your arm! Yes I would because that is the kind of bud I am. Oh and I would hold your gorgeous hair back if you need that, to you know, puke.

I do not know that of which you speak of...lol!!!!!!!!

-- Edited by Ohfour on Thursday 25th of August 2016 09:25:14 PM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
The Adrenaclick decive you linked to is used differently than the EpiPen and there is fear that people won't know how to use it properly because it is different than tbe EpiPen. The patent doesn't expire until 2025. Google is your friend.

It's the doctor and/or pharmacist's job to explain how to use a drug to them. Being different is not a reason to avoid prescribing it rather than a ridiculously priced brand.

It's like saying you have to buy a top of the line car because you only know how to push a button to start the car and using a key in a less expensive car would be too difficult to learn.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Momala wrote:

And the EpiPen has a shelf life of ONE year! That's $600 a year, enough to put me in bankruptcy!
I keep my new pens in my purse & the pick-up; I stash the "expired" pens in the boat and the tractor.
The literature says as long as the visible solution is not cloudy, it should still be usable.

I fault Mylan (the purchasing company of EpiPen) for the increase in price. The old company sold it for
under $100 - why can't Mylan? Don't shove the cost of R&D onto one product.
I wouldn't be tossing them out at year one and a day. At least if they are a back up just in case.

I just threw one away when it hit 10 years after expiration.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

HDD has to carry an EpiPen all the time. She's allergic to wasp/bee stings and this is the worst time of the year for those to happen.

She is on Medicaid, so we all pay for it.

IMHO, this price hike is fraud.

ed11563 · Guru

just Czech wrote:
HDD has to carry an EpiPen all the time. She's allergic to wasp/bee stings and this is the worst time of the year for those to happen.

She is on Medicaid, so we all pay for it.

IMHO, this price hike is fraud.

It's not fraud

It's the American Way of making money:

charge what the market will bear.

Be smart, switch to the generic. It's pretty simple to use.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

usuncut.com/class-war/epipen-taxpayer-money/

Big Pharma’s dirty secret: EpiPen was developed entirely with taxpayer moneyTom Cahill | August 24, 2016
Just when you thought the EpiPen scandal couldn’t get any worse.
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While Mylan Pharmaceuticals is cashing in on the EpiPen price hikes, the inventor of the life-saving device, who made it for the public, died in obscurity.

Sheldon Kaplan, who was an engineer for NASA before inventing the EpiPen, lived a humble, middle-class lifestyle. His surviving family members say he was never paid royalties for the device he invented, and never became famous for designing a product now used by millions.

“He was not famous; he was not wealthy,” Kaplan’s 42-year-old son Michael told the Tampa Bay Times. “And I don’t think he would’ve liked to be. I don’t think he expected that.”

After working at NASA, Kaplan started working for Survival Technology, Incorporated in Bethesda, Maryland. Kaplan sought to create a device intended to quickly inject a user suffering from anaphylaxis — a potentially fatal allergic reaction — with an emergency dose of epinephrine. EpiPens are a lifesaver for anyone allergic to common foods, like peanuts, shellfish, and eggs. Before the EpiPen was invented, anaphylactic shock had to be treated by drawing epinephrine from a bottle with a syringe, which was too time-consuming.

In 1973, when Kaplan was finalizing the design concept for the EpiPen, he was approached by the U.S. Department of Defense, which was looking for a device that could quickly inject an easily deliverable antidote for nerve gas. Kaplan’s design was for a device that a person could easily stick into one’s thigh, prompting a spring-loaded mechanism to push a needle containing life-saving medicine into the user’s bloodstream.

Kaplan’s invention became known as the ComboPen, and was initially used by the Pentagon before becoming available for use by the general public several years later as the EpiPen. However, Kaplan left Survival Technology, Incorporated shortly after creating the EpiPen to become a biochemical engineer, and didn’t follow the success of his invention. He lived out his life in a typical suburban home with two modest cars in the garage.

“My husband was always looking for a new challenge, and he tended not to look backward,” Kaplan’s 71-year-old wife, Sheila, told the Times.

“[Kaplan] felt he had a legacy, that he made a difference,” Michael Kaplan said. “My dad was an extremely talented engineer, an analytical guy who delighted in solving technical issues.”

However, for Mylan Pharmaceuticals, which cornered the patent on the EpiPen in 2007, the life-saving device has made billions for the company. According to Bloomberg, a package of two EpiPens costs $415 in the US after insurance discounts. Comparatively, in France, two EpiPens cost just $85 USD. Mylan CEO Heather Bresch’s salary increased by 671 percent after hiking the price of the EpiPen by 461 percent over the past nine years.

Before her hire as CEO, Bresch — daughter of U.S. Senator Joe Manchin (D-W.Va) — was Mylan’s chief lobbyist. In November of 2013, a bill requiring all public schools to carry EpiPens for students with food allergies was signed into law by President Barack Obama. Over the following three years, as schools nationwide bought EpiPens by the truckload, Mylan implemented double-digit price hikes for the EpiPen every other quarter.

Despite the price hikes, Mylan moved to further maximize its profit margins by engaging in a shady corporate accounting trick known as a tax inversion. In 2014, Mylan reincorporated in the Netherlands to lower its effective tax rate, despite its operational headquarters remaining in Pennsylvania. Despite even her own father saying Mylan’s inversion should be illegal, Bresch defended the inversion in an interview with the New York Times.

“You can’t maintain competitiveness by staying at a competitive disadvantage,” Bresch said. “I mean you just can’t.”

After the 500 percent price hike of the EpiPen from 2007 to 2015, the device now accounts for roughly 40 percent of Mylan’s profits. U.S. Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), whose daughter depends on the EpiPen for her own food allergies, has called on the Federal Trade Commission to investigate the price hikes. As of this writing, a petition calling on Mylan to make the EpiPen affordable again has garnered almost 40,000 signatures. Click here to sign.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

n November of 2013, a bill requiring all public schools to carry EpiPens for students with food allergies was signed into law by President Barack Obama. Over the following three years, as schools nationwide bought EpiPens by the truckload, Mylan implemented double-digit price hikes for the EpiPen every other quarter.

There it is - they have a captive market. They gave away a bunch free, but now the schools have to buy them. The government should switch to the cheaper option and tell these people to suck it.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

So the law of supply and demand is the driving factor.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
n November of 2013, a bill requiring all public schools to carry EpiPens for students with food allergies was signed into law by President Barack Obama. Over the following three years, as schools nationwide bought EpiPens by the truckload, Mylan implemented double-digit price hikes for the EpiPen every other quarter.

There it is - they have a captive market. They gave away a bunch free, but now the schools have to buy them. The government should switch to the cheaper option and tell these people to suck it.

Why would they? They created the opportunity for the corruption and at least on Senator's benefited handsomely from it. Now it is that Senator's turn to scratch someone else's back. That's how it works.

FNW · Guru

If he invented the pen for the government, was paid by the government, the government owned the rights to the design and he was already compensated. Not sure how Mylan obtained a patent but perhaps they changed the design.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

FNW wrote:
If he invented the pen for the government, was paid by the government, the government owned the rights to the design and he was already compensated. Not sure how Mylan obtained a patent but perhaps they changed the design.

Mylan probably bought it, being made possible by the bill that passed.

FNW · Guru

I wonder if O owns stock in Mylan.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

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Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Sooo, teach people to use this. Crack the vial, draw it up, inject it. That is what they do at hospitals and emergency rooms if someone comes in with anaphylaxis.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I get what you are saying, LGS.

But is it practical?

The EpiPen is as complicated as clicking a ball point pen.

You can send it with your child anywhere.

Children as young as 5 can do it themselves.

A vial and syringe is a whole other thing.

In an emergency, will the patient be able to draw the correct amount and inject it?

Does it need to be kept chilled?

Do we want children carrying a syringe?

What about vial breakage?

Will another know how to use a vial and syringe if the patient cant?

I get the "use the vial and syringe" statement, but is it truly practical in day to day life?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I know Lilly. The whole situation is ridiculous. And, yes, there would be issues to draw it up using a syringe. But, if the cost is so prohibitive and there is another way to address this situation then we have to come to terms with that.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

As for practicallity, if someone forgoes buying an epi pen due to cost, wouldn't it be better to at least have this available as an option ?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

When it comes to children, the only option is what gets them the right amount when they need it.

Making the "get the vial and syringe" statement is a nonsincere answer.

It isn't a practical solution.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Not to worry. With all this publicity, some company will design a viable option.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
When it comes to children, the only option is what gets them the right amount when they need it.

Making the "get the vial and syringe" statement is a nonsincere answer.

It isn't a practical solution.

Lilly, kids have done self injections for eons. With insulin or other medications. So, no , it is not outside the realm of possibility.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Epi has been around forever, so it certainly could be made by generic manufacturers. And, if there is a market for epi pens, then they should pounce on that.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

lilyofcourse wrote:
I get what you are saying, LGS.

But is it practical?

The EpiPen is as complicated as clicking a ball point pen.

You can send it with your child anywhere.

Children as young as 5 can do it themselves.

A vial and syringe is a whole other thing.
In an emergency, will the patient be able to draw the correct amount and inject it?
Does it need to be kept chilled?
Do we want children carrying a syringe?
What about vial breakage?
Will another know how to use a vial and syringe if the patient cant?
I get the "use the vial and syringe" statement, but is it truly practical in day to day life?

And how many different kinds of pens are there?

I'm sure some enterprising young pharmaceutical company can come up with a cost effective solution.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

It's NOT the drug.

It's the method of getting it into the body.

Yes. Kids have given themselves injections.

Insulin and epinephrine do two completely different things.

Too much insulin can cause

sweating, clamminess, chills
lightheadedness or dizziness and mild confusion
anxiety or nervousness, shakiness
rapid heartbeat
hunger
irritability
double vision or blurred vision
tingling in the lips or around the mouth

Too much epinephrine can cause

Too much epinephrine (epinephrine auto-injector) can cause dangerously high blood pressure, stroke, or death.4

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And that is why I was talking about the "pens" and not the drug.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I get what you are saying, LGS.

But is it practical?

The EpiPen is as complicated as clicking a ball point pen.

You can send it with your child anywhere.

Children as young as 5 can do it themselves.

A vial and syringe is a whole other thing.
In an emergency, will the patient be able to draw the correct amount and inject it?
Does it need to be kept chilled?
Do we want children carrying a syringe?
What about vial breakage?
Will another know how to use a vial and syringe if the patient cant?
I get the "use the vial and syringe" statement, but is it truly practical in day to day life?

And how many different kinds of pens are there?

I'm sure some enterprising young pharmaceutical company can come up with a cost effective solution.

I'm having trouble understanding why another isn't already available.

My mom uses an insulin injecter.

So there has to be other options.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lack of epinephrine in an anaphylactic crisis will result in death.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lawyerlady wrote:
And that is why I was talking about the "pens" and not the drug.

I understand that.

Not sure LGS does.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lack of epinephrine in an anaphylactic crisis will result in death.

Yes. So again, would you have sent your 6 year old off to school with a vial and syringe of a drug that can kill?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Which is different than sending him to school with an epi pen how?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

EpiPen give the right dose.

It's measured and ready to go.

Really.

And tell me, what's the policy in your district?

You're on the school board, how do your schools handle this?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You just want to argue. Epi is cheap. That's a fact. There is no reason for them to jack the price up to astronomical levels. If they choose to do that, there isn't much anyone can do. But, there is an alternative, but you just don't like it. Yes, there are practical issues to address. Doesn't make it an impossibility except in your world.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

If people can't afford epipens, then what do you propose Lilly? Go without?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

When the government passed the bill, they should have included a price they would pay for them. Everyone gauges the government.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
You just want to argue. Epi is cheap. That's a fact. There is no reason for them to jack the price up to astronomical levels. If they choose to do that, there isn't much anyone can do. But, there is an alternative, but you just don't like it. Yes, there are practical issues to address. Doesn't make it an impossibility except in your world.

So your schools would be ok with a few of the kids carrying a vial and syringe around with them all day, every day.

I know episode is cheap.

You're deflecting so as not to answer the question.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Well, there IS an alternative PEN available, which gets rid of any argument about syringes and dosing.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
If people can't afford epipens, then what do you propose Lilly? Go without?

No.

I'm asking how your schools handle this.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lawyerlady wrote:
Well, there IS an alternative PEN available, which gets rid of any argument about syringes and dosing.

MM was talking about these.

It seems there is something we are not completely aware of concerning the pens and why one is preferred over the other.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Well, there IS an alternative PEN available, which gets rid of any argument about syringes and dosing.

MM was talking about these.
It seems there is something we are not completely aware of concerning the pens and why one is preferred over the other.

Yes, you have to remove 2 caps instead of one. How horribly difficult to learn. evileye