TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

RE: Rising cost of EpiPens worries Long Island doctors, families

ed11563 · Guru

I don't know as much as others about schools and school boards and policies.

I DO know a LOT about syringes and vials, non-coring needles used to withdraw fluids from vials,

the technique involved, and changing to an injection needle before injecting.

I would not place that burden on a child who might be going into shock.

It takes good instruction, and practice.

The EpiPen and the generic can both be ready to use in seconds.

Look at it, pull off the appropriate caps and

inject into the outer thigh. 10 to 20 seconds.

Am I the only one here who knows why a non-coring needle is used to take fluid from a vial?

By the way, I sell a LOT of epinephrine.

in vials and in IV bags.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nobody said that was ideal. We are talking about this when epi pen is so unaffordable. That if this is the only option then some available epi is better than no available epi.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
I don't know as much as others about schools and school boards and policies.
I DO know a LOT about syringes and vials, non-coring needles used to withdraw fluids from vials,
the technique involved, and changing to an injection needle before injecting.
I would not place that burden on a child who might be going into shock.
It takes good instruction, and practice.
The EpiPen and the generic can both be ready to use in seconds.
Look at it, pull off the appropriate caps and
inject into the outer thigh. 10 to 20 seconds.
Am I the only one here who knows why a non-coring needle is used to take fluid from a vial?

By the way, I sell a LOT of epinephrine.
in vials and in IV bags.

I assume it has to do with not getting air bubbles in the syringe.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

As for placing the burden on a child, it isn't all that likely that a 5 year old is going to self inject with an auto injector. I would assume that where there are 5 yr olds there is an Adult somewhere. Obviously, auto injectors are easier and the preferred method. But, Lilly seems to think that the world is fraught with impossibility. No a syringe and vial is not ideal. But, it may become a necessity if the pharmacy companies are going to be stupid about these auto injectors.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And as far as I'm concerned, the school nurse should ALWAYS have an alternative to an auto-injector. Anything "auto" can malfunction, and Epi-pens that are not stored at the correct temperature at all times can malfunction or have the medicine altered.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Our county, just on my end, has 5 elementary schools, no nurse at all.

Well, that's something you should be addressing with your school board.

Our school has a full time dedicated nurse. She and Jojo are close and she has me on speed dial.

Private vs. public

Divine Geek · Guru

On a slightly related note: if you have an Epi Pen (or the other) and a potential need for it, make sure those around you know that. Since this has been in the news, my coworker pulls out her Epi pen and discovers it is expired. I've shared an offic with her for over 2 years and had no idea she had an Epi pen. And no idea she was allergic to something that may require use of an Epi pen. If she had a reaction, I would be totally caught off guard and of no help. I'm not saying that you have to wear a sign around your neck but geez, we spend 10 hours a day, 5 days a week together. This seems like information that would be helpful.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Our county, just on my end, has 5 elementary schools, no nurse at all.

Well, that's something you should be addressing with your school board.

Our school has a full time dedicated nurse. She and Jojo are close and she has me on speed dial.
Exactly. Your world isn't our world Lilly. If you have NO nurse for 5 schools, something is wrong.

No. My world isn't your world and your world isn't mine.

YOU made a flippant remark.

When questioned about how your school would handle that situation and policy, you post a portion of policy that doesn't make exception for a syringe, then you give a vague "we would discuss it" and when pressed about a contingency during the discussion and given possible incidences and asked how those could be handled, you accuse me of having and agenda and making snide remarks.

I've not said one way or another what a person should or shouldn't do.

But I've been cussed at, called names, and shamed.

ed11563 · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned, the school nurse should ALWAYS have an alternative to an auto-injector. Anything "auto" can malfunction, and Epi-pens that are not stored at the correct temperature at all times can malfunction or have the medicine altered.

YES, every school nurse should have epinephrine vials in her bag of tricks, and

written permission from the parents of every kid to use it if needed, and

a physician or ER on speed dial to get medical approval to use it.

Syringes, needles, and vials do not belong in the hands of children. Or untrained teachers or administrators.

How many people understand that drawing fluid from a vial with an injection needle (instead of a non-coring needle)

can take a piece of rubber from the top of the vial, which would then be injected and could lead to an almost immediate

stroke, heart attack, or pulmonary embolism?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
As for placing the burden on a child, it isn't all that likely that a 5 year old is going to self inject with an auto injector. I would assume that where there are 5 yr olds there is an Adult somewhere. Obviously, auto injectors are easier and the preferred method. But, Lilly seems to think that the world is fraught with impossibility. No a syringe and vial is not ideal. But, it may become a necessity if the pharmacy companies are going to be stupid about these auto injectors.

Again, if the child can not pull a dose and administer a shot with a syringe, who else will be able to?

Are you going to have teachers able to calculate a dose and pull it?

With the auto injector, any of them, the dose is premeasured.

No guess work.

No over dose.

What's going to happen if a teacher pulls too much, over doses the kid and he has a stroke or dies?

The REASON the auto injectors are preferred over a syringe is to avoid liability.

Now call me ignorant or whatever, but I've been around long enough to know the school wants as little liability as possible.

Too much insulin can make a kid throw up or pass out.

Too much epinephrine can kill.

And if there isn't a nurse there at all times, which there isn't in your school, how is a kid having a reaction at the elementry school going to get a syringe out of the nurses office when the nurse is at one of the other 3 buildings?

Who would calculate and pull the dose?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned, the school nurse should ALWAYS have an alternative to an auto-injector. Anything "auto" can malfunction, and Epi-pens that are not stored at the correct temperature at all times can malfunction or have the medicine altered.
YES, every school nurse should have epinephrine vials in her bag of tricks, and
written permission from the parents of every kid to use it if needed, and
a physician or ER on speed dial to get medical approval to use it.

Syringes, needles, and vials do not belong in the hands of children. Or untrained teachers or administrators.

How many people understand that drawing fluid from a vial with an injection needle (instead of a non-coring needle)
can take a piece of rubber from the top of the vial, which would then be injected and could lead to an almost immediate
stroke, heart attack, or pulmonary embolism?

Thank you.

They are not thinking about the practical application of a syringe vs autoinjector.

Divine Geek · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
As for placing the burden on a child, it isn't all that likely that a 5 year old is going to self inject with an auto injector. I would assume that where there are 5 yr olds there is an Adult somewhere. Obviously, auto injectors are easier and the preferred method. But, Lilly seems to think that the world is fraught with impossibility. No a syringe and vial is not ideal. But, it may become a necessity if the pharmacy companies are going to be stupid about these auto injectors.
Again, if the child can not pull a dose and administer a shot with a syringe, who else will be able to?
Are you going to have teachers able to calculate a dose and pull it?
With the auto injector, any of them, the dose is premeasured.
No guess work.
No over dose.
What's going to happen if a teacher pulls too much, over doses the kid and he has a stroke or dies?
The REASON the auto injectors are preferred over a syringe is to avoid liability.
Now call me ignorant or whatever, but I've been around long enough to know the school wants as little liability as possible.
Too much insulin can make a kid throw up or pass out.
Too much epinephrine can kill.
And if there isn't a nurse there at all times, which there isn't in your school, how is a kid having a reaction at the elementry school going to get a syringe out of the nurses office when the nurse is at one of the other 3 buildings?
Who would calculate and pull the dose?

All of those are valid questions and concerns. Which would be part of the discussion the schools would have to have if the situation presented itself - which is exactly what LGS said would happen.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Divine Geek wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
As for placing the burden on a child, it isn't all that likely that a 5 year old is going to self inject with an auto injector. I would assume that where there are 5 yr olds there is an Adult somewhere. Obviously, auto injectors are easier and the preferred method. But, Lilly seems to think that the world is fraught with impossibility. No a syringe and vial is not ideal. But, it may become a necessity if the pharmacy companies are going to be stupid about these auto injectors.
Again, if the child can not pull a dose and administer a shot with a syringe, who else will be able to?
Are you going to have teachers able to calculate a dose and pull it?
With the auto injector, any of them, the dose is premeasured.
No guess work.
No over dose.
What's going to happen if a teacher pulls too much, over doses the kid and he has a stroke or dies?
The REASON the auto injectors are preferred over a syringe is to avoid liability.
Now call me ignorant or whatever, but I've been around long enough to know the school wants as little liability as possible.
Too much insulin can make a kid throw up or pass out.
Too much epinephrine can kill.
And if there isn't a nurse there at all times, which there isn't in your school, how is a kid having a reaction at the elementry school going to get a syringe out of the nurses office when the nurse is at one of the other 3 buildings?
Who would calculate and pull the dose?

All of those are valid questions and concerns. Which would be part of the discussion the schools would have to have if the situation presented itself - which is exactly what LGS said would happen.

Yeah.

But what about.in the meantime?

It can take time to get discussions and actions done and even longer to implement any changes.

A kid can't just show up at school with a syringe and a note from mom saying this is all we can afford.

A syringe violates school policy.

Divine Geek · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Divine Geek wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
As for placing the burden on a child, it isn't all that likely that a 5 year old is going to self inject with an auto injector. I would assume that where there are 5 yr olds there is an Adult somewhere. Obviously, auto injectors are easier and the preferred method. But, Lilly seems to think that the world is fraught with impossibility. No a syringe and vial is not ideal. But, it may become a necessity if the pharmacy companies are going to be stupid about these auto injectors.
Again, if the child can not pull a dose and administer a shot with a syringe, who else will be able to?
Are you going to have teachers able to calculate a dose and pull it?
With the auto injector, any of them, the dose is premeasured.
No guess work.
No over dose.
What's going to happen if a teacher pulls too much, over doses the kid and he has a stroke or dies?
The REASON the auto injectors are preferred over a syringe is to avoid liability.
Now call me ignorant or whatever, but I've been around long enough to know the school wants as little liability as possible.
Too much insulin can make a kid throw up or pass out.
Too much epinephrine can kill.
And if there isn't a nurse there at all times, which there isn't in your school, how is a kid having a reaction at the elementry school going to get a syringe out of the nurses office when the nurse is at one of the other 3 buildings?
Who would calculate and pull the dose?

All of those are valid questions and concerns. Which would be part of the discussion the schools would have to have if the situation presented itself - which is exactly what LGS said would happen.
Yeah.
But what about.in the meantime?
It can take time to get discussions and actions done and even longer to implement any changes.
A kid can't just show up at school with a syringe and a note from mom saying this is all we can afford.
A syringe violates school policy.

In my opinion? Then the kid can't go to school alone. Either the child stays home until the issue is resolved, the parent is readily available at all times with the needed dose, or they find a way to get the Epi Pen.

There are options. I'm not saying they are good ones, but there are options.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Yeah. Those are options.

And it can take a year to make changes.

Hands are being tied.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Our county, just on my end, has 5 elementary schools, no nurse at all.

Well, that's something you should be addressing with your school board.

Our school has a full time dedicated nurse. She and Jojo are close and she has me on speed dial.
Private vs. public

My children attend public school.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Our county, just on my end, has 5 elementary schools, no nurse at all.

Well, that's something you should be addressing with your school board.

Our school has a full time dedicated nurse. She and Jojo are close and she has me on speed dial.
Private vs. public

My children attend public school.

I thought you said they went to private school.

Anyway.

Not all schools do.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

14022092_10207001864180880_6184370484846

Here's the generic.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Our county, just on my end, has 5 elementary schools, no nurse at all.

Well, that's something you should be addressing with your school board.

Our school has a full time dedicated nurse. She and Jojo are close and she has me on speed dial.
Private vs. public

My children attend public school.
I thought you said they went to private school.
Anyway.
Not all schools do.

Nope. See how you can think the wrong thing.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Our county, just on my end, has 5 elementary schools, no nurse at all.

Well, that's something you should be addressing with your school board.

Our school has a full time dedicated nurse. She and Jojo are close and she has me on speed dial.
Private vs. public

My children attend public school.
I thought you said they went to private school.
Anyway.
Not all schools do.

Nope. See how you can think the wrong thing.

Still doesn't change my valid points.

See how you can't see outside your own thought process?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lilly will argue with anybody! lol

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Our county, just on my end, has 5 elementary schools, no nurse at all.

Well, that's something you should be addressing with your school board.

Our school has a full time dedicated nurse. She and Jojo are close and she has me on speed dial.
Private vs. public

My children attend public school.
I thought you said they went to private school.
Anyway.
Not all schools do.

Nope. See how you can think the wrong thing.
Still doesn't change my valid points.
See how you can't see outside your own thought process?

You didn't really have any valid points. You think your little small town is how it is everywhere and you think you know everything. You ignore the basic facts presented to keep arguing your flawed "points", and you have even basic facts wrong.

And if schools don't have nurses, that should really be your focus.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Valid question

Is a syringe against school policy?

If the vial and syringe are accepted into policy, where will they be kept?

If kept on the student, how is student to keep these secure?

If kept with nurse, who has access to it on the days the nurse is not there?

Simple questions that need to be answered before someone can be flippant with the "get the syringe" option.

I'm not even talking about auto injector at all.

The comment was made to just get the vial and syringe if you can't afford the autoinjector.

These are questions that a parent has to have answers to before they can make a decision.

I understand it makes ya'll feel better to belittle me but it really doesn't change anything.

You can not tell a parent to just get the syringe without understanding all the implications.

The point of the auto injectors is to insure proper and easy dosing in the event of a medical emergency.

My town isn't podunk backwoods USA.

No. There are not nurses in schools.

So while you may have your shoulda, coulda, would ideas, this is a FACT here.

You want to say get a nurse.

Ok.

But the nurse isn't going to be there every single day.

What then?

-- Edited by lilyofcourse on Monday 29th of August 2016 09:20:49 AM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Everything varies by school district. And until very recently, even auto-injectors were not allowed to be kept on students. Policies are CHANGEABLE.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

Ohfour · Hooker

Auto injectors were never allowed to be kept by students at my kids' schools. They always had to be in the office and had to be administered by the nurse. Same with inhalers. I think it's a whole lotta nothing to be upset about. The meds are available, just not how one would prefer. Fine. Then pay the money. No one is stopping anyone from getting meds they need the way they want. Beggars can't be choosers...

Whenitrains · Member

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Our county, just on my end, has 5 elementary schools, no nurse at all.

Well, that's something you should be addressing with your school board.

Our school has a full time dedicated nurse. She and Jojo are close and she has me on speed dial.
Exactly. Your world isn't our world Lilly. If you have NO nurse for 5 schools, something is wrong.

What about all the other hundreds of students there? Is the nurse close to them and does she have their parents on speed dial?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Whenitrains wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Our county, just on my end, has 5 elementary schools, no nurse at all.

Well, that's something you should be addressing with your school board.

Our school has a full time dedicated nurse. She and Jojo are close and she has me on speed dial.
Exactly. Your world isn't our world Lilly. If you have NO nurse for 5 schools, something is wrong.
What about all the other hundreds of students there? Is the nurse close to them and does she have their parents on speed dial?

She's available for all of them. My child just happens to be a klutz.

Cheerios4606 · Guru

When son #2 was around 10, he inadvertently epi penned himself. He was 'pretending' with it and thought it was a 'click, click' like a pen. In his mind, he was going to click it to see the needle come out the other end so he could look at it. Not realizing that is NOT how it works, he 'clicked' it, and he got a shot in his thumb. We had to go to the emergency room and they watched his finger for a few hours. They were looking to see if hypothermia type symptoms would kill the tip of his thumb.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

So did you check all see where the company will make a generic version available at 1/2 the price? So generic will cost $300? Azzes

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Not check. Bad phone, bad, bad phone