Dear Carolyn: What should a parent say when the other parent knows they have a mean kid? My 7-year-old son has recently decided to take a break from a friend he’s known for five years because the former friend is mean — calls him an idiot, degrades him, etc. The other parent is asking to set up a play date, and I don’t know if I should continue ducking or say that my son has given up for now. She has recognized her son’s mean streak with respect to other kids, but I’ve never seen a consequence implemented.
Mean Kids
Mean Kids: Please don’t duck this. “Recent play dates haven’t gone well, and my son has asked for a break. I’m sorry.”
Unless they’re told when their kids display serious and persistent bad behaviors, parents can’t do their most pressing job: to teach their kids to function appropriately in society.
You’re not off that hook just because this other parent has so far — to your knowledge — failed to use the information properly. Keep providing it when appropriate. Don’t make denial an easy option for her.
And don’t lose sight of the fact, when you’re delivering this bad news, that you could just as easily be receiving it. Meanness in kids is too often oversimplified into bad kids vs. good kids. There are certainly some extremes, but the middle is wide and gray and includes kids who have both taken abuse and dished it out. Power dynamics among peers can shift frequently, and even “good” kids try out power trips on their friends, because trying things out is what kids do. Support your son and be honest with this mom, but keep your eyes open, too.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
The mom of the mean kid still wants someone to play with her kid. But sometimes the best punishment is natural consequences - if you are mean, no one wants to play with you. And the kid needs to hear it - not just the mom.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
The mom of the mean kid still wants someone to play with her kid. But sometimes the best punishment is natural consequences - if you are mean, no one wants to play with you. And the kid needs to hear it - not just the mom.
Absolutely. He's going to be one very lonely little boy...
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I can't believe the other mom has let it go on this long. I have heard friend's say to their kids, and I have said to my kids "If you act that way, so-and-so isn't going to want to play with you anymore."
As to the LW, I would have stepped in if a friend continually degraded my kid- even if their own parent didn't. How has this been going on for FIVE years?!
I have a question around this. My son is very happy go lucky. He is willing to play with anyone anytime. To the point he is almost needy. On the other hand, one of his friends is a negative nancy with passive aggressive tendencies that drive me up a wall. "Gee, I wish we could play on the xbox. This is boring and stupid." (repeated over and over despite me telling the kids they have to play something other than electronics)
They had a falling out over the summer and werent friends anymore. I was like ok fine. These things happen and I am sure they will be best buds again soon. But then little Johnny started saying some rather mean lies about my kid to a mutual friend of theirs. I was fuming. Now all of a sudden, they are best friends again and my kid has forgiven him all for the sake of having someone to play with again.
At what point do you tell your kid that Johnny is a little chit and you dont want him playing with him so much cuz he is annoying to have around?
Or do I suck it up and hope my kid wises up to Johnny's shinanigans?
Cheerios, why not ask the kid, in front of your son, about the mean things and tell him that behavior is not allowed in your house. Do the same thing when he is passive aggressive
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Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
I have a question around this. My son is very happy go lucky. He is willing to play with anyone anytime. To the point he is almost needy. On the other hand, one of his friends is a negative nancy with passive aggressive tendencies that drive me up a wall. "Gee, I wish we could play on the xbox. This is boring and stupid." (repeated over and over despite me telling the kids they have to play something other than electronics)
They had a falling out over the summer and werent friends anymore. I was like ok fine. These things happen and I am sure they will be best buds again soon. But then little Johnny started saying some rather mean lies about my kid to a mutual friend of theirs. I was fuming. Now all of a sudden, they are best friends again and my kid has forgiven him all for the sake of having someone to play with again.
At what point do you tell your kid that Johnny is a little chit and you dont want him playing with him so much cuz he is annoying to have around?
Or do I suck it up and hope my kid wises up to Johnny's shinanigans?
The next time Johnny says that this is "boring and stupid", tell him those words are not allowed in your house and if he says them again, he'll have to go home b/c he obviously isn't having a good time, and you prefer not to hear insults.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Son is now 12 and they have been friends for at least the last 5 years. It is just grating on me. I try to watch over them when they are at our house, and I HAVE corrected him time and again by telling him "if you cant play nice, perhaps it is time to go home" or "Enough with the negative comments." But being the chit he is, it is just part of his dna and he will never change. I am not his mommy and am tired of being the one to parent him and his behavior. His mom is a great girlfriend of mine, but I just dont think she gets how much of a meany her son is and she usually brushes it off. I am to the point now, I just dont want him over at my house cuz I dont have the patience to deal with his meanness.
Son is now 12 and they have been friends for at least the last 5 years. It is just grating on me. I try to watch over them when they are at our house, and I HAVE corrected him time and again by telling him "if you cant play nice, perhaps it is time to go home" or "Enough with the negative comments." But being the chit he is, it is just part of his dna and he will never change. I am not his mommy and am tired of being the one to parent him and his behavior. His mom is a great girlfriend of mine, but I just dont think she gets how much of a meany her son is and she usually brushes it off. I am to the point now, I just dont want him over at my house cuz I dont have the patience to deal with his meanness.
Have you followed through with that, though - or was it just words? You don't want him there, so follow through and send him home. Just pick up the phone, call his mother and say "it's time for you to come get Johnny. He is bored and says everything is stupid."
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Maybe if you send him home every time he complains he is bored he'll get the message. Tell him you have warned him in the past & it is time to go.
Keep in mind I don't have kids & have no idea how to execute that move other than being kind of a bitch....so it might backfire & your own kid will be mad at you.
My son came home a week or so and said he was bored at so and so's house. So I told him since it's boring over there he can stay home. I didn't want him to tell his friend he was bored at his house. (I asked him if he said that to his friend and he said, "No.") Not sure what I would do if he had told his friend he was bored except not allow him to go back over there and have a strong talk about manners.
I have had basically the same conversation with each of my kids, just at different times.
There are times when friends are no longer friends. People change, life changes, and both have different needs or goals and they are not friends like they once were. It's ok when that happens. It doesn't mean you stop being nice to them or stop talking to them when you see them in school or church, but that you just don't spend time together outside those places.
As for mean behavior in my house, I'll correct them. I've even called a parent to come get their kid cause the kid wasn't behaving.
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Son is now 12 and they have been friends for at least the last 5 years. It is just grating on me. I try to watch over them when they are at our house, and I HAVE corrected him time and again by telling him "if you cant play nice, perhaps it is time to go home" or "Enough with the negative comments." But being the chit he is, it is just part of his dna and he will never change. I am not his mommy and am tired of being the one to parent him and his behavior. His mom is a great girlfriend of mine, but I just dont think she gets how much of a meany her son is and she usually brushes it off. I am to the point now, I just dont want him over at my house cuz I dont have the patience to deal with his meanness.
Have you followed through with that, though - or was it just words? You don't want him there, so follow through and send him home. Just pick up the phone, call his mother and say "it's time for you to come get Johnny. He is bored and says everything is stupid."
Absoflippinlutly I have! He throws a fit cuz he doesnt wanna go home and all, but his mom rolls her eyes at his bad behavior. It just gets stupid to watch. But then a couple days later, there is my cheery kid asking to play with Johnny again.
Cheerios. I so understand. DD had a friend like that too, and she is such a 'people pleaser'--I hate that term- let's just say she likes to make others happy- that she would bend over backwards trying to make the playdate fun for the little shi.. I mean kid, and then she would feel bad when he huffed out when he didn't get his way. Because that's what he would do. He would pester her over and over until she did what he wanted, there was no compromise or taking turns, either they played the games he wanted or he would threaten to leave and she would get upset. I kept intervening at first, giving him the benefit of the doubt and trying to find something they both wanted to do (nope he was a just selfish and greedy) then trying to make him see reason ("You wouldn't like it if your friends never played what you wanted, right?") and then I just had to start letting him leave. And I would call him out on it. He threatened to leave, and I'd say "OK, that's probably a good idea, since you aren't playing very nice/having any fun/etc.."
There were a lot of talks with DD too, at first we had them after he left. I would point out things he said and ask her how that made her feel. I would ask her if any of her other friends treated her that way ('sometimes, but they work it out'). I asked her if she has treated other kids that way ('she doesn't try to, and she tries to find things they both like to do, and she would never leave just because she doesn't get her way)'. I would ask her what she thought she could have done to make him happy and stay- and then guide her to the answer, that there was nothing. She did nothing wrong, but he was unwilling to do any work into make the play date a fun one. Then I started asking these questions in front of him, while he was doing it. It definitely made him uncomfortable, but did not change his behavior. Which is odd at this age (8) Usually when kids have their bad behavior pointed out they try to change it, or at least try to act like they are going to. He was just defiant and spoiled, imo. So I said no the last time he came over to ask to play and said that he didn't seem to have any fun when he came over. He never came over again. And then he moved. So I guess I got lucky. DD was upset when I said no, but oh well. I told her why and that she deserves to spend time with people who treat her nicely. She is still learning how to handle social situations and I don't want her to think that being treated that way is acceptable.
Does your son have any other friends he could spend more time with so he isn't as willing to put up with this kid?
DD8 has a sometimes mean friend. Her mom is totally aware and apologizes profusely. I actually leave it up to DD whether or not she wants to play with her. Usually, she says yes. OK, cool. When she says no, I call the mom and explain what kind of behavior it is that is turning DD off. The friend has been diagnosed with Aspergers so we are careful to address simply the behavior itself and not what we feel or what we think she's up to (because she doesn't always know when she's being socially inappropriate). This helps keep it short and to the point for the mom to address (the mom is a dear friend of mine). It's good for all kids to know when they have crossed a line. We have had good results just being honest and accepting her idiosyncrasies when they arise. Her mom has asked us to take this approach and it has worked great for all play dates - even those with clueless parents.
Son is now 12 and they have been friends for at least the last 5 years. It is just grating on me. I try to watch over them when they are at our house, and I HAVE corrected him time and again by telling him "if you cant play nice, perhaps it is time to go home" or "Enough with the negative comments." But being the chit he is, it is just part of his dna and he will never change. I am not his mommy and am tired of being the one to parent him and his behavior. His mom is a great girlfriend of mine, but I just dont think she gets how much of a meany her son is and she usually brushes it off. I am to the point now, I just dont want him over at my house cuz I dont have the patience to deal with his meanness.
Sometimes it is best to let kids sort out their own friendships. I mean, my sons and their friends would call each other names. It was just something they did. And, they are all and still are the best of friends. None of them got offended by it. What does your son say? Does he notice or find it offensive? He may grate on you but maybe they have a relationship where they call each other a buckethead.
Cheerios - what would you do if this child took a crap on your carpet every time he came over, without remorse, and left your DS to clean it up? Your DS still wants to play with him but you KNOW he is just going to take a crap on the carpet? You would tell your DS that he isn't allowed to play with the other boy until he learns his manners. Well that boy is taking a crap on your son - metaphorically speaking. Tell your DS he is not allowed to see the other boy until he learns some manners. Your son is more important than your carpet!
I have told my kids they are not allowed to have certain people over to the house. I give them specific reasons why, I tell them they can still talk to the child at school and should be polite but that they are not welcome over to play. I let DDs know that I will not tolerate others treating them poorly and they should not allow it either. This is how you teach your child what is acceptable treatment from others.
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Out of all the lies I have told, "just kidding" is my favorite !
Cheerios. I so understand. DD had a friend like that too, and she is such a 'people pleaser'--I hate that term- let's just say she likes to make others happy- that she would bend over backwards trying to make the playdate fun for the little shi.. I mean kid, and then she would feel bad when he huffed out when he didn't get his way. Because that's what he would do. He would pester her over and over until she did what he wanted, there was no compromise or taking turns, either they played the games he wanted or he would threaten to leave and she would get upset. I kept intervening at first, giving him the benefit of the doubt and trying to find something they both wanted to do (nope he was a just selfish and greedy) then trying to make him see reason ("You wouldn't like it if your friends never played what you wanted, right?") and then I just had to start letting him leave. And I would call him out on it. He threatened to leave, and I'd say "OK, that's probably a good idea, since you aren't playing very nice/having any fun/etc.."
There were a lot of talks with DD too, at first we had them after he left. I would point out things he said and ask her how that made her feel. I would ask her if any of her other friends treated her that way ('sometimes, but they work it out'). I asked her if she has treated other kids that way ('she doesn't try to, and she tries to find things they both like to do, and she would never leave just because she doesn't get her way)'. I would ask her what she thought she could have done to make him happy and stay- and then guide her to the answer, that there was nothing. She did nothing wrong, but he was unwilling to do any work into make the play date a fun one. Then I started asking these questions in front of him, while he was doing it. It definitely made him uncomfortable, but did not change his behavior. Which is odd at this age (8) Usually when kids have their bad behavior pointed out they try to change it, or at least try to act like they are going to. He was just defiant and spoiled, imo. So I said no the last time he came over to ask to play and said that he didn't seem to have any fun when he came over. He never came over again. And then he moved. So I guess I got lucky. DD was upset when I said no, but oh well. I told her why and that she deserves to spend time with people who treat her nicely. She is still learning how to handle social situations and I don't want her to think that being treated that way is acceptable.
Does your son have any other friends he could spend more time with so he isn't as willing to put up with this kid?
Thank you thank you for this! I think I am going to try again and go at it with these tactics. Perhaps that will help the situation. My son doesnt like it when Johnny acts like a diptwad, but there is really only one other kid available to play with so he puts up with it. I am quickly finding out that friend number 2 is a chit stirrer and pathological liar, bating my son and Johnny to hate each other. I swear... where are all the GOOD kids? ugh!
I've got good kids! And everyone that comes to play is a good kid. I have arranged it, though, over the years that my children's closest friends have parents that I know, so I know what kind of parenting they have.
We've had a couple of issues through the years, and those children were one play date occurrences. And for the one where I knew her mother - I told her the truth because she asked me, too b/c her daughter was never getting invited back for 2nd play dates. In that family - the dad was the problem - he refused to discipline his little princess and wouldn't let the mom when he was there.
I did have one friend, though, that her child was and is a nightmare. Play dates were only at her house, I couldn't handle her kid and she knew it. Her problem was being too nice, and honestly not being bothered by basically anything the kids did. She's a special needs kindergarten teacher, and even her school told her she is too nice and accommodating to special needs kids - letting EVERYTHING roll right off of her.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
