Dear Carolyn: How do you make a decision about faith in a mixed-religion couple? How do I have a rational discussion about something that inherently is beyond rationality?
I’m dating a wonderful woman who is a perfect match — except we’re not the same religion. I’m fine with her choices and more than happy to support them. Except that’s not enough; I’m expected to convert, too.
I’m having trouble articulating what bothers me most about this. I have a feeling this is part of her “princess fantasy” of what a wedding and happily-ever-after will look like, without an appreciation for how real life might impact it.
There is a selfish assumption that I be the one to convert. She adamantly will never consider doing so for me — not that I’d expect her to. But it’s the whole “you sacrifice and I don’t” thing that bothers me, when I think couples should be about shared sacrifices.
I am also concerned about a possible social chill on my family and friends, who are also not of this same religion.
Oh, yeah, and there are doctrinal areas of disagreement. And I’m feeling pushed to decide, even though by her own admission it took her 20-plus years to become spiritually mature in her beliefs.
Chicago
Chicago: Perfect, you mean, aside from the princess fantasies, selfish motives and unrealistic expectations?
Wow.
If this were just about faith, I imagine it would be an easier decision. But you’re conflating faith, fairness, character, societal intolerance and those dubious perfection claims — and knotting them with the common thread of astonishing communication problems.
Get your priorities straight, then get straight with her.
Life-prioritization quiz time! The following questions either end the discussion or lead to the next question:
(1) Is your faith such that adopting another is even possible? If no, then stop here.
If there’s room in your beliefs to convert, then: (2) Is she worth leaving your faith, or is your faith worth leaving her?
If you choose her, then: (3) Do you believe in her enough, and in her rationale, to convert gladly?
If you’re doubting, then: (4) Consider context. “Shared sacrifices” don’t mean that each of you budges exactly 50 percent. Sometimes it means you cave this time, and she caves on something else you’re adamant about — assuming both of you really mean it, and aren’t just caving to preserve harmony (thereby rendering it fraudulent, by the way, which will make for bigger problems later). When a partnership works, both of you take responsibility for your own andthe other’s well-being.
If you question her commitment to that, then: (5) You suspend this inner dialogue, and start talking to her. “How would you define ‘shared sacrifices’?” Discuss.
If you do trust each other, then: (6) You both figure out what foreseeable changes marriage would entail. This is where you factor in “social chill,” doctrinal disagreements, the general “perfection” of this match, location, kids, flossing, etc. Don’t blow past the little things. Life with someone is an accumulation of little things.
Then: (7) You both weigh if you’re ready to adjust for each other.
Or, for anyone. The best way to decide — the only way, really — is for you both to know yourselves. Then, show each other exactly what that means, without obstructing the view.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Traditionally speaking, children follow the religion of the mother.
My thought is that this woman feels that her religion means more to her than his does to him, and I kind of have to agree. His letter wasn't about how faithful he is to his religion and he can't bear the thought of changing - his letter was just pissy because she dares to presume he'll be the one to convert and not her. He also seems dismissive of her religion and how long it took her to mature in her faith.
He should find a different girlfriend - for both their sakes.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
It doesn't say what either religion is, and that could greatly affect my answer.
2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
I started reading his letter and I automatically jumped to the assumption that the response was gonna be very negative to the religious, but in fact the answer was pretty spot on.
IDK - I read it that he was more traditional & she was more of a new age type spirituality. I got that impression because he said there would be a social chill from friends & family. I don't see how becoming a traditional Christian would have that effect. Also that it took her 20 years to spiritually mature in her beliefs. That just sounds so Goddess or new age to me.
Unless he belongs to a religion that isn't Christian.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
DF is an atheist and it really bothers me. But I don't make an issue out of it. He says grace with me at dinner time and comes to church on Easter and Christmas, and he let's his son come to Sunday school. I do wish he believed but like you said Lindley, you can't force faith and I certainly don't want to badger him about it and push him further away.
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Was it a bad day?
Or was it a bad five minutes that you milked all day?
I think that people of differing religions can get along, and can even be successful as a couple or as spouses. I think the line should be drawn at a demand to convert though, from either side. I don't see any harm in asking them to, but I do see harm in demanding it.
If they were good enough for you before you demanded that they convert, why would they be any different afterward? If their only reason to convert is because of your demand, all their conversion would prove is that they don't have faith in their convictions.
A person must come to God because they want to. Not because another person made them.
What is she actually asking him to do by "converting"? Obviously, it gives him the title of "i am a Methodist" or whatever. But, he doesn't really seem all that interested in it. Is she concerned about future children? If so, he can agree to raise future children in that faith. However, if he doesn't really believe that faith, then what is the point?
In some instances, the church will not recognize the marriage if both are not of the same faith.
To some, this could mean they are sinning.
Sharing the same faith is very important to some people.
It is to me.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
In some instances, the church will not recognize the marriage if both are not of the same faith.
To some, this could mean they are sinning.
Sharing the same faith is very important to some people.
It is to me.
Then i assume you would want to marry someone who is in the faith. Either this is vastly important to her or it isn't. If it is, why is she with him who doesn't share her faith. If it isn't, then what does it matter.
My MIL is Catholic and my FIL in Hindi. They got married in the Catholic church. He had to agree to raise the children Catholic, which he did, and he attended mass while the kids were growing up.
They will celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary this year.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
I don't know about anyone else but I am a sinner on an everyday basis.
I do not, however, believe it's a sin to be with someone who has different beliefs. Isn't that what missions are all about? Who knows if, in time, I or anyone else could bring their partners to faith. Better to find the one lost sheep than stay with the saved 99.
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Was it a bad day?
Or was it a bad five minutes that you milked all day?
I don't know about anyone else but I am a sinner on an everyday basis.
I do not, however, believe it's a sin to be with someone who has different beliefs. Isn't that what missions are all about? Who knows if, in time, I or anyone else could bring their partners to faith. Better to find the one lost sheep than stay with the saved 99.
I agree, Vette. But, it is different if you have such drastically different beliefs and will not be able to agree how to raise your kids.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
I don't know about anyone else but I am a sinner on an everyday basis.
I do not, however, believe it's a sin to be with someone who has different beliefs. Isn't that what missions are all about? Who knows if, in time, I or anyone else could bring their partners to faith. Better to find the one lost sheep than stay with the saved 99.
Not really. The Bible says do not be unequally yoked. So, marrying a nonbeliever is a bad idea. In reality, that person is far more likely to go astray than to bring that person to Christ. And, what about children you will have? You are setting them up to be raised by a nonbeliever. Seems like a really bad approach to marriage.
I had a different spin on this whole thing. I was a Christian girl, getting a divorce, telling a new date (future dream hubby prince charming) that I did not want to date "Christian men" cuz they always treated their wives horribly.
I am glad I was cautious but did not strictly and stringently adhere to the "unequally yoked" thing. Sure we had differences, but due to a combination of me not pushing, and him giving a little, he actually wound up coming around and accepting Jesus in his heart. He got baptised and everything. It has been a wonderful journey since then.
Mind you, I do not recommend this path. It does not always end well. (example: my first marriage)
Just curious why you would think Christian men treat their wives horribly?
IME, some (but I know quite a few) Christian men like to only see half of what the Bible says about marriage. The half that talks to what the wife should be and do and totally ignore their own role and responsibility.
ETA: I'm not Cheerios, but I wanted to answer, lol
ETA: for example- they expect a their wife to be submissive to them, ignoring that the decisions they make are supposed to be based on the whole family's happiness and future success not just their own wants and whims.
-- Edited by NAOW on Thursday 3rd of November 2016 03:30:08 PM
-- Edited by NAOW on Thursday 3rd of November 2016 03:30:33 PM
I sort of expected it to be something like that but IMO those men are just azzholes & would still be azzholes regardless of religion. Basically using Christianity to support their azzholeness.
Just curious why you would think Christian men treat their wives horribly?
IME, some (but I know quite a few) Christian men like to only see half of what the Bible says about marriage. The half that talks to what the wife should be and do and totally ignore their own role and responsibility.
ETA: I'm not Cheerios, but I wanted to answer, lol
ETA: for example- they expect a their wife to be submissive to them, ignoring that the decisions they make are supposed to be based on the whole family's happiness and future success not just their own wants and whims.
-- Edited by NAOW on Thursday 3rd of November 2016 03:30:08 PM
-- Edited by NAOW on Thursday 3rd of November 2016 03:30:33 PM
a few ignore the part of where they are suppose to love their wife as Christ loves the Church which He laid down his life for His Church.
I married a Christian man and both my kids married Christians. My husband both loves me and respects me. Not all Christian men are ignorant about what the Scriptures say about husband and wife relationships.
I sort of expected it to be something like that but IMO those men are just azzholes & would still be azzholes regardless of religion. Basically using Christianity to support their azzholeness.
Yep.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
There is tons of instructions to both in the bible.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
