TOTALLY GEEKED!

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

seriously. can we do something about this now?

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

What do you suggest? Spend billions on addicts that 90% will die of an OD anyway? It is a horrible wart on society. I just don't get. it.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
What do you suggest? Spend billions on addicts that 90% will die of an OD anyway? It is a horrible wart on society. I just don't get. it.

I suggest treatment centers for those who want it. The 'homeless addicts with mental illness are told to wait 9 days' is SO. STUPID. I have addicted clients who are NOT homeless who are waiting over 6 months to get into a detox/treatment center. Why are we spending money on injection sites and mobile EMTs and multiple doses of Naloxone that are needed for just one person? My client's family had to drop a significant amount of money to have a Naloxone kit on hand for when they find their 19 year old daughter passed out somewhere.

She's been trying to get clean for a year but always goes back because the pull is so strong. It's going to be 'just one more time' that kills her. While she waits 6 months and the downtown addicts who have been there for years get detox in 9 days. I have heart for the people down there, but why are we spending so much?! The money could be used elsewhere. Not every recovered addict ODs.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Tignanello wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
What do you suggest? Spend billions on addicts that 90% will die of an OD anyway? It is a horrible wart on society. I just don't get. it.
I suggest treatment centers for those who want it. The 'homeless addicts with mental illness are told to wait 9 days' is SO. STUPID. I have addicted clients who are NOT homeless who are waiting over 6 months to get into a detox/treatment center. Why are we spending money on injection sites and mobile EMTs and multiple doses of Naloxone that are needed for just one person? My client's family had to drop a significant amount of money to have a Naloxone kit on hand for when they find their 19 year old daughter passed out somewhere.
She's been trying to get clean for a year but always goes back because the pull is so strong. It's going to be 'just one more time' that kills her. While she waits 6 months and the downtown addicts who have been there for years get detox in 9 days. I have heart for the people down there, but why are we spending so much?! The money could be used elsewhere. Not every recovered addict ODs.

35 years ago the liberals shut down the many treatment facilities we had here in this country. they were horrible, but they shut them down. They did not address the issues and so we have many homeless, addicts, and parents of mentally dysfunctional adult children that have no solutions.

Lindley · Guru

That is so sad tiganello, I hope she gets the help she needs before it is to late.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lindley wrote:
That is so sad tiganello, I hope she gets the help she needs before it is to late.

There is no help at the point someone asks for it. Always a waiting list. It is so sad.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

It is next to impossible to get help for the mentally ill all over the US. Even for kids.

Life is a nightmare for families trying to get help for an ill family member.

It's all about the money, or more like the lack of money.

If treatment could be gotten for the young at least, there would be far less problems in the future.

JMHO

I agree with you, Tig. It is a sad world indeed.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Firing squad for drug dealers?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Tignanello wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
What do you suggest? Spend billions on addicts that 90% will die of an OD anyway? It is a horrible wart on society. I just don't get. it.
I suggest treatment centers for those who want it. The 'homeless addicts with mental illness are told to wait 9 days' is SO. STUPID. I have addicted clients who are NOT homeless who are waiting over 6 months to get into a detox/treatment center. Why are we spending money on injection sites and mobile EMTs and multiple doses of Naloxone that are needed for just one person? My client's family had to drop a significant amount of money to have a Naloxone kit on hand for when they find their 19 year old daughter passed out somewhere.
She's been trying to get clean for a year but always goes back because the pull is so strong. It's going to be 'just one more time' that kills her. While she waits 6 months and the downtown addicts who have been there for years get detox in 9 days. I have heart for the people down there, but why are we spending so much?! The money could be used elsewhere. Not every recovered addict ODs.

This is the thing, Tig. What is society supposed to do? Keep paying over and over and over again for people who got help and then go back, and need it again?

It needs to be stopped at the source and it needs to be stopped young. By the time these people are homeless and on the streets, they don't care about getting treated, they care about getting their next high. And they have already lost everything, so what is the motivation to do better?

So you are right. This is a band-aid treatment for a gangrene wound. Early intervention could quite possibly have saved it.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

As cold as it sounds, these are the results of concious decisions.

These people make a choice each and every time they use.

Yes, it is terribly, sadly, horrible.

But actions have consequences.

You either learn from them and change, or die.

WYSIWYG · Guru

This is eminently sad. But drug overdose is the result of a specific decision to do the drugs in the first place. Poor choices rarely have positive outcomes.

Why can't they get treatment in Canada's socialized healthcare system? Isn't a drug addiction a healthcare issue?

Whenitrains · Member

It's their choice to do drugs. They od, get brought back, get medical treatment and go out and do it again. That money could be used to help people that really want to break the habit and stay clean.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

I feel terribly for these people. "Normal" people can't even kick a coffee habit and yet we expect drug addicts to kick a habit that's a thousand times more addicting?

So easy to say they make the decision to do it so they should just stop. That's the problem, they can't JUST STOP. So then the question is why did they start in the first place? Well at this point it's irrelevant right? What's done is done.

I don't know what the solution should be, but for God's sake have some compassion.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

And I agree with LL, it's the drug dealers that need to be purged.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Vette wrote:
I feel terribly for these people. "Normal" people can't even kick a coffee habit and yet we expect drug addicts to kick a habit that's a thousand times more addicting?

So easy to say they make the decision to do it so they should just stop. That's the problem, they can't JUST STOP. So then the question is why did they start in the first place? Well at this point it's irrelevant right? What's done is done.

I don't know what the solution should be, but for God's sake have some compassion.

Oh I have compassion. But you can't help someone who is so far gone. It is a horrible situation. One that we have almost no solutions for.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I can feel bad they do this to themselves.

But, yes, addiction can be overcome.

I quit smoking.

It was my life or another puff.

I choose every day not to smoke.

Every. Day.

It isn't always easy.

I dream about smoking.

But I make a concious choice NOT to smoke.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Look.

I'm not an expert. I know there are changes in the brain with addiction.

That's why it is physical work to break a habit.

I have to remove myself from certain situations because I want to smoke.

A person has to WORK at staying sober.

I think that is where people fail.

They don't want to have to do the work.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

I'm glad that you quit smoking lily but we are not all created equal. What one person can do another person can't.

Addiction is a mental illness. It's like me saying, you know what? I'm going to quit being bipolar. I'm just going to put in the effort and kick this thing. No. That just sounds stupid typing it out.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

No.

Not the same at all.

The mental condition of an addict is a direct result of their own, chosen, actions.

Being bipolar is not something you had a choice in.

Very few are born with addictions.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

lilyofcourse wrote:
No.

Not the same at all.

The mental condition of an addict is a direct result of their own, chosen, actions.

Being bipolar is not something you had a choice in.

Very few are born with addictions.

well, often the mental condition of a skid row addict is direct result of a mental illness. Schizophrenia, early dementia (late dementia), etc. However, those things are as treatable as addiction. And the reduction of one can often result in the reduction of the other. And just to be clear, I am NOT advocating the current treatment. When I say 'how many more have to die' what I mean is 'when will we stop wasting resources in skid row rather than focusing on a population who COULD be helped. I believe that the supervised injection sites (which are designed to make injecting hard drugs 'safer' by providing clean needles and supplies and immediate medical care if someone ODs) and the consistent use of Naloxone (addicts who take high doses require MANY administrations of Naloxone to save their lives and then they go do it again. While it feels crappy to say that someone deserves help more than someone else, I just can't justify spending that much money on skid row addicts. It's a total waste of resources.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

WYSIWYG wrote:
This is eminently sad. But drug overdose is the result of a specific decision to do the drugs in the first place. Poor choices rarely have positive outcomes.

Why can't they get treatment in Canada's socialized healthcare system? Isn't a drug addiction a healthcare issue?

Due to previous discussions regarding socialized and private healthcare on this board, there is a good possibility that the bolded is meant to be derisive. I will choose, however, to address it as a legitimate question.

Yes - they can get treatment. Like I said above - the detox wait for a skid row addict is 9 days. The wait for a long-term treatment center for anyone who isn't a chronic addict is over 6 months. There just isn't enough infrastructure to fight the recent upsurge in Fentanyl and Carfentanyl that is one the streets currently. Apparently there is no heroin left in this city. Carf & Fent are so much cheaper and more effective that there is no point on spending on anything else. It's also being cut into party drugs (X, etc) and marijuana is being laced with it. My client was even buying her methadone on the street (yes - available for free by prescription but she 'didn't want anyone to find out') and it was laced (of course. I can't imagine why she thought it wouldn't be).

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

lilyofcourse wrote:
No.

Not the same at all.

The mental condition of an addict is a direct result of their own, chosen, actions.

Being bipolar is not something you had a choice in.

Very few are born with addictions.

Forgot - as I recovered addict with bipolar disorder - I have learned that the addiction was meant to self-medicate the effects of undiagnosed bipolar disorder. As was the ED that had me hospitalized for 6 months. And another various things. Some to raise my mood when the depression took over, and some related to the impulsivity that comes with mania. It's taken over 8 years and multiple attempts to get medication right and me to stop trying to walk into traffic every other day.

Anyways, just trying to show the direct correlation of one to the other.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

Well I tried to post some links citing why addiction is considered a disease and mental illness but it marked them as spam. Shouldn't be too hard to search on your own though.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

So like I said, the mental illness is there from birth.

The addiction is a result of choices.

It really is a which came first question.

If the mental illness caused the addiction or if the addiction caused the mental illness?

Breaking an addiction takes a concious, intended choice.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Tignanello wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
This is eminently sad. But drug overdose is the result of a specific decision to do the drugs in the first place. Poor choices rarely have positive outcomes.

Why can't they get treatment in Canada's socialized healthcare system? Isn't a drug addiction a healthcare issue?
Due to previous discussions regarding socialized and private healthcare on this board, there is a good possibility that the bolded is meant to be derisive. I will choose, however, to address it as a legitimate question.
Yes - they can get treatment. Like I said above - the detox wait for a skid row addict is 9 days. The wait for a long-term treatment center for anyone who isn't a chronic addict is over 6 months. There just isn't enough infrastructure to fight the recent upsurge in Fentanyl and Carfentanyl that is one the streets currently. Apparently there is no heroin left in this city. Carf & Fent are so much cheaper and more effective that there is no point on spending on anything else. It's also being cut into party drugs (X, etc) and marijuana is being laced with it. My client was even buying her methadone on the street (yes - available for free by prescription but she 'didn't want anyone to find out') and it was laced (of course. I can't imagine why she thought it wouldn't be).

this is similar to most cities in the US. Although there is still plenty of Heroin. My state has upped the focus on finding and arresting dealers and setting bails in the hundreds of thousands so they can't make bail. Problem will be when the jails are full and no more can be accepted until others are released. There are deaths everyday from fentanyl and heroin in the city next to me as well as in my own town.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Due to previous discussions regarding socialized and private healthcare on this board, there is a good possibility that the bolded is meant to be derisive. I will choose, however, to address it as a legitimate question.

Yes - they can get treatment. Like I said above - the detox wait for a skid row addict is 9 days. The wait for a long-term treatment center for anyone who isn't a chronic addict is over 6 months. There just isn't enough infrastructure to fight the recent upsurge in Fentanyl and Carfentanyl that is one the streets currently. Apparently there is no heroin left in this city. Carf & Fent are so much cheaper and more effective that there is no point on spending on anything else. It's also being cut into party drugs (X, etc) and marijuana is being laced with it. My client was even buying her methadone on the street (yes - available for free by prescription but she 'didn't want anyone to find out') and it was laced (of course. I can't imagine why she thought it wouldn't be).
- Tignanello

________________________________

It actually was an honest question. No derisiveness was intended. I believe some things should be socialized. The United States has socialized police and fire. We should have socialized healthcare as well. Socialization of SOME services is not a foreign concept to us, so I don't understand some people's aversion to it.

Thank you for the answer and the choice to accept it as an legitimate question.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

lilyofcourse wrote:
So like I said, the mental illness is there from birth.

The addiction is a result of choices.

It really is a which came first question.

If the mental illness caused the addiction or if the addiction caused the mental illness?

Breaking an addiction takes a concious, intended choice.

How do you make a choice you don't know you even have?