TOTALLY GEEKED!

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

What is Christianity?

WYSIWYG · Guru

I thought we were specifically talking about Biblical errors. Knowing which parts are erroneous and which parts are true?
- Lady Gaga Snerd

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In my opinion, and in my beliefs of God, slavery is a Biblical error. God would not be condoning of it. The acceptance of slavery by the Bible is an erroneous part that's untrue.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

WYSIWYG wrote:
I thought we were specifically talking about Biblical errors. Knowing which parts are erroneous and which parts are true?
- Lady Gaga Snerd

___________________________

In my opinion, and in my beliefs of God, slavery is a Biblical error. God would not be condoning of it. The acceptance of slavery by the Bible is an erroneous part that's untrue.

Again. You do not understand the importance of slavery being in the Bible.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Reporting what was happening at the time and condoning it are 2 different things.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Again - slavery in the Bible was a necessity to keep people from starving to death. Even the "rich" didn't have stacks of money to pay people with. They had land and abundant food. People traded a life of servitude for the assurance of safety, food and shelter.

It was the way the world was and had to be at the time. Judging history by the standards of today is just flat out ridiculous.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Disagreeing with something in the Bible doesnt' make it "false".

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Nor does God doing something you don't like.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I mean, i read the Old Testament and it seems very harsh. It is harsh. How do you square that with a 'loving God". But, His ways are higher than our ways. And, the OT is an example of God's absolute Holiness and Justice and the real penalty that we deserve. It is a lesson to man and our utter helplessness and our need of Grace and Mercy.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Slavery, was also a way of depicting how God delivers us.

Take the Israel slaves.

God brought them out of slavery.

It took obedience and sacrifice on their part.

But He also provided them with everything they needed, and then some.

Slavery in the Bible is not to teach us to have slaves.

It is to teach us that if we trust and obey God, we will be set free.

Servants are there to teach us how to obey and how to treat others.

There isn't a single story in the Bible that doesn't teach us God's love, forgiveness, and, at times, the price for disobedience.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

God makes it clear that being a "servant" is the proper attitude for a Christian. We are ALL supposed to serve others.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Exactly.

WYSIWYG · Guru

You can say that if you like because you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. Because of the authority to take slaves, approved of in the Bible, I do not agree and never will.

In Leviticus 25:1 "The Lord said to Moses on Mount Sinai..." opening the door to Him saying in Leviticus 25:44 "Slaves, male or female, you may indeed possess, provided you buy them from neighboring nations.", and suggesting that God doesn't just bring his people out of slavery, he also tells them that it's okay for them to own them.

I'm sorry to all who think that "slaves" was merely a term for "servants", but you don't possess servants. You posses property, like slaves.

It's also impossible to say "Well, that was the Old Testament, Jesus got rid of all that", except that he didn't. The New Testament has many references on the proper way to treat slaves according to God (if the Bible is truly inerrant). If you don't have slaves, you don't need to know how to treat them now, do you?

Jesus' message was to love thy neighbor, and to treat all with respect and dignity. Enslaving people isn't doing either of those two things.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

You said it yourself, He gave instructions on how to treat slaves.

The sovereignty of God is absolute.

Just because you don't like or agree with something doesn't mean it isn't correct.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I think it very arrogant for man to think they know better than God.

burns07 · Guru

when speaking of slavery, whether biblically or otherwise, you need to consider the barbarity of the indigenous peoples in southern africa( or for that matter, parts of europe and asia as well)--the alternative to slavery was usually death--while life as a slave was surely not a preference for anyone, at least it extended the prospects for survival

WYSIWYG · Guru

You said it yourself, He gave instructions on how to treat slaves.
- lilyofcourse

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I said Leviticus 25:1 says that He said that. I didn't say that He said that. This was, in my opinion, one example of human bias being included in the Bible. I see it as the writer thinking "We like slavery of others, so we'll say that God said it was okay. No one will argue, because we'll say that God said it, and we'll put it among a bunch of other things that God said, and since this will be the accepted book of God's Word, we will be believed."

WYSIWYG · Guru

I think it very arrogant for man to think they know better than God.
- Lawyerlady

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I agree with this. I also believe that it's very arrogant of us as intelligent and logical beings to believe that man can perfectly capture the knowledge of God without error or human bias. Wouldn't that make us the equal of God Himself? Only perfection can perfectly recreate perfection.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

WYSIWYG wrote:
I think it very arrogant for man to think they know better than God.
- Lawyerlady

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I agree with this. I also believe that it's very arrogant of us as intelligent and logical beings to believe that man can perfectly capture the knowledge of God without error or human bias. Wouldn't that make us the equal of God Himself? Only perfection can perfectly recreate perfection.

The Bible is clear that those people were inspired by God. I believe in miracles and inspiration. Don't you?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

WYSIWYG wrote:
You said it yourself, He gave instructions on how to treat slaves.
- lilyofcourse

_________________________________

I said Leviticus 25:1 says that He said that. I didn't say that He said that. This was, in my opinion, one example of human bias being included in the Bible. I see it as the writer thinking "We like slavery of others, so we'll say that God said it was okay. No one will argue, because we'll say that God said it, and we'll put it among a bunch of other things that God said, and since this will be the accepted book of God's Word, we will be believed."

So, you think a man would give instructions on how to treat slaves with fairness and teach to be good to them?

But no way a God who gave His only Son to die for our sins would?

Do you understand the sheer ignorance of that?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Look.

All I know is, my God can do ANYTHING.

Including give man the words to put on paper for His children to follow.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
I think it very arrogant for man to think they know better than God.
- Lawyerlady

____________________________________

I agree with this. I also believe that it's very arrogant of us as intelligent and logical beings to believe that man can perfectly capture the knowledge of God without error or human bias. Wouldn't that make us the equal of God Himself? Only perfection can perfectly recreate perfection.

So, the God who created everything and all that is, just decided to leave Man to flounder around with a false Bible? But, if it is unreliable, then how are you believing any of it or how to determine which parts are true? Is there some magic we are missing where it will be clear to the rest of us what the actual truths of the Bible are?

Tinydancer · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
I think it very arrogant for man to think they know better than God.
- Lawyerlady

____________________________________

I agree with this. I also believe that it's very arrogant of us as intelligent and logical beings to believe that man can perfectly capture the knowledge of God without error or human bias. Wouldn't that make us the equal of God Himself? Only perfection can perfectly recreate perfection.
The Bible is clear that those people were inspired by God. I believe in miracles and inspiration. Don't you?

No. I think he's looking for an out. A reason to believe that certain things he doesn't agree with are not from God. Otherwise his stance on homosexuality and such would be unChristian. I guess you're not sinning if you blame those pesky passages that man wrote.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Tinydancer wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
I think it very arrogant for man to think they know better than God.
- Lawyerlady

____________________________________

I agree with this. I also believe that it's very arrogant of us as intelligent and logical beings to believe that man can perfectly capture the knowledge of God without error or human bias. Wouldn't that make us the equal of God Himself? Only perfection can perfectly recreate perfection.
The Bible is clear that those people were inspired by God. I believe in miracles and inspiration. Don't you?
No. I think he's looking for an out. A reason to believe that certain things he doesn't agree with are not from God. Otherwise his stance on homosexuality and such would be unChristian. I guess you're not sinning if you blame those pesky passages that man wrote.

That's most likely it, usually is.

WYSIWYG · Guru

The Bible is clear that those people were inspired by God. I believe in miracles and inspiration. Don't you?
- Lawyerlady

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I do believe in miracles and inspiration. I also believe in the fallibility and imperfection of man, and man's need to insert his wants and desires into things that will be remembered.

The Bible itself is one such miracle. But that doesn't mean that it must be inerrant. It can be both a miracle because it is the story of God and lets us know Him and Jesus. But, also, at the same time, it can full of errors because it was produced by fallible and imperfect men.

WYSIWYG · Guru

So, you think a man would give instructions on how to treat slaves with fairness and teach to be good to them?

But no way a God who gave His only Son to die for our sins would?
- lilyofcourse

______________________________

I think a man, wanting to make it seem Godly, would give those instructions, yes.

I think that a loving God that loves all of his children, even the ones that have strayed, would not approve of slavery. Not in any way. I think that a loving Jesus that protected the life of a sinning prostitute would not approve of slavery. Not in any way.

Man has free will however, and can enslave in spite of God's blessings or Jesus' teachings.

WYSIWYG · Guru

So, the God who created everything and all that is, just decided to leave Man to flounder around with a false Bible? But, if it is unreliable, then how are you believing any of it or how to determine which parts are true? Is there some magic we are missing where it will be clear to the rest of us what the actual truths of the Bible are?
- Lady Gaga Snerd

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Have you ever heard the acronym "WWJD"? Would Jesus have a slave? As far as what can be found in the Bible he never did that I am aware of.

I'd add in "WWGD" as well, to help answer your questions. Did God make Adam and Eve slaves, or did He give them free will? I think that that, right there, says how He feels about slavery more than anything else could. There is no free will in slavery.

Those two things are all that are necessary to discern what's Godly and what's manly in the Bible.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I think that inerrancy of the Bible is one of those subjects where it's likely best if both sides simply agree to disagree. Those of you that believe in an inerrant Bible are not likely to change the beliefs of those of us that disagree, and we are not likely to make you change your minds either.

So, I'm going to bow out of this discussion now.