TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lindley · Guru

RE: Wow. United Airlines reaches a new low in passenger mistreatment.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

Lindley, he would have gotten off the plane and taken the next flight, rather than embarrass someone.

He's a kind soul. smile

backpacker365 · Newbie

The airline states that the couple was REPEATEDLY told to return to their seats. To me that says the stewards tried to address the issue multiple times and the couple continually disobeyed. I realize this is an airline said/couple said issue. Only the people involved know what really happened.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

backpacker365 wrote:
The airline states that the couple was REPEATEDLY told to return to their seats. To me that says the stewards tried to address the issue multiple times and the couple continually disobeyed. I realize this is an airline said/couple said issue. Only the people involved know what really happened.

Where?

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
backpacker365 wrote:
The airline states that the couple was REPEATEDLY told to return to their seats. To me that says the stewards tried to address the issue multiple times and the couple continually disobeyed. I realize this is an airline said/couple said issue. Only the people involved know what really happened.
Where?

I heard the same thing on the news.

FNW · Guru

As I believe I have said, people don't just get dragged out of planes or asked to leave for no good reason.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

What the couple said is they assumed they were fine changing seats as long as they didn't try first class.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Well, it seems that people have had enough of United. You've got lots of people telling the horrible customer service stories, including -

After the family pitched in to buy their 94 year old disabled grandmother a seat in business class for her flight so she would be more comfortable since she suffers from severe arthritis, she was moved from business class to economy b/c they wouldn't allow her niece to come help her open her food, recline her seat and help her to the bathroom, and the flight attendants didn't want to help her. So, they moved the woman to economy to be closer to her niece. When they filed a formal complaint, United gave them a $500 travel voucher (which she won't use) and refunded only $860 of her $3,600 ticket price.

An Australian woman was handcuffed during the flight and made to sit in the back with air marshalls after her partner, whom she was arguing with, accused her of harassing her. She said it wasn't true and was found not guilty at the trial after the airline charged her. She is now suing United.

Furthermore - in reviewing aviation regulations, it appears United is citing the wrong rules. They can PREVENT a passenger from boarding because of over-booking under Rule 25, but the separate Rule 21 applies to removing a passenger from a plane and does not list that as a reason for removal. It does list about 2 dozen reasons, and needing to free up a seat ain't one of them. Furthermore, United did not do everything it could do prior to such removal. More - lawnewz.com/high-profile/united-cites-wrong-rule-for-illegally-de-boarding-passenger/
They are in trouble on this one. The contract of carriage does have protections for passengers built in.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
As I believe I have said, people don't just get dragged out of planes or asked to leave for no good reason.

Except on United.

Quite frankly, I can't even believe you can type that statement with a straight face. Dr. Dau was not doing ANYTHING when they told him to get off the plane, proving your statement false.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Wednesday 19th of April 2017 11:38:17 AM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
backpacker365 wrote:
The airline states that the couple was REPEATEDLY told to return to their seats. To me that says the stewards tried to address the issue multiple times and the couple continually disobeyed. I realize this is an airline said/couple said issue. Only the people involved know what really happened.
Where?

I heard the same thing on the news.

Every article I read, United says that they had asked to be upgraded repeatedly and told no - not that they were asked to return to their seats repeatedly. They have a different story, and since United is just trying to avoid PR nightmare stories at this point, I just flat out don't believe them.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

A witness account of what happened on flight where the doctor got dragged off -

The airline offered $400 and a free hotel, passenger Audra D. Bridges told the Louisville Courier-Journal. When no one volunteered, the offer was doubled to $800. When there were still no bites, the airline selected four passengers to leave the flight — including the man in the video and his wife.

"They told him he had been selected randomly to be taken off the flight," Bridges said on Facebook. She said there was no incident involving the man until he was told to give up his seat.

The man said he was a doctor and that he "needed to work at the hospital the next day," passenger Jayse D. Anspach said on Twitter.

"He said he wasn't going to [get off the plane]," Bridges wrote on Facebook. "He was talking to his lawyer on the phone."

Then United brought in security.

Follow
Jayse D. Anspach @JayseDavid
@United overbook #flight3411 and decided to force random passengers off the plane. Here's how they did it:
8:01 PM - 9 Apr 2017

170,637170,637 Retweets

150,918150,918 likes

Both Bridges and Anspach posted videos of three security officers, who appear to be wearing the uniforms of Chicago aviation police, wrenching the man out of his seat, prompting wails. His face appeared to strike an armrest. Then they dragged his limp body down the aisle.

Footage shows the man was bleeding from the mouth as they dragged him away. His glasses were askew and his shirt was riding up over his belly.

"It looked like he was knocked out, because he went limp and quiet and they dragged him out of the plane like a rag doll," Anspach wrote.

"10mins later, the doctor runs back into the plane with a bloody face, clings to a post in the back, chanting, 'I need to go home,' " he said.

"@united has everyone on this flight fully distressed and fearful!!" @JohnK tweeted. He later sent out an update: "Just asked to leave plane so they can clean up blood from passenger."

After the cleanup, the passengers were allowed to reboard and fly to Louisville.

The Courier-Journal spoke with Bridges about the troubled flight. She told the newspaper the plane was ultimately delayed about two hours, with no update to passengers about what happened to the injured man.

FNW · Guru

This would have been unnecessary if he had done what he was told.

Ohfour · Hooker

FNW wrote:
This would have been unnecessary if he had done what he was told.

They had no right to tell him to get off the plane. They cannot do that.

Let's say that you were going to a wedding/funeral/on the way to see a dying relative for the last time (possibly a child)...would you just get up and get off the plane?

I don't think so...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
This would have been unnecessary if he had done what he was told.

The point is that they never should have told him to get off the plane in the first place.

Even the president of United has apologized and said it was wrong.

FNW · Guru

I don't disagree they had no right to ask him to leave, but they did, and he refused. If you were stopped by the police and asked for your driver's license would you refuse, even if you had not broken the law or done anything to warrant the stop?

Ohfour · Hooker

FNW wrote:
I don't disagree they had no right to ask him to leave, but they did, and he refused. If you were stopped by the police and asked for your driver's license would you refuse, even if you had not broken the law or done anything to warrant the stop?

Absolutely. I've done it.

FNW · Guru

I guess I just figure not going to jail or keeping myself from getting physically hurt is more important than being right. I can prove I'm right later.

Ohfour · Hooker

FNW wrote:
I guess I just figure not going to jail or keeping myself from getting physically hurt is more important than being right. I can prove I'm right later.

They can't arrest you for doing nothing illegal.

FNW · Guru

But they can stop you for probable cause.

I suspect innocent people get arrested from time to time. Resisting compounds it.

Ohfour · Hooker

FNW wrote:
But they can stop you for probable cause.

I suspect innocent people get arrested from time to time. Resisting compounds it.

I was a passenger in a car that had a tail light out. After getting the drivers info, they asked for my ID. I refused. He tried to get ill with me, but I just kept telling him, no sir.

He had no right to ask for my ID. If he had arrested me, I would be wealthy right now.

United had no right to ask him to get off the plane. They drug him off. He is going to be EXTREMELY wealthy. If you don't follow the rules (he did, United did not) you are going to pay.

This is not his doing. It's theirs. They have owned up to it. And this will be settled out of court.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

FNW wrote:
I guess I just figure not going to jail or keeping myself from getting physically hurt is more important than being right. I can prove I'm right later.

My safety would be my #1 priority.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

He had no idea that he was going to get beat up. No one would know that.
Most people don't just blindly follow orders. That's just ridiculous...

FNW · Guru

I do when it comes to law enforcement. If they are wrong, I'll take it up later in court.

Ohfour · Hooker

FNW wrote:
I do when it comes to law enforcement. If they are wrong, I'll take it up later in court.

By then, you will be in the database. You will have a mug shot taken and fingerprinted. Those just don't go away. Nope. Not doing it...

FNW · Guru

Hopefully I'll never be in a position to have to make that decision! (So far, so good-LOL)

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Showing your license when pulled over is NOT getting a mug shot.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Showing your license when pulled over is NOT getting a mug shot.

flan

Right over your head... hmm

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
But they can stop you for probable cause.

I suspect innocent people get arrested from time to time. Resisting compounds it.

What you described was not probable cause. And they have no right to demand identification for no reason.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
He had no idea that he was going to get beat up. No one would know that.
Most people don't just blindly follow orders. That's just ridiculous...

And this is the crux. No way is that excessive force the proper response to a passenger refusing to "volunteer" their rightful seat on a plane.

FNW · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
But they can stop you for probable cause.

I suspect innocent people get arrested from time to time. Resisting compounds it.
What you described was not probable cause. And they have no right to demand identification for no reason.

I'm not arguing with that at all. I'm just saying I'd rather be physically in tact than right. I can prove I'm right later.

I understand that he bought and paid for his ticket. And for that, he is entitled to what he paid for, a seat on the plane. But that right is not unconditional.

I do not believe they had a good reason to ask him to deboard the plane. (Giving up his seat to extra flight crew who decided last minute to utilize this flight). Like it or not, airlines have the right to reschedule, cancel, re-route, etc. They also reserve the right to change or modify the terms of the contract with or without notice to ticketed passengers. The "small print" used to be written somewhere on their ticket (back when they used paper tickets) that says their liability is limited for delay or failure to provide service, etc. Now it's on their website.

While they have the right to remove passengers from their planes, it obviously wasn't good public relations to do so in this manner.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
But they can stop you for probable cause.

I suspect innocent people get arrested from time to time. Resisting compounds it.
What you described was not probable cause. And they have no right to demand identification for no reason.
I'm not arguing with that at all. I'm just saying I'd rather be physically in tact than right. I can prove I'm right later.
I understand that he bought and paid for his ticket. And for that, he is entitled to what he paid for, a seat on the plane. But that right is not unconditional.
I do not believe they had a good reason to ask him to deboard the plane. (Giving up his seat to extra flight crew who decided last minute to utilize this flight). Like it or not, airlines have the right to reschedule, cancel, re-route, etc. They also reserve the right to change or modify the terms of the contract with or without notice to ticketed passengers. The "small print" used to be written somewhere on their ticket (back when they used paper tickets) that says their liability is limited for delay or failure to provide service, etc. Now it's on their website.
While they have the right to remove passengers from their planes, it obviously wasn't good public relations to do so in this manner.

But the police would be in the wrong -not you. The same applies here. And we should not be afraid of being BEATEN UP by authorities for exercising our rights.

FNW · Guru

I agree, we shouldn't. But I'd rather not take a chance. To me, it's like keeping both your hands on the steering wheel when being stopped so the police know I'm not going to grab a gun.

Ohfour · Hooker

I refuse to give up my rights for threat of violence.

FNW · Guru

I felt that way, too, until I was beaten and raped by an ex-husband when I was 19. It made me want to avoid violence.

Honeys_Mom · Mod & Permanent Board Sweetheart

I'm really not much of a rebel, but.... I'm also firmly with the "I'm within my rights and I'm staying here" group. What the 'dragged doctor' did was, imho, admirable. While I'm sure he didn't expect those thugs to drag him off the plane, he stuck to what he believed was his right, i.e. keeping his paid-for seat.

He ended up shedding light on a subject that needed illumination. Our rights are slowly being eroded by a police-state mentality.

Edited - I didn't see FNW's post until after I posted. Understandable, and I think we all have to make the choice to pick our battles. I wonder if the doctor would do anything different if he had the chance for a do-over?

FNW · Guru

See, I don't see a police-state mentality. What I see is an uprising against law enforcement and rules. Sanctuary cities, BLM, riots.

Ohfour · Hooker

No, its not an uprising against rules, its letting them know that THEY are not above the law and xannot break it. I am currently suing the Cadiz Police Department for excessive force (I lost both front teeth). They are going to pay for my dental bills...

FNW · Guru

I remember that, ohfour, when you tripped or something?

I guess having had friends and family members as well as colleagues in LE, I understand the risks they put themselves in. I do agree that many go too far....when I am stopped, wrong or right, I try to put their minds at ease I will not hurt them.

Ohfour · Hooker

Yeah, I tried that...lost my teeth. Next time, i will lay down, but I will NOT do something I know is dangerous...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I have no idea why "putting an officer at ease" results in the loss of teeth.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Oh, and I'm not asking for the story.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

He had his gun pointed at me. He told me to come off the deck. It was pitch dark, only his flashlight. He made me come down the steps, with my hands laced behind my head...15 steps. I have a bad foot. I told him that and he said "I will not ask again". I started down the steps, missed one and faceplanted. Lost both front teeth.

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Oh, and I'm not asking for the story.

flan

Of course not, because you want to remain ignorant. Too bad. I posted it again anyway.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I figured it was none of my business.

Okay then, why was he at your house?

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

They got a domestic violence call. Showed up at the wrong house...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

But, if you had not obeyed him, it likely would have been worse.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

In any case, I'm sorry you had to go through that.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

Thabk you...i mean that...

FNW · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
He had his gun pointed at me. He told me to come off the deck. It was pitch dark, only his flashlight. He made me come down the steps, with my hands laced behind my head...15 steps. I have a bad foot. I told him that and he said "I will not ask again". I started down the steps, missed one and faceplanted. Lost both front teeth.

Right, I remember that. Horrible! I hope they found the right house. I'd hate to think of the poor victim whose call went unanswered.

Ohfour · Hooker

FNW wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
He had his gun pointed at me. He told me to come off the deck. It was pitch dark, only his flashlight. He made me come down the steps, with my hands laced behind my head...15 steps. I have a bad foot. I told him that and he said "I will not ask again". I started down the steps, missed one and faceplanted. Lost both front teeth.
Right, I remember that. Horrible! I hope they found the right house. I'd hate to think of the poor victim whose call went unanswered.

Trust me...I hoped so too. But they tore out after searching my house and saw me pouring blood from my mouth. I have no doubt they didn't investigate further. That's part of the lawsuit.