TOTALLY GEEKED!

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Verdict on Texting suicide case

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I don't think that's the right verdict.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I don't either.

It wasn't like she was standing in front of him and forcing him.

This is a bad precedent.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
I don't think that's the right verdict.

So it is ripe for successful appeal. First, you need to read the text messages she sent him. One was when he was doing it and got out of the car because it was starting to work. He got out and texted her that he was scared because it was working and she told him to get back in the car and do it. Then she texted a friend after that and said "I am responsible for his death, I told him to get back in the car".

Second: But the judge used a case from Worcester Ma (HI Trudy) about a fire in an abandoned building where two homeless people were known to live. 6 firefighters died in that fire trying to save the couple, the homeless couple inadvertently started the fire and ran from the building but didn't call for help even though they had a cell phone. They were tried for invol manslaughter and were acquitted on appeal. So not sure why the judge used that guilty verdict in the original trial as precedence.

Ohfour · Hooker

I have mixed feelings. He was mentally ill. She all but controlled him. She knew what she was doing.

karl271 · Guru

Yes, Ohfour, exactly this.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

I have mixed feelings.

I'll have to wait for the sentence.

She could get anything from probation...up to 20 years.

My gut feeling is, she won't do any time.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Fort Worth Mom wrote:
I have mixed feelings.
I'll have to wait for the sentence.
She could get anything from probation...up to 20 years.
My gut feeling is, she won't do any time.

I think she will do at least one year. This is Juvie and I think the judge will sentence her the max but with time off for good behavior, probably tell her if she attends college classes and therapy in that year year her sentence will be commuted.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
I have mixed feelings. He was mentally ill. She all but controlled him. She knew what she was doing.

She was mentally ill as well, and on medication with side effects that affected her emotion and ability to empathize.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

I think she should go to a mental institution.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

What's next, you get in an argument with someone and tell them to drop dead, and they have a heart attack b/c they are so upset? No. He took his own life.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
What's next, you get in an argument with someone and tell them to drop dead, and they have a heart attack b/c they are so upset? No. He took his own life.

Exactly

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
I don't think that's the right verdict.

I dont either but that is how some of these things bwcome law.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

It's a common response to a chronically suicidal individual. Make a choice, already! Live or die, just pick one and stick with it. Stop jerking yourself around. It sounds like she said some of that (her text ends with ... he'd just do it again tomorrow, or some such). Sounds like he picked.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Tignanello wrote:
It's a common response to a chronically suicidal individual. Make a choice, already! Live or die, just pick one and stick with it. Stop jerking yourself around. It sounds like she said some of that (her text ends with ... he'd just do it again tomorrow, or some such). Sounds like he picked.

Yep, that is exactly what her response was to his repeated threats of suicide. Her text messages are disturbing to say the least, but I think the two of them were so wrapped up in the suicide discussion they lost site of real life.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

She's a seriously disturbed whackadoodle. But he had issues too.

WYSIWYG · Guru

This is a bad precedent- and a bad ruling.

Forever Sunshine · Guru

Tignanello wrote:
It's a common response to a chronically suicidal individual. Make a choice, already! Live or die, just pick one and stick with it. Stop jerking yourself around. It sounds like she said some of that (her text ends with ... he'd just do it again tomorrow, or some such). Sounds like he picked.

This should absolutely NEVER be a "common response" to anyone voicing the desire to commit suicide, once or chronically. NEVER! Are we really this desensitized?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Forever Sunshine wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
It's a common response to a chronically suicidal individual. Make a choice, already! Live or die, just pick one and stick with it. Stop jerking yourself around. It sounds like she said some of that (her text ends with ... he'd just do it again tomorrow, or some such). Sounds like he picked.
This should absolutely NEVER be a "common response" to anyone voicing the desire to commit suicide, once or chronically. NEVER! Are we really this desensitized?

It can be if a person is using threats of suicide to emotionally blackmail and manipulate people. Of course - my reaction is to call an ambulance and the police. Lock them away on a 72 hour hold should get the wheels started for the help they need, or call their damn bluff.

Lindley · Guru

Forever Sunshine wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
It's a common response to a chronically suicidal individual. Make a choice, already! Live or die, just pick one and stick with it. Stop jerking yourself around. It sounds like she said some of that (her text ends with ... he'd just do it again tomorrow, or some such). Sounds like he picked.
This should absolutely NEVER be a "common response" to anyone voicing the desire to commit suicide, once or chronically. NEVER! Are we really this desensitized?

I agree with Cheerios, I do understand where tig is coming from, but this girl should have call 911.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

This girl was a teen herself, on anti-depressants. Why is she held to a higher standard than he is himself?

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Forever Sunshine wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
It's a common response to a chronically suicidal individual. Make a choice, already! Live or die, just pick one and stick with it. Stop jerking yourself around. It sounds like she said some of that (her text ends with ... he'd just do it again tomorrow, or some such). Sounds like he picked.
This should absolutely NEVER be a "common response" to anyone voicing the desire to commit suicide, once or chronically. NEVER! Are we really this desensitized?
It can be if a person is using threats of suicide to emotionally blackmail and manipulate people. Of course - my reaction is to call an ambulance and the police. Lock them away on a 72 hour hold should get the wheels started for the help they need, or call their damn bluff.

It's not desensitization; it probably comes from a place of long-term push and pull and 'it will be your fault if I ....' that goes on and causes so much pain and distress for others that it needs to be stopped. Calling the bluff is often the way to stop the manipulation. It happens more than you know. I won't say that I know that that is what this girl is coming from, as it doesn't seem to come from a place of frustration with a loved one, so much as it does torment. But, calling the bluff happens more than you know.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

I actually think it was the right verdict because when he got out of the car she told him to get back in. She could have talked him out of it but instead consciously talked him back into it. There was intent there. She is a nasty piece of work. That & in every picture from court she had a smirk on her face. There was no remorse.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
This girl was a teen herself, on anti-depressants. Why is she held to a higher standard than he is himself?

Possibly because HE didn't badger HER to kill herself...

flan

Mary Zombie · Guru

Tignanello wrote:
It's a common response to a chronically suicidal individual. Make a choice, already! Live or die, just pick one and stick with it. Stop jerking yourself around. It sounds like she said some of that (her text ends with ... he'd just do it again tomorrow, or some such). Sounds like he picked.

I thought this too. Not that I think it was a good thing to do. But her being mentally ill as Well, I can imagine Being worn down from constant talk of suicide.

I disagree with the verdict.

-- Edited by Mary Zombie on Monday 19th of June 2017 08:53:42 AM

Mary Zombie · Guru

I had a friend who constantly threatened suicide as emotional blackmail. Thank God she is much better now but it was wearing on me.

msrock · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
I actually think it was the right verdict because when he got out of the car she told him to get back in. She could have talked him out of it but instead consciously talked him back into it. There was intent there. She is a nasty piece of work. That & in every picture from court she had a smirk on her face. There was no remorse.

I totally agree. She was getting something out of his death and that was attention. She could have reached out to his family or law enforcement if she really cared about him living. If not for her, I believe he would be alive today.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

msrock wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
I actually think it was the right verdict because when he got out of the car she told him to get back in. She could have talked him out of it but instead consciously talked him back into it. There was intent there. She is a nasty piece of work. That & in every picture from court she had a smirk on her face. There was no remorse.
I totally agree. She was getting something out of his death and that was attention. She could have reached out to his family or law enforcement if she really cared about him living. If not for her, I believe he would be alive today.

I disagree with the bolded; he would have survived that night, but then tried again.

Lindley · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
msrock wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
I actually think it was the right verdict because when he got out of the car she told him to get back in. She could have talked him out of it but instead consciously talked him back into it. There was intent there. She is a nasty piece of work. That & in every picture from court she had a smirk on her face. There was no remorse.
I totally agree. She was getting something out of his death and that was attention. She could have reached out to his family or law enforcement if she really cared about him living. If not for her, I believe he would be alive today.
I disagree with the bolded; he would have survived that night, but then tried again.

We don't know if he would succeed the next time. He might have gotten the help he needed if she had called 911.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I agree, Lindley.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
This girl was a teen herself, on anti-depressants. Why is she held to a higher standard than he is himself?
Possibly because HE didn't badger HER to kill herself...
flan

Words don't kill people. He made the decision that took his life. And you don't know that her calling 911 would have saved him, at all.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
This girl was a teen herself, on anti-depressants. Why is she held to a higher standard than he is himself?
Possibly because HE didn't badger HER to kill herself...
flan
Words don't kill people. He made the decision that took his life. And you don't know that her calling 911 would have saved him, at all.

And she bragged that SHE was responsible. She was playing a sick, twisted game.

Calling 911 would have given him a CHANCE.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
I actually think it was the right verdict because when he got out of the car she told him to get back in. She could have talked him out of it but instead consciously talked him back into it. There was intent there. She is a nasty piece of work. That & in every picture from court she had a smirk on her face. There was no remorse.

I think that was the biggest factor. The other talk was talk. However, when she was actively involved while he was in the act and encouraged him to get back into the car knowing that had rigged the car to cause death, that really does take it to a whole other level.

Lindley · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
This girl was a teen herself, on anti-depressants. Why is she held to a higher standard than he is himself?
Possibly because HE didn't badger HER to kill herself...
flan
Words don't kill people. He made the decision that took his life. And you don't know that her calling 911 would have saved him, at all.

At least she would have tried. He was sick and not thinking rationally. Yes we don't know if calling 911 would have saved him, but we dont know if it wouldn't have saved him either.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lindley wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
This girl was a teen herself, on anti-depressants. Why is she held to a higher standard than he is himself?
Possibly because HE didn't badger HER to kill herself...
flan
Words don't kill people. He made the decision that took his life. And you don't know that her calling 911 would have saved him, at all.
At least she would have tried. He was sick and not thinking rationally. Yes we don't know if calling 911 would have saved him, but we dont know if it wouldn't have saved him either.

So, bad people are just guilty. There are a whole lot more people that should be in jail, then.

The slippery slope on this is terrible.

I think this will be overturned on appeal.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Question:

If your spouse has a heart attack and you don't call 911, are you responsible?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

That's a good question. I don't really know the answer to that.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Question:

If your spouse has a heart attack and you don't call 911, are you responsible?

flan

That is different. A spouse has a special relationship with the person AND a heart attack is not the purposeful action of another that they themselves could prevent. That is the difference. That boy could have prevented his own suicide by not taking his life. She does not have a higher duty than he does.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

She isn't a spouse so that is a completely different situation. But, that is a good question by flan.
However, she had issues as well so why do his issues trump her issues. I do think her telling him Get Back in at the point where there was a toxic environment is really the crux of the issue.
If she handed him a loaded gun and told him it was loaded and told him to shoot himself and he did would she be liable for that? This is a very tricky case.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
She isn't a spouse so that is a completely different situation. But, that is a good question by flan.
However, she had issues as well so why do his issues trump her issues. I do think her telling him Get Back in at the point where there was a toxic environment is really the crux of the issue.
If she handed him a loaded gun and told him it was loaded and told him to shoot himself and he did would she be liable for that? This is a very tricky case.

Not only is she not a spouse, she wasn't even physically present. We can not let electronic communication come inbetween logic of law.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Ultimately the choice to end his life was on him. He had any number of options. He could have called his family, 911, the police, etc. He could have hung up on her and walked away. He had other options to save himself.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
This girl was a teen herself, on anti-depressants. Why is she held to a higher standard than he is himself?
Possibly because HE didn't badger HER to kill herself...
flan
Words don't kill people. He made the decision that took his life. And you don't know that her calling 911 would have saved him, at all.
And she bragged that SHE was responsible. She was playing a sick, twisted game.
Calling 911 would have given him a CHANCE.
flan

She did not brag. When reality dawned on her she admitted she was responsible.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Question:

If your spouse has a heart attack and you don't call 911, are you responsible?

flan
That is different. A spouse has a special relationship with the person AND a heart attack is not the purposeful action of another that they themselves could prevent. That is the difference. That boy could have prevented his own suicide by not taking his life. She does not have a higher duty than he does.

Why? Because of a piece of paper? Substitute neighbor, then.

To me, it's about taking responsibility as a human being.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
This girl was a teen herself, on anti-depressants. Why is she held to a higher standard than he is himself?
Possibly because HE didn't badger HER to kill herself...
flan
Words don't kill people. He made the decision that took his life. And you don't know that her calling 911 would have saved him, at all.
And she bragged that SHE was responsible. She was playing a sick, twisted game.
Calling 911 would have given him a CHANCE.
flan
She did not brag. When reality dawned on her she admitted she was responsible.

How do you know what she was feeling?

Why was she surprised by the verdict?

flan

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

flan327 wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
This girl was a teen herself, on anti-depressants. Why is she held to a higher standard than he is himself?
Possibly because HE didn't badger HER to kill herself...
flan
Words don't kill people. He made the decision that took his life. And you don't know that her calling 911 would have saved him, at all.
And she bragged that SHE was responsible. She was playing a sick, twisted game.
Calling 911 would have given him a CHANCE.
flan
She did not brag. When reality dawned on her she admitted she was responsible.
How do you know what she was feeling?
Why was she surprised by the verdict?
flan

This happened near me, we have been inundated with the facts for two years. That is how.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Thank you.

Hopefully the "facts" are accurate.

flan

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

flan327 wrote:
Thank you.

Hopefully the "facts" are accurate.

flan

Flan, I don't get you. Why are you being so mean? This is not a win situation for either party. This girl had mental issues as did the boy.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

IKWTD makes a good point. She was just as sick as he was. They fed off each other in the worst way.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Thank you.

Hopefully the "facts" are accurate.

flan
Flan, I don't get you. Why are you being so mean? This is not a win situation for either party. This girl had mental issues as did the boy.

"...mean?"

I'm frustrated because the majority here seems to think the girl was innocent of anything and everything.

flan

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

No Flan, no on thinks she is innocent. But lets move on to the law thing as that is what we are discussing. The girl is a ice cold hearted individual . She broke no laws but we all agree she is a fkin screwed up bitch.