TOTALLY GEEKED!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Verdict on Texting suicide case

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

That's true. And with technology, that is a whole new developing area. I agree, she ACTIVELY participated in his suicide. But, ultimately, he got back in the car. So, you can say he "changed his mind" but if he apparently changed it back by getting in the car. I thought you supported the mentally and emotionally anguished making a decision to take their own lives?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Question:

If your spouse has a heart attack and you don't call 911, are you responsible?

flan
That is different. A spouse has a special relationship with the person AND a heart attack is not the purposeful action of another that they themselves could prevent. That is the difference. That boy could have prevented his own suicide by not taking his life. She does not have a higher duty than he does.
Why? Because of a piece of paper? Substitute neighbor, then.
To me, it's about taking responsibility as a human being.
flan

That's an ethical and moral question - not a legal one.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And if she's responsible, then his parents are MORE responsible, because they had a duty to care for him, and they obviously didn't get him the help he needed.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I seem to remember a thread about the Chinese folks watching someone get hit by a car and now they were all shameful for not trying to help. This is no different. She wasn't physically present, but she was aware of what was happening and had an obligation to try and get him help. Instead she pushed him back into the car.

If she was standing on a bridge and convinced someone to jump instead of calling for help what would say them? If he had a gun pointed at his head and she said "shoot your self no one will care" is that criminal? I happen to think she had a responsibility to hang up the phone and call for help. Failure to do that is negligence.

She is a psychopath and she needs help. Jail won't do her any good but neither will a hospital because psychopaths can't be rehabilitated.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
I seem to remember a thread about the Chinese folks watching someone get hit by a car and now they were all shameful for not trying to help. This is no different. She wasn't physically present, but she was aware of what was happening and had an obligation to try and get him help. Instead she pushed him back into the car.

If she was standing on a bridge and convinced someone to jump instead of calling for help what would say them? If he had a gun pointed at his head and she said "shoot your self no one will care" is that criminal? I happen to think she had a responsibility to hang up the phone and call for help. Failure to do that is negligence.

She is a psychopath and she needs help. Jail won't do her any good but neither will a hospital because psychopaths can't be rehabilitated.

Being morally bankrupt is not in and of itself a crime. Was what she did wrong? Of course. But she didn't kill him.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

She did assist him. Of all of the cases like this, this is the worst. And seems like aiding and abetting or being an accomplice. However suicide is not a crime so i dont know.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Being there, seeing the situation is one thing.

Texting is another.

How did she, a mentally unstable person, know he was being serious?

I don't know.

Sounds to me like she may be held responsible in a civil suit, but I don't see her actions as criminal.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
She did assist him. Of all of the cases like this, this is the worst. And seems like aiding and abetting or being an accomplice. However suicide is not a crime so i dont know.

Assist him? How?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

This is the worst case of blame game out there. HE took his own life. HIS actions. HIS choice. HE is the one responsible.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

No. No. Just NO.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
No. No. Just NO.

flan

Yes. Yes. Just YES. HE DID IT.

I watched someone do this once. They begged and pleaded for my friend to take them back. Called her constantly, threatened suicide if she didn't take him back. The worst sort of thing. Her parents told his parents. She told him to stop calling, she never wanted to speak to him again. He shot himself. It WRECKED her. And it was not her fault.

People who take their own lives make the ultimate decision.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Actually she DID break the law. A quick google search shows that Massachusetts has a "duty to rescue" law which says that one has a duty to at least notify law enforcement if someone is in peril. A dozen states have such a law on the books. Go to wikepedia and look up duty to rescue.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

How many times had he already threatened this?

After a while, it's the boy crying wolf.

And she is mentally ill as well.

She doesn't understand the gravity of the situation.

She is just as messed up as he was.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Actually she DID break the law. A quick google search shows that Massachusetts has a "duty to rescue" law which says that one has a duty to at least notify law enforcement if someone is in peril. A dozen states have such a law on the books. Go to wikepedia and look up duty to rescue.

Actually, unlike several other states, Massachusetts has no law against encouraging suicide.

But what everyone likes to ignore, while blaming this girl, is that she, too, was mentally ill. She had an eating disorder, had been in a psychiatric facility and was on antidepressants with multiple side effects.

If he isn't responsible because of mental illness, neither is she.

But most of these social justice cases get thrown out on appeal.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

They don't have a law against encouraging suicide but hey DO have a law stating that one must call the authorities if someone is in peril. He was in peril. She should have called for help according to the law. If she wanted to use her mental illness she should have pled not guilty by reason of mental impairment. She did not.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

So again, it's someone else's fault.

Let's make sure that there is absolutely no responsibility put on the boy's shoulders at all.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Mellow Momma wrote:
They don't have a law against encouraging suicide but hey DO have a law stating that one must call the authorities if someone is in peril. He was in peril. She should have called for help according to the law. If she wanted to use her mental illness she should have pled not guilty by reason of mental impairment. She did not.

She was underage at the time, I highly doubt that law applies to minors. And at any rate, not helping someone in danger is not manslaughter.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

This was a juvenile court judge that made the decision. She wasn't even given a jury of her peers. It's a bad verdict. I'm confident it will be thrown out it they appeal.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
They don't have a law against encouraging suicide but hey DO have a law stating that one must call the authorities if someone is in peril. He was in peril. She should have called for help according to the law. If she wanted to use her mental illness she should have pled not guilty by reason of mental impairment. She did not.

Exactly.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
So again, it's someone else's fault.

Let's make sure that there is absolutely no responsibility put on the boy's shoulders at all.

He's dead. Should we put him in jail as well?

She shares responsibility.

flan

Forever Sunshine · Guru

At one time, in every state, suicide was considered a criminal act, a felony . . . murder against one's self. Not so any more. Starting in the late 60s through the early 90s, almost all states have revised their stance on this. However, attempted suicide is still considered a criminal act but most prosecutors don't prosecute.

Unfortunately, I've had several people in my life commit suicide. Sometimes, no matter how much help one receives, it's still not enough to curtail the anguish and despair some feel. Sometimes, there is just nothing one can do because those who are truly suicidal will find a way sooner or later.

LL is right in all this. What you all are discussing here is the moral obligation, not a legal one, on the girl's part. Was she wrong to encourage him? Absofrickinlutely! Was she wrong in not calling for help? Absofrickinlutely. But, it wasn't criminal on her part.

msrock · Guru

Well I think it was criminal and the judge agrees with me.

If that was my son, I just can't even imagine what this would do to me, knowing what this person did and didn't do. I don't think I could bare it.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

msrock wrote:
Well I think it was criminal and the judge agrees with me.

If that was my son, I just can't even imagine what this would do to me, knowing what this person did and didn't do. I don't think I could bare it.

Well, apparently this kid had been suicidal for a long time. So if you were his parent, you should have gotten him some damn help.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
msrock wrote:
Well I think it was criminal and the judge agrees with me.

If that was my son, I just can't even imagine what this would do to me, knowing what this person did and didn't do. I don't think I could bare it.
Well, apparently this kid had been suicidal for a long time. So if you were his parent, you should have gotten him some damn help.

I agree that the parents were partially responsible.

I don't know enough about his home situation. Some kids are good at acting "normal."

flan

FNW · Guru

My BFF lost a son to suicide. He had been hearing voices in his head, he told her. He had just started a new job and the insurance wouldn't kick in right away, and he was a week away from an appointment with a psychologist. I don't think a day goes by she doesn't kick herself for fronting the money and getting him in sooner. But how was she to know he would soon jump off the Colorado Street bridge?

Hindsight is great, but who's to say his parents knew of his struggle.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

FNW wrote:
My BFF lost a son to suicide. He had been hearing voices in his head, he told her. He had just started a new job and the insurance wouldn't kick in right away, and he was a week away from an appointment with a psychologist. I don't think a day goes by she doesn't kick herself for fronting the money and getting him in sooner. But how was she to know he would soon jump off the Colorado Street bridge?

Hindsight is great, but who's to say his parents knew of his struggle.

There is also the possibility that they KNEW and chose to ignore it.

flan

FNW · Guru

True. Or didn't take him seriously.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

FNW wrote:
True. Or didn't take him seriously.

DH's ex refused to get help for their daughter.

So sad.

flan

FNW · Guru

Horribly sad. I'm sorry he (and you) have had to go through that.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

She's 36 now, and worked through a lot of issues, but when your child pulls the stunts that she did, they are crying for help.

I'm guessing the ex thought it would reflect badly on HER...

flan

Mary Zombie · Guru

A local cardiologist who used to be In our group commuted suicide recently by jumping off a roof.
He was always a little nuts but a good doctor. But he apparently went off the reservation when he quit after our company merged and he was at the VA for a while.
Just so senseless.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
This was a juvenile court judge that made the decision. She wasn't even given a jury of her peers. It's a bad verdict. I'm confident it will be thrown out it they appeal.

She chose not to have a jury, the judge didn't decide that.

burns07 · Guru

the verdict is simply wrong--though what the girl did would be considered immoral by many, she still did nothing criminal--lord, consider what a lot of " rational " people post on facebook/twitter, etc.--mild by comparison--even narrowing the scope to this one incident, she still did nothing criminal--the boy acted alone and of his own volition to kill himself--he is responsible for his death, not her

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

burns07 wrote:

the verdict is simply wrong--though what the girl did would be considered immoral by many, she still did nothing criminal--lord, consider what a lot of " rational " people post on facebook/twitter, etc.--mild by comparison--even narrowing the scope to this one incident, she still did nothing criminal--the boy acted alone and of his own volition to kill himself--he is responsible for his death, not her

Did you perhaps FORGET that this was her boyfriend?

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I think maybe the judge gave this sentence for sole purpose of appeal.

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

the verdict is simply wrong--though what the girl did would be considered immoral by many, she still did nothing criminal--lord, consider what a lot of " rational " people post on facebook/twitter, etc.--mild by comparison--even narrowing the scope to this one incident, she still did nothing criminal--the boy acted alone and of his own volition to kill himself--he is responsible for his death, not her
Did you perhaps FORGET that this was her boyfriend?
flan

I don't see how that makes any difference at all.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:

the verdict is simply wrong--though what the girl did would be considered immoral by many, she still did nothing criminal--lord, consider what a lot of " rational " people post on facebook/twitter, etc.--mild by comparison--even narrowing the scope to this one incident, she still did nothing criminal--the boy acted alone and of his own volition to kill himself--he is responsible for his death, not her
Did you perhaps FORGET that this was her boyfriend?
flan

That has no standing whatsoever. Not the same thing as a married SPOUSE.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Far different than a STRANGER, though.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

It's a teen romance. Doesn't mean much. That isn't family flan. But, i have said over and over she is a horrible person. And, if they had committed a murder and she was that involved in the planning and execution of it, she would absolutely be liable. I do agree that actively participated in the planning and told him to get back in when she knew he had rigged the car. So, I think there should be some charge for that. Not sure that would be though. However, he choose to get back in.

FNW · Guru

If suicide were still a crime, I would think she could be charged with conspiracy. Of course, if charged with conspiracy, they are also charged with the underlying crime as well.

It's a tough one.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Well, Dr. Kevorkian avoided prosecution for years by simply providing the means to commit suicide and not actually physically helping with the final act. It wasn't until he actually injected a patient because they were unable to do so that he was tried and convicted.

FNW · Guru

Now that's a name I haven't heard in awhile.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Michelle Carter sentenced to prison, but will remain free pending appeal
Bob McGovern Thursday, August 03, 2017

Credit: Matt West

With her defense attorney Joseph Cataldo at left, Michelle Carter listens to her sentencing for involuntary manslaughter for encouraging 18-year-old Conrad Roy III to kill himself in July 2014. Thursday, August 3, 2017. Staff Photo by Matt West

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COMMENTS

Michelle Carter Sentenced To 2.5 Years
CBS Boston

TAUNTON - Michelle Carter was sentenced to prison today by a judge who will allow her to remain free pending her appeal, in a case that won national notoriety after she convinced her high school boyfriend to kill himself through a series of texts and phone calls.

Judge Lawrence Moniz, who presided over the blockbuster trial, sentenced Carter to 2.5 years in state prison, ordering her to serve 15 months and suspending the balance to Aug. 1, 2022, if she does not violate the terms of her probation. However, Moniz agreed to a defense request to stay the sentence pending her appeals through the state court system.

www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2017/08/michelle_carter_sentenced_to_prison_but_will_remain_free_pending_appeal

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Doesn't sound like the judge agreed with the verdict, either.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Doesn't sound like the judge agreed with the verdict, either.

He gave the verdict. She waved her right to a jury trial.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Oh. Well. She was tried as a juvenile, though. So 2.5 years would put her at 21.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Oh. Well. She was tried as a juvenile, though. So 2.5 years would put her at 21.

She is 20 now. Sentence is for 15 months in jail. They are appealing, which I think is a mistake. But she was mentally ill as was he and they actually only met in person 3 times. Most of their relationship was on social media.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I don't think she should have been charged, let alone found guilty. I think she'll win on appeal.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
I don't think she should have been charged, let alone found guilty. I think she'll win on appeal.

I agree with that. But it draws out long into her life. Serving the 15 months will give her closer sooner and she won't have to deal with the emotional crap during the appeal.