Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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First of all, before I jump on the bandwagon, i would really like to hear the details. When there is a flood coming, every home, business, etc is going to batten down the hatches and get things situated to ride out the flood. I would assume that they don't routinely leave the doors unlocked to this.
During a flood, everyone should STAY HOME. So, no, nobody is going to run down to the church and fling open the doors. That expectation is simply silly. And, you don't interfere with authorities during a rescue. Nor is there any playbook to a natural disaster.
Furthermore, was anyone harmed by this being unavaliable? I think the expectation is just the media trying to make some ado like always.
And, the effects of this flood are going to last for days, weeks, months, years. Once the waters recede, i would expect the church to step up and render aid and assistance. Which is of course what they should do. So, frankly this all seems pretty premature and someone looking for a bone to pick.

As for Osteen I am not a fan of his happy happy happy health and wealth gospel. Some of what he says is false teaching in my opinion.

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 I agree with all this.  I don't know the details.  Perhaps there is some reasons why it is not possible to open the church.

Actually, his church area was not flooded at all, the streets were clear, etc. By the pictures surrounding that building, you wouldn't even know there was a problem.

But, he finally opened it today after days of criticism and nothing but tweets about praying for you, and making a statement of support telling people they can donate to his church for hurricane relief. On Monday -

“Jesus promises us peace that passes understanding,” he wrote. “That’s peace when it doesn’t make sense.”


And if he was PLANNING to open his church and waiting for clearance, guidance, etc., he could have easily made a statement to that effect. He made lots of other statements that did nothing.

He claimed the church was closed because of flooding, but pictures now show us that was not true. He also said the church was inaccessible, but his security and some of the staffers were there on Monday. And the people that didn't believe him had no problem getting over there to fill the bone dry church.

These are pictures posted around noon on Monday -

He has opened his doors at this point because he was SHAMED into it, and it was becoming a PR nightmare.  

Televangelist Joel Osteen canceled Sunday services at his Houston megachurch but was reluctant to reopen its doors to Harvey victims — despite the fact that thousands of flooded-out residents are desperately seeking shelter.

The perpetually smiling pastor told followers on Twitter on Monday to lean on their faith.

“Jesus promises us peace that passes understanding,” he wrote. “That’s peace when it doesn’t make sense.”

He later tweeted a message seeking flood-relief donations to his church.

But Osteen’s comforting words didn’t sit well with critics, who wanted to know why the doors to the 16,800-seat arena at his Lakewood Church near downtown Houston are closed.

“You have taken so much money away from your people to live like a king,” entertainment publicist Danny Deraney blasted. “It’s the least you could do.”

Ministry spokesman Donald Iloff had claimed that the property is inaccessible because of surrounding waters.

Osteen was prompted to respond to the criticism. “We have never closed our doors,” he said in a statement quoted by ABC and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “We will continue to be a distribution center to those in need. We are prepared to house people once shelters reach capacity.”

Washington, D.C.–based writer Charles Clymer tweeted pictures of Lakewood Church, which did not appear to be damaged by floods, and later updated his feed with this shot from inside the church, where air mattresses had been laid out apparently meant to receive flood victims.

View image on Twitter

 

Charles Clymer 

 

✔@cmclymer

Lakewood Church apparently bought countless air mattresses and are prepping to open their doors. Took a while but good news.#JoelOsteen

8:47 PM - Aug 28, 2017

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It makes no sense to open church doors when the city and county are already treating thousands of flood victims at the nearby George R. Brown Convention Center, according to Iloff.

“It has everything inside there — medicine, doctors, places to sleep,” Iloff said of the convention center. “It’s amazing what they’re doing there to make people comfortable.”

Lakewood is a nondenominational church hosting some 52,000 attendees weekly and is one of the largest congregations in the U.S.

A version of this report originally appeared on NYPost.com.

You're really quick to judge.

There is way more to it than just opening a door and saying "ya'll come".

I don't like the man, so don't get that twisted.

Who will feed these people? Clean up after them? Repair damages caused by them? Who is responsible for any injuries on their property?

Yes, the church should help. But you have no clue exactly what is going on. 

Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

lilyofcourse wrote:

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You're really quick to judge.

There is way more to it than just opening a door and saying "ya'll come".

I don't like the man, so don't get that twisted.

Who will feed these people? Clean up after them? Repair damages caused by them? Who is responsible for any injuries on their property?

Yes, the church should help. But you have no clue exactly what is going on. 

Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

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 OH, give me a break.  You judge all the damn time.  Are you reading the verse you are posting?  

Furthermore, as Christians, it is our JOB to judge those among us not following God's word, and it is the pastor's role to lead, guide and set an example, being even more greatly judged.

You can pull up your random verses all you please, but the Bible contains more than one simple verse - especially one you have taken out of context.  Try adding verses 4 and 5 - Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

Also - 

In 1 Corinthians 5:12-13, when Paul is instructing the church on how to deal with a brother’s sexual sin, he states, “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. ‘Purge the evil person from among you.’”

In Corinthians 4:4-5 the Bible says not to judge others because it is referring to motives. In 1 Corinthians 5:12-13, the Bible says to judge other Christians because it is referring to external sins. A few quick qualifying points about 1 Corinthians 5:12-13:

• This Bible passage is referring to a person who claims to be a Christian. Christians are only to judge other Christians’ external sins, not the sins of unbelievers (1 Corinthians 5:9-11).
• The Bible passage is referring to a Christian who is in an unrepentant, ongoing sin (1 Corinthians 5:1-2). When a Christian repents of their sin, even if they must repent often, we are not to judge them. We are only to execute judgment on those who claim to be a Christian and yet refuse to repent of sin.

Would you also like to see verses on serving others, and the role of the teachers of God's word?

James 3:1

1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

1 Peter 5:1-4

1 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.

Titus 1:5-9

5 The reason I left you in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. 6 An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. 7 Since an overseer manages God’s household, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. 8 Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. 9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

1 Timothy 3:1-13

1 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap. 

I'm taking it out of context? Can you see through the log in YOUR eye? 

I've said I don't like him, and I'm no saint. 

But I don't profess God with one breath and curse with the next. 

You do not know the situation there, you are relying on secular and social media. 

I've seen the footage, everything in Houston is flooded. 

Places that were deemed in terms safe zone were flooded.

And now that they are open, you want to cry "too little, too late".

Give you a break? How about you get off your high horse and give someone on the ground dealing with the flooding a break? 

And as far as your hatred for "rich preachers", the Bible clearly states that God gives back to those who give.

Pressed down, shaken together, and running over. Poured into your lap.

So a preacher, who follows all the commandments, and there are more than just 10, does God's work, and gives his tithes and his love offerings should be able to have nice things and not be living in poverty. 

lilyofcourse wrote:

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I'm taking it out of context? Can you see through the log in YOUR eye? 

 

I've said I don't like him, and I'm no saint. 

 

But I don't profess God with one breath and curse with the next. 

 

You do not know the situation there, you are relying on secular and social media. 

 

I've seen the footage, everything in Houston is flooded. 

Places that were deemed in terms safe zone were flooded.

And now that they are open, you want to cry "too little, too late".

Give you a break? How about you get off your high horse and give someone on the ground dealing with the flooding a break? 

 

And as far as your hatred for "rich preachers", the Bible clearly states that God gives back to those who give.

 

Pressed down, shaken together, and running over. Poured into your lap.

So a preacher, who follows all the commandments, and there are more than just 10, does God's work, and gives his tithes and his love offerings should be able to have nice things and not be living in poverty. 

 

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 Yes, I absolutely can.   I should do more.  I absolutely know that.  Do you?

Preachers can make money - but they should be using it to Glorify God and help others, not buy themselves $10 million mansions. 

The Bible tells us how preachers should be - and CLEARLY states they are not to be lovers of money.  That they are to be examples.  And if their example is to spend millions on making themselves more comfortable rather than helping others - that is NOT an example a Christian should emulate. 

lilyofcourse wrote:

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Forever Sunshine wrote:

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LL is right in this situation, imo! A Christian wouldn't wait until all other available resources are used up or filled. It's been my experience that those who preach the loudest are usually the ones who DO nothing.

I worked for the United Methodist Church in my area as a church secretary. Loved the job, ultimately hated the pastor. He was a great orator; many came to hear him preach. But, one day, a call came into the church from a distraught woman wanting to speak to the pastor regarding some behavioral issues she was having with her early teen son. I placed her on hold and went in the Pastor's office to tell him. His first question, "Is she a member?" I said "no". He then said "no". I said "but...". He said "NO" and that was that. I spent the next two plus hours on the phone with the woman, who was extremely grateful to have an compassionate ear. We traded some stories and in the end, laughed a bit. When I was finished with the woman, I cleaned out my desk, marched into the Pastor's office and told him exactly what I thought of his version of "Christianity". I called him a few choice words and then quit. Never went back to that church again.

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 I agree, that situation was wrong.

However, if a place is not equipped to receive 30,000 in crisis victims, should they do so? 

It seems that pointing people to those who know how to take in emergency crisis victims on that large of a scale is the right thing to do.

 

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 30,000?  How about 5000?  How about 100?  People are DYING in the streets of Houston, while Joel Osteen sat dry in his comfy mansion with a security guard at the door of his dry church.  It is a CHURCH.  What part of that do you not understand?  

lilyofcourse wrote:

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I'm not saying I like the man.

I'm not saying I think he is a "proper Christian".

What I am saying is, I'm not there, don't know what the actual situation is, don't know what he is thinking.

I do know I'm not going to sit in my dry, comfortable home, 100s of miles away, making judgement calls.

I don't see anything that was done wrong in this instance.

-- Edited by lilyofcourse on Wednesday 30th of August 2017 08:04:32 AM

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 And I cannot agree.  Because preachers and churches represent God, and what kind of message has he sent to the world?  We'll help you after all other resources are utilized first?  I think that's crappy.

And I also think that even if the basement and parking of his church WAS flooded, it doesn't matter.  The main floors were dry with power.  He CLOSED his church and said "we'll help only after everyone else is exhausted first."  You don't do that.  

And I think a lot of people sitting dry in their comfortable homes 100s of miles away, did more than he did in the first couple of days simply by picking up their phones or going online and making donations.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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If he intentionally locked the Church to keep people out, then yes, he can answer to God for that. But, I seriously doubt there was any intent. Looks like every other place down there was deserted with the doors closed. So ,people want to heap on criticism when there isn't even any indication that anyone even attempted to seek shelter there.

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 I agree.  and churches don't stay open anymore. I'm not a fan but seriously. 

BTW, they now have a surplus of supplies for people:

Nope. People were desperate for a dry place to find shelter - you just have to open the doors. It doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't have to be prepared. It only has to be WELCOMING. And a church with over 15,000 members shouldn't have trouble finding a few volunteers.

And please refer to your own "judge not, lest ye be judged" response.

Cheerios4606 wrote:

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That post on facebook was in reference to the man's christianity. Discerning whether or not he is a man of God to be followed. And thanks for attempting to use that against me. It reminds me I need to unfriend you.

Meanwhile, feel free to continue feeding your hate and dislike, to be honest it is starting to consume every aspect of your life and your dealings with people, so it really is not surprising that you are foaming at the mouth over this guy and the actions of the members of his church.

Now go back and read my post again and try to have a bit of understanding and compassion for the many people that work at that church that is under a microscope and ask yourself if you would deal so well if someone suddenly pointed at you and said "You didnt open your doors to help the needy! You are a horrible person!"

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 Please do so.  Trust me, hate does not run my life.  If you see it, it has become a reflection of something in yours.  But if you are going to point fingers because I judge someone I am supposed to judge, a minister of God unwilling to step up when needed, you better point that finger back to yourself.  

Maybe your ex -"friends" were right.