Dear Carolyn: My retired mother-in-law graciously provides day care for my two daughters while my wife and I work. With child care in our city being practically unaffordable, it’s a huge help to us and beneficial for the children, we feel.
But she exacts a toll for her efforts — mainly in the form of constantly haranguing and lecturing my wife on her deficiencies as a mother, i.e. doing anything differently from the way she did because she was obviously the perfect mother.
Mainly, we put up with it quietly, but the latest rant really bothers me. My wife and I wanted to celebrate our fifth anniversary, and my mother-in-law basically told us it’s selfish and self-centered to do anything as a couple, as our focus should be entirely on our kids. It took all my nerve not to shout at her that maybe that attitude is exactly why her relationship with her husband is terrible (they barely speak).
My wife just wants to move on and not do date nights because of it.
How can I explain to her and her mother that doing things as a couple is essential to a healthy marriage and not “selfish”? — Really Bothered
Dear Bothered: When you say day care is “practically unaffordable,” you’re just talking money. You can’t afford your mother-in-law’s care emotionally for much longer.
I suppose if you had no other work or day-care options, or if it were just a matter of counting to 20 during her judgmental rants and then politely ignoring her to do as you see fit, then it would make sense to keep paying her toll. However, your wife doesn’t shrug this off; she’s actually overruling her own judgment in response to the criticism. Even if she doesn’t agree, she’s buckling under the weight of it and making choices she wouldn’t otherwise make.
That’s poison. It’s bad for your marriage, but it’s corrosive to your wife’s confidence as spouse and parent, and confusing for your daughters. Let’s not pretend you’re keeping it from them, because kids learn to read you fluently well before they can form the words to explain that.
Not to mention, this dynamic is flat-out terrible for whatever relationship you two have left with your mother-in-law. That’s the least of my concerns here, but it might hold sway with your wife — and you need her to summon her strength to resist her mother.
To see how, let’s zoom in on two modifiers in your letter: Your mother-in-law provides day care, but to do so “graciously” would require some baseline respect for you two as parents; and day care is “practically” unaffordable, which means you can afford it, if barely. Yes?
These words are your two points of access to the problem. You either set whatever limits you must with this caregiver for her attitude to pass for grace, or you curb your spending enough to afford a new caregiver.
It is really as simple as that.
The former is profoundly overdue and best handled by your wife, but if she’s not up to it then it’ll suffice for you to handle it with your wife’s blessing. Here’s how, using your example: When your mother-in-law says it’s “selfish and self-centered” to go out, you say, “We will hire a sitter, then. Please do not tell us how to conduct our marriage.”
Done.
When she lectures your wife, stand up for your wife where she can’t stand up for herself: “(Wife) is an excellent parent. I’m grateful for her every day.” When your mother-in-law persists: “You raised her. Maybe it’s time to trust you did it right.”
And when she refuses to respect these limits: “You stepped in to care for our kids, which was an enormous help, and our kids love you. We love you. But we can’t continue this arrangement if you don’t respect us and our way of doing things. Can we count on you to support us, no matter how well-meaning your corrections may be?”
To you and everyone now thinking, “Yeah, right”: I agree. If she’d merrily agree to this — if there weren’t some element of control to her stepping in as caregiver — then you wouldn’t be forced to insist. But this is how it goes when placing new limits where none have existed. You must ask for what you need.
When you don’t get it, you must attach consequences. If she refuses your rules, respectfully and therefore graciously, then she cannot serve in your household at all.
Which is why even if you’re strong enough to take this on, your wife must find her strength, too. This works only if she can fire the very mother who raised her to acquiesce. If/when she can’t — yet — then take it to a good family therapist.
Maybe MIL is tired of being used as a free babysitter all day while they work AND for date nights and for them to go out and play footsie. Quit being a cheap ass and hire a sitter. Or, actually stay home and try raising your own children. There's a thought.
I was thinking that it is a big deal that she's providing day care while they're at work, that is huge financially. I think they could spring for a different babysitter for a few hours in the evening when they want to go out.
I was thinking that it is a big deal that she's providing day care while they're at work, that is huge financially. I think they could spring for a different babysitter for a few hours in the evening when they want to go out.
I was thinking this too.
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Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
Well, yeah. But Mom shouldn't be commenting on their parenting over wanting a date night. She should just tell them - I watch the kids all day, I'm not doing nights, too.
Why is common sense so hard for people to say?
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
I watch my grandson while my son and Dil works and also if they want to go out. It didn't sound like she babysit them every Friday night. A anniversary is special and if grandma doesn't want to she could just say no without the carp.
MIL does not have a say just because she's the grandmother and caregiver when the children's parents are working or out. It's her job, as caregiver, to adhere to the parents' rules, etc. in their absence.
As for date night, I think if they parents are saving money on daycare thanks to MIL, they should spring for a sitter at night if they choose to go out.
I've heard the "that's selfish" lecture when I wanted to just take a shower alone.
The LW and his wife could dial back their lifestyle and one stay home with the kids till they go to school.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
When starting a family, you need to weigh the pros and cons of staying home. If they cannot afford child care, it's because they do not make enough money to justify it. And if they do not make enough money for childcare, perhaps they should consider giving up a job to stay home until they become old enough to start public school. t
While it is nice that her mother is willing and able to provide child care, I think I would be doing things for mom as a form of payment. A gift card to her favorite restaurant. A new sweater or some groceries for her to take home with her.
An anniversary night out is not selfish, but it is apparently more than mom is willing to help out with. But it's important to husband. So make other arrangements. Find a neighborhood teenager who needs some extra cash. Or another mother with whom you can exchange sitting. Mom is tapped out.
OK - I get the "don't use mom for daycare". But if this is something she offered because she wants to take care of her grandkids, that doesn't mean she gets to be a bitch about it.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
OK, I've read and re-read this, and nowhere does it say that they are asking the MIL to babysit. Just that they wanted to go out and she had a hissy fit.
They shouldn't tell her everything...
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America guarantees equal opportunity, not equal outcome...
OK, I've read and re-read this, and nowhere does it say that they are asking the MIL to babysit. Just that they wanted to go out and she had a hissy fit.
They shouldn't tell her everything...
I agree! It is none of her business if they want to go out together to celebrate their anniversary. I can understand her not wanting to babysit every Friday or Saturday night, but don't be so hateful about it.
OK, I've read and re-read this, and nowhere does it say that they are asking the MIL to babysit. Just that they wanted to go out and she had a hissy fit.
They shouldn't tell her everything...
I agree! It is none of her business if they want to go out together to celebrate their anniversary. I can understand her not wanting to babysit every Friday or Saturday night, but don't be so hateful about it.
You gals are right.
It doesn't say that they asked MIL to babysit.
And, for sure, they should be able to enjoy a night out a couple of times a month.
And, especially on an important day, like their anniversary.
That said...they need to drop this bitch like a hot rock.
From the article:
But she exacts a toll for her efforts — mainly in the form of constantly haranguing and lecturing my wife on her deficiencies as a mother, i.e. doing anything differently from the way she did because she was obviously the perfect mother.
This Grandma is toxic. Running her own daughter down that way??
I wouldn't leave my children with her for five minutes...let alone five days a week.
SHe's the one doing the free babysitting for them and she's the bitch? Maybe try putting your kids as a priority rather than your money or your social life. Just a thought. Maybe MIL sees her that her daughter isn't being a very good mother.
SHe's the one doing the free babysitting for them and she's the bitch? Maybe try putting your kids as a priority rather than your money or your social life. Just a thought. Maybe MIL sees her that her daughter isn't being a very good mother.
Yeah, Gaga. Sometimes people do things for the wrong reason - like exerting control over the family. She uses her opportunities to denigrate her daughter. And you make some pretty terrible assumptions - WORKING means you don't put your kids first? Wanting to go out on a date night on your anniversary means you put your social life first? What the hell kind of fvcked up attitude it that?
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
If the price of her babysitting is her thinking she can insult me and get up in my business then she's indeed toxic and I would make other arrangements.
She has no right interfering in their marriage
But they opened the door by depending on her for child care.
They opened the door for help with childcare. That's all. It doesn't give the mother free rein to say and do whatever she wants! And if she offered to do the babysitting in order to insert herself in to their marriage and child-rearing then they need to sit her down and explain that that is not her "job".
You have choices. Ask her to stop giving advice. If she doesnt then suck it up or find another sitter. The beitching and whining can end if you want to make it end, on both sides. Mil can also say, no i am not watching them except for work days, etc. Both parties can act like grown ups or not.
SHe's the one doing the free babysitting for them and she's the bitch? Maybe try putting your kids as a priority rather than your money or your social life. Just a thought. Maybe MIL sees her that her daughter isn't being a very good mother.
Yeah, Gaga. Sometimes people do things for the wrong reason - like exerting control over the family. She uses her opportunities to denigrate her daughter. And you make some pretty terrible assumptions - WORKING means you don't put your kids first? Wanting to go out on a date night on your anniversary means you put your social life first? What the hell kind of fvcked up attitude it that?
There is no substitute mom. Yeah how fvcked up is that!
You have choices. Ask her to stop giving advice. If she doesnt then suck it up or find another sitter. The beitching and whining can end if you want to make it end, on both sides. Mil can also say, no i am not watching them except for work days, etc. Both parties can act like grown ups or not.
It doesn't say they asked her to babysit while they went out.
Of course, it's much better that they just cut mom off and the kids don't see their grandmother and vice versa, right? No one is MAKING her babysit. She's a damned adult. If she doesn't want to babysit, they she needs to open her mouth and say it.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
SHe's the one doing the free babysitting for them and she's the bitch? Maybe try putting your kids as a priority rather than your money or your social life. Just a thought. Maybe MIL sees her that her daughter isn't being a very good mother.
Yeah, Gaga. Sometimes people do things for the wrong reason - like exerting control over the family. She uses her opportunities to denigrate her daughter. And you make some pretty terrible assumptions - WORKING means you don't put your kids first? Wanting to go out on a date night on your anniversary means you put your social life first? What the hell kind of fvcked up attitude it that?
There is no substitute mom. Yeah how fvcked up is that!
So, you become a parent and you can no longer go out to dinner with your spouse? That's nuts.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
They opened the door for help with childcare. That's all. It doesn't give the mother free rein to say and do whatever she wants! And if she offered to do the babysitting in order to insert herself in to their marriage and child-rearing then they need to sit her down and explain that that is not her "job".
For a reasonable person I agree. That doesn't give her licence but obviously the mother is not reasonable.
The reality is don't accept help from a controller if you don't want to open the door to their intrusion and lack of boundaries.
Have the tee shirt there from controlling parents that think if they do something for you then they can do and say anything
-- Edited by Mary Zombie on Wednesday 18th of October 2017 04:01:22 PM
Oh and they don't have to cut her off from her grand kids but she can just visit and be fun Grandma.
Although I would limit contact between my ficticious kids and a woman that denigrates me whether she baby sat or Not. That's not even the main point For me. Someone that says mean things about me wouldn't get unsupervised time with my kids. If I had them.
-- Edited by Mary Zombie on Wednesday 18th of October 2017 04:05:51 PM
-- Edited by Mary Zombie on Wednesday 18th of October 2017 04:06:27 PM
SHe's the one doing the free babysitting for them and she's the bitch? Maybe try putting your kids as a priority rather than your money or your social life. Just a thought. Maybe MIL sees her that her daughter isn't being a very good mother.
Yeah, Gaga. Sometimes people do things for the wrong reason - like exerting control over the family. She uses her opportunities to denigrate her daughter. And you make some pretty terrible assumptions - WORKING means you don't put your kids first? Wanting to go out on a date night on your anniversary means you put your social life first? What the hell kind of fvcked up attitude it that?
There is no substitute mom. Yeah how fvcked up is that!
So, you become a parent and you can no longer go out to dinner with your spouse? That's nuts.
It's like being in a plane. You secure the oxygen mask to yourself first, and then your children. They won't make it if you don't. In a marriage, the marriage comes first. Because if your marriage makes it your kids are healthier. You put your kids first by putting your spouse first. Imo
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Was it a bad day?
Or was it a bad five minutes that you milked all day?
I agree, vette. And I also note that they never said they asked mom to sit while they go out. If they were not asking her to help out, they should learn from this and not discuss their plans with mom.
I agree, vette. And I also note that they never said they asked mom to sit while they go out. If they were not asking her to help out, they should learn from this and not discuss their plans with mom.
I agree, too, Vette.
The parents are The Sun, and the children are The Planets, revolving around the Sun.
Not the other way around.
Strong parents, usually have great children.
This Grandma, is putting her own daughter down.
For shame.
I really wouldn't want her doing daycare, 5 days a week.
I wouldn't want her alone, with my children...for five minutes.