If you are grown up enough to make a baby - you are grown up enough to get married when it happens. Being a parent means sacrifice.

Forever Sunshine wrote:

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You don't have to be married to make sacrifices for your children. Years ago, you couldn't even put the father's name on the birth certificate unless you were married. Now, you can. I don't see where being legally married is some great sacrifice for your kids.

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 I hear all the time, "I don't want to get married JUST because I'm pregnant."  Well, really, a child?  Is there a better reason to get married?  You liked each other enough to make a baby - now like each other enough to commit to raising that baby together.  

And yes, I know single women do it all the time alone - usually because they have to.  But that is one of the breakdowns of the family in the world - men not stepping up, and women choosing to or having to do it alone.  Studies show children do better in two parent households, and getting back to basics on this might help bring us back to a place where Johnny doesn't shoot up the school because a girl dumps him.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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Not getting married because you don't want to is a perfectly valid reason not to get married.

And just because you get married doesn't mean your doing some great and wonderful thing for your child.

Sometimes, NOT getting married is EXACTLY the right thing to do.

Yes. We've all seen and read the surveys.

But a two parent home doesn't really mean anything these days.

Single parents raise well rounded, well adjusted kids all day every day.

 

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 You can say that all day long, but the studies don't agree with you.  While single mothers CAN raise perfectly fine children (my mother was a single parent most of my life)- you will find that most drug addicted addicted children come from broken homes and criminals are more likely to come from broken homes, as well.  

Disregarding the good living with 2 parents does is exactly the kind of breakdown that minimizes the importance of fathers in a child's life.  I get why you are doing it - but your situation doesn't make a rule for all of society. 

And it's not like this is news. These statistics have pretty much been the same since the 80s. But people ignore it. Because "I don't want to" is the all encompassing mantra of the "me" generation. Men used to work like dogs to support their families at sucky jobs, and now many would rather be unemployed than work at jobs they consider beneath them. Women will leave perfectly good men because they don't excite them, anymore.

I'm not talking about getting out of abusive relationships or people that have no choice - I'm talking about people who choose to disregard the betterment of their children for their own selfish pursuits. I'm talking about people that make babies but don't want to change their lives to care for them.

Oh - and my favorite - "the kids are better off with divorced parents than fighting parents". How about you stop fighting in front of your kids? How about people stop cheating on their spouses? How about people live with morals and teach those morals to their kids?

And I'm fully aware that many single parents are not single parents by choice; they are doing the best they can - they have crappy exes. And those crappy exes are who my rant is directed at.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Friday 23rd of February 2018 11:50:33 AM

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Living together is not marriage.

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 No, it's not.  

Some states do recognize living together as common law marriages.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Forever Sunshine wrote:

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Some states do recognize living together as common law marriages.

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 So what?  So you just live together for years and then make the law marry you?  

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Why do you even care what others do? You scream all the time for people to mind their own business! Common law marriages have been in existence for centuries 

Forever Sunshine wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Forever Sunshine wrote:

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You don't have to be married to make sacrifices for your children. Years ago, you couldn't even put the father's name on the birth certificate unless you were married. Now, you can. I don't see where being legally married is some great sacrifice for your kids.

---

 I hear all the time, "I don't want to get married JUST because I'm pregnant."  Well, really, a child?  Is there a better reason to get married?  You liked each other enough to make a baby - now like each other enough to commit to raising that baby together.  

And yes, I know single women do it all the time alone - usually because they have to.  But that is one of the breakdowns of the family in the world - men not stepping up, and women choosing to or having to do it alone.  Studies show children do better in two parent households, and getting back to basics on this might help bring us back to a place where Johnny doesn't shoot up the school because a girl dumps him.

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So, are you then against in vitro fertilization? 

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I assume you mean to a single woman?  That's a tough one.  I realize a woman may get to a certain age without ever marrying and want a child.   It is a different circumstance, b/c a poor young woman is not going to have a child via in vitro, she has to have the money to pay for it, and hopefully, the money to raise a child outside of poverty.  Not being raised in poverty helps avert some of the issues.  

But that still doesn't change the fact that the child doesn't have a father to help raise it.  And I believe that's important.  Not only for the child's sake, but for the woman's.  A single parent just can't give the same attention to a child as two parents can.  There's no divvying up the responsibility.  And no one to take over when you've just really had a bad day and need some time alone.  Being a single parent is very, very difficult - especially if you are parenting well.  

Forever Sunshine wrote:

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Some states do recognize living together as common law marriages.

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 Then get married officially and show that you made the choice to make the commitment, and not just fell into it.  That's like your guy giving you flowers just because someone gave them to him for free and he didn't know what else to do with them.  

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

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Frankly, a lot of women make very poor choices in who they decide to let father their children as well. Women need to own that. Yes, sometimes a perfectly good guy goes off the rails. But, there are also many times where everyone can see the impending train wreck ahead but she "LOVES" him.

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 Yep.  Or lust clouds the brain.

FNW wrote:

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Although I'll admit I haven't looked this up recently, but I seem to remember from law school that one of the elements of a common law marriage is that the couple holds themselves out as being married. Not too many couples who aren't married pretend to be married, do they? Isn't the common law marriage law intended to protect those who actually thought they were married but due to a technicality aren't? LL, does this ring a bell with you?

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 You have to hold yourself out as married, but that can be accomplished easily - and differs per state.  For example, registering as a married couple in a hotel overnight in a state that acknowledges common law marriage.  

 

The reason common law marriage exists is because it used to be difficult to get married.  Many places you had to wait months for a traveling preacher or judge to come to town.  So, common - law, you express your intent to be married, hold yourselves out as married, and live together. 

 

So, no - simply co-habitating without intending to be married does not make you married. 

There are also time requirements, so I'm not sure one hotel reservation would qualify unless it were a pattern. Your friends, if the state honors CL marriages I would think they would qualify.

Lawyerlady wrote:

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Forever Sunshine wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Forever Sunshine wrote:

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You don't have to be married to make sacrifices for your children. Years ago, you couldn't even put the father's name on the birth certificate unless you were married. Now, you can. I don't see where being legally married is some great sacrifice for your kids.

---

 I hear all the time, "I don't want to get married JUST because I'm pregnant."  Well, really, a child?  Is there a better reason to get married?  You liked each other enough to make a baby - now like each other enough to commit to raising that baby together.  

And yes, I know single women do it all the time alone - usually because they have to.  But that is one of the breakdowns of the family in the world - men not stepping up, and women choosing to or having to do it alone.  Studies show children do better in two parent households, and getting back to basics on this might help bring us back to a place where Johnny doesn't shoot up the school because a girl dumps him.

---

So, are you then against in vitro fertilization? 

---

I assume you mean to a single woman?  That's a tough one.  I realize a woman may get to a certain age without ever marrying and want a child.   It is a different circumstance, b/c a poor young woman is not going to have a child via in vitro, she has to have the money to pay for it, and hopefully, the money to raise a child outside of poverty.  Not being raised in poverty helps avert some of the issues.  

But that still doesn't change the fact that the child doesn't have a father to help raise it.  And I believe that's important.  Not only for the child's sake, but for the woman's.  A single parent just can't give the same attention to a child as two parents can.  There's no divvying up the responsibility.  And no one to take over when you've just really had a bad day and need some time alone.  Being a single parent is very, very difficult - especially if you are parenting well.  

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 Invitro is mandated to be covered. Welfare queen Octomom ring a bell?  I still shake my head over that situation.

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Forever Sunshine wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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Forever Sunshine wrote:

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You don't have to be married to make sacrifices for your children. Years ago, you couldn't even put the father's name on the birth certificate unless you were married. Now, you can. I don't see where being legally married is some great sacrifice for your kids.

---

 I hear all the time, "I don't want to get married JUST because I'm pregnant."  Well, really, a child?  Is there a better reason to get married?  You liked each other enough to make a baby - now like each other enough to commit to raising that baby together.  

And yes, I know single women do it all the time alone - usually because they have to.  But that is one of the breakdowns of the family in the world - men not stepping up, and women choosing to or having to do it alone.  Studies show children do better in two parent households, and getting back to basics on this might help bring us back to a place where Johnny doesn't shoot up the school because a girl dumps him.

---

So, are you then against in vitro fertilization? 

---

I assume you mean to a single woman?  That's a tough one.  I realize a woman may get to a certain age without ever marrying and want a child.   It is a different circumstance, b/c a poor young woman is not going to have a child via in vitro, she has to have the money to pay for it, and hopefully, the money to raise a child outside of poverty.  Not being raised in poverty helps avert some of the issues.  

But that still doesn't change the fact that the child doesn't have a father to help raise it.  And I believe that's important.  Not only for the child's sake, but for the woman's.  A single parent just can't give the same attention to a child as two parents can.  There's no divvying up the responsibility.  And no one to take over when you've just really had a bad day and need some time alone.  Being a single parent is very, very difficult - especially if you are parenting well.  

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 Invitro is mandated to be covered. Welfare queen Octomom ring a bell?  I still shake my head over that situation.

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 Nope - she didn't use insurance to pay for that.  California specifically excludes in vitro from insurance coverage.  She used an inheritance and her disability to pay for it.

And the doctor that did it had his license revoked.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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All the same arguments.

Fact is, you can raise your child in a perfect home and still have a drug addicted, serial killer.

They can grow up and, gasp, choose to live with someone without getting married.

They can even get pregnant and have babies.

I used to have a had set idea of what and how things should be.

Then my kids became adults.

Life really does shape your perspective. 

 

 

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 As a Christian mother - there is a right way to do things, and that is God's way.  Which is what I teach my children.  And those teachings won't change if they decide to do things differently.  I will love them, of course, but my views on the subject will not change.  

No living together outside of marriage.  No sex before marriage, and no babies before marriage.  That is what I teach them.  They may well decide not to listen, but changing my viewpoint based upon their views is not how it works.  

But history has shown over and over that children in stable households with 2 normal parents (as opposed to abusive) are less likely to become drug addicts, criminals and serial killers.

Our prisons are filled with kids from single parent or broken households (90%).

You, Lily, have done very well with your children considering their terrible father. You should be extremely proud to have defeated the statistics.

There are many who've defeated the statistics. What are the stats on children raised in a two-parent home who fight /argue all the time with verbal and possible physical abuse. This doesn't just fall on single parenting.

I absolutely agree on the growing disrespect of the nuclear family and moral fabric that binds society but I'm not so sure that the institution of marriage is what held it all together. I think there are far more things involved in the downfall of morality and society as a whole.

My first marriage was a stupid union. I was young and pregnant and knew he was not good father material (sorry DS) But married him because that was the right thing to do for DS. I stuck it out until I finally accepted that drugs would always be apart of him and he had put DS an me in danger because he was dealing. I promptly left. All my family and some friends knew from the get go he was not right for me.

Second marriage; he was the "perfect" guy. Everyone thought so as did I. And on the honeymoon he started exhibiting abusive behavior. I was pregnant with DD (found out after all the plans for the big wedding were in place). He went nuts on the honeymoon and tried to get me to miscarry, won't go into details. And that behavior continued. We divorced quickly.

My point is sometimes it is not always in the hands of the single parent to be single, we do it for our kids' safety. I tried very hard to make both marriages work but it wasn't up to me. My kids were more important than my husbands. It sucks for them to have been raised in a single parent home but in each case I made sure my kids were surrounded by my siblings and their kids and such so at least they had a nuclear family. I understand that many of your points about single parents have nothing to do with my situation.

I think some of the single parents today do not have a nuclear family, as I did, to rely on since their own parents were not married and so have a very displaced family. Very sad.

I did it all the right way. He and I didn't live together before getting married. We got married, had Caitlyn 3 months after our first anniversary. All three of my kids were conceived and born during marriage.

Being married is not a glorious binding that always lasts forever.

Looking back, I'm not sure if I would marry him again. I'd have the same kids with him, but probably wouldn't marry.

FNW wrote:

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It can be done. Lily's living proof. However, it's hard work. Not all mothers are willing to put in the work of two parents, or have the support system that is needed.

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 And for some it is just so much of a struggle doing it alone.  How can you be the parent that eats dinner with your kids every night and reads them stories, and helps them with their homework, and takes them to sports, when you are working your ass off just to feed them, keep them clothed and not live in a sty.  

lilyofcourse wrote:

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Sacrifices.

Compromise.

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 Yes.  And it's those sacrifices and compromises that often leave kids to their own devices a lot more, which gives them greater opportunity to make bad choices.  

Sacrifice and compromise for the benefit of the child.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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Sacrifice and compromise for the benefit of the child.

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 Lily - a working single parent cannot do everything 2 people can do.  It's absolutely not possible.  I'm not saying that makes them a bad person, I'm saying it makes it harder all around.