All the articles I can find are just too long to post here, but I am sure you have heard or read about Jeff Sessions quoting the Bible in reference to dividing families on this immigration problem. I just wondered if any of you had thoughts on this. Quoting the Bible can be tricky as we know from the history of slavery. During that period the Bible was quoted as a source to recognizes slavery (rightly or wrongly, anyway it was quoted by many ministers and believed by their congregations). Is that the case here or what? I am certainly not a Biblical scholar but know we have a lot of people on the board who are Christian and I wondered what they think.
Karl, I think it is a bad move on his part. The families are being separated because it is illegal to do so. The parents have to go to a jail but we are doing the best we can to take care of the kids. The parents knew this prior to coming over the border. Quoting religious beliefs is not the way to go. IMO Sessions needs to go.
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Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
All this hoopla is ridiculous. It's been the law since 1996 and Obama did it, too. It's just convenient to bash Trump for it.
As for the Bible - it tells us to follow the laws unless they directly conflict with God's law. The law is clear here and people know it going in. I'm tired of people wanting to enable illegal activity.
And those people USING their children for political purposes, and bringing them here knowing they are going to be separated is child abuse IMO.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
So another thought. The parents bring their kids here knowing it's illegal but also because the chances are high that their kids will either be somewhat a slave to drug cartels or sold into human trafficking. For that I have compassion. Thing is these kids already have a better life. Working toilets and showers and food in the alledged cages.
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Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
A good percentage of them come from South America. They travel 3,000 miles though Mexico to get here. Why not apply for asylum in Mexico, if things are really that bad? And really, application for asylum is an afterthought. They aren't facing persecution.
And what about the parents who ARE here legally or are U.S. citizens who commit crimes, are hauled off to jail, leaving the children to enter the foster system? Why should the illegals receive preferential treatment over lawbreakers who are legal citizens?
A good percentage of them come from South America. They travel 3,000 miles though Mexico to get here. Why not apply for asylum in Mexico, if things are really that bad? And really, application for asylum is an afterthought. They aren't facing persecution.
By LAW you have to be on US soil to apply for asylum.
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“One day, you will be old enough to start reading fairytales again.”
C.S.Lewis
Trump blames/points to Obama. Obama blames/points to Bush. Bush blames/points to Clinton. Clinton blames/points to Bush. JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE DID IT, DOES NOT MEAN IT IS RIGHTEOUS.
And damn it, Obama did not take children away from a parent, the families were kept together. The only kids who were detained alone were the ones who CROSSED the border alone. BIG HUGE DIFFERENCE.
As to the law? U.S. Code › Title 8 › Chapter 12 › Subchapter II › Part VIII › § 1325
a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of— (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
Up until Trump, breaking the law was enforced as a misdemeanor. So if you are going to use the justification that Obama did X so we can do X, then dont be a hypocrite about ALL of what Obama did.
More importantly, don't use the BIBLE to justify not being MORAL. Especially when you only pick out one or two sentences without using said teachings summary.
Romans 13 calls Christians to be subject to governing authorities, it makes it clear that these authorities also have a great debt of responsibility to honor what is right: “Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.” And what is right? The passage goes on to tell us the ultimate truth: “The commandments… are summed up in this one command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Finally, on a logistical and financial stance alone - what a stupidly ****ed up move. It is going to cost the government MORE to house/feed/clothe/care for these kids separately and then finally reunifying them with their parents right before they are deported than it would be to keep them ALL TOGETHER during their parents' hearings.
Oh yeah, and until there is a DUE PROCESS, NO ONE has found guilty.
-- Edited by Ilumine on Tuesday 19th of June 2018 04:13:05 PM
__________________
“One day, you will be old enough to start reading fairytales again.”
C.S.Lewis
A good percentage of them come from South America. They travel 3,000 miles though Mexico to get here. Why not apply for asylum in Mexico, if things are really that bad? And really, application for asylum is an afterthought. They aren't facing persecution.
By LAW you have to be on US soil to apply for asylum.
From what I have heard, most don't ask for it until they get caught, which could be months.
Trump blames/points to Obama. Obama blames/points to Bush. Bush blames/points to Clinton. Clinton blames/points to Bush. JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE DID IT, DOES NOT MEAN IT IS RIGHTEOUS.
And damn it, Obama did not take children away from a parent, the families were kept together. The only kids who were detained alone were the ones who CROSSED the border alone. BIG HUGE DIFFERENCE.
As to the law? U.S. Code › Title 8 › Chapter 12 › Subchapter II › Part VIII › § 1325
a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of— (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
Up until Trump, breaking the law was enforced as a misdemeanor. So if you are going to use the justification that Obama did X so we can do X, then dont be a hypocrite about ALL of what Obama did.
More importantly, don't use the BIBLE to justify not being MORAL. Especially when you only pick out one or two sentences without using said teachings summary.
Romans 13 calls Christians to be subject to governing authorities, it makes it clear that these authorities also have a great debt of responsibility to honor what is right: “Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.” And what is right? The passage goes on to tell us the ultimate truth: “The commandments… are summed up in this one command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Finally, on a logistical and financial stance alone - what a stupidly ****ed up move. It is going to cost the government MORE to house/feed/clothe/care for these kids separately and then finally reunifying them with their parents right before they are deported than it would be to keep them ALL TOGETHER during their parents' hearings.
Oh yeah, and until there is a DUE PROCESS, NO ONE has found guilty.
-- Edited by Ilumine on Tuesday 19th of June 2018 04:13:05 PM
The ONLY people detained are the ones that cross the border. can't detain those on Mexican soil since we have no jurisdiction. Detainees were detained in all administrations.
__________________
Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
Under the law, a first time offense is at MOST a 6 month jail sentence. AT MOST means that there is to be a hearing to determine said sentence. Which means that, under US laws, the person is not convicted of a crime until said hearing. So why has the government gone to such extremes?
I'm not saying that when a person crosses the border illegally, they should not be detained until they have a hearing. What IS at question, is why this administration thought that going this extreme would be the "deterrent" that stops families fleeing central and south america? Because guess what, as sad as it sounds, these warehouses are STILL safer for their children.
So instead of being the party of family values, the party that pushes two parent households, the party that believes all lives matter, the party that wants LESS political oversight and smaller government, they created a bigger logistical, financial, and moral quagmire.
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“One day, you will be old enough to start reading fairytales again.”
C.S.Lewis
A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
Under the law, a first time offense is at MOST a 6 month jail sentence. AT MOST means that there is to be a hearing to determine said sentence. Which means that, under US laws, the person is not convicted of a crime until said hearing. So why has the government gone to such extremes?
I'm not saying that when a person crosses the border illegally, they should not be detained until they have a hearing. What IS at question, is why this administration thought that going this extreme would be the "deterrent" that stops families fleeing central and south america? Because guess what, as sad as it sounds, these warehouses are STILL safer for their children.
So instead of being the party of family values, the party that pushes two parent households, the party that believes all lives matter, the party that wants LESS political oversight and smaller government, they created a bigger logistical, financial, and moral quagmire.
So, what is your great plan to curb illegal immigration. Sorry - but we cannot just let everyone across the border that wants to come. And you know what? Instead of fleeing their horrible countries, they need to stay and help take them back. Horrible circumstances exist because so many run from the problem rather than fix it and rely on others to take care of them.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
And dammit - I know if my country was that horrible and unsafe for children - I WOULDN'T HAVE THEM until I had already been able to make a better, safe life.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Trump blames/points to Obama. Obama blames/points to Bush. Bush blames/points to Clinton. Clinton blames/points to Bush. JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE DID IT, DOES NOT MEAN IT IS RIGHTEOUS.
And damn it, Obama did not take children away from a parent, the families were kept together. The only kids who were detained alone were the ones who CROSSED the border alone. BIG HUGE DIFFERENCE.
As to the law? U.S. Code › Title 8 › Chapter 12 › Subchapter II › Part VIII › § 1325
a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of— (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
Up until Trump, breaking the law was enforced as a misdemeanor. So if you are going to use the justification that Obama did X so we can do X, then dont be a hypocrite about ALL of what Obama did.
More importantly, don't use the BIBLE to justify not being MORAL. Especially when you only pick out one or two sentences without using said teachings summary.
Romans 13 calls Christians to be subject to governing authorities, it makes it clear that these authorities also have a great debt of responsibility to honor what is right: “Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.” And what is right? The passage goes on to tell us the ultimate truth: “The commandments… are summed up in this one command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Finally, on a logistical and financial stance alone - what a stupidly ****ed up move. It is going to cost the government MORE to house/feed/clothe/care for these kids separately and then finally reunifying them with their parents right before they are deported than it would be to keep them ALL TOGETHER during their parents' hearings.
Oh yeah, and until there is a DUE PROCESS, NO ONE has found guilty.
-- Edited by Ilumine on Tuesday 19th of June 2018 04:13:05 PM
It is ILLEGAL to cross the border into this country without permission. What they damn well should do is make it so they can't cross in the first place - turn them back and don't even take them into this country at all.
Someone who commits a crime in this country is arrested and put in jail. If no one is available to take care of their children - those children are put in foster care. How about the next time the police apprehend a criminal in the act, how about they just let them go? After all, they are innocent until proven guilty.
I am GLAD Trump is enforcing the law to the strongest possible level. Illegal immigration is out of hand. And by your logic, these children are better off being taken away, anyway, so what is the problem?
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
BTW Karl, back to your original point - the media is a circus. They accused the Trump administration of losing track of 1500 kids that were placed with sponsors. What they failed to mention is that most of those sponsors were the kids own family members, and they took off with them, moving purposefully so as not to be found.
This kid immigration thing drives me nuts. You do realize that U.S. foster kids are basically on their own when they turn 18? But illegal immigrant kids should get taken care of with everything including free college, according to the liberals.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Oh, definitely the media is a circus - over here, too. Getting very difficult to find the real news stories and the ones that are hyped up in hopes of attracting listener/watcher numbers through shock value or gore...
The difference between this administration and the prior is the illegals are given beds, where in the past, they were made to sleep on the ground in cages.
My point about Mexico is that if people were fleeing because of persecution, why not just stay in Mexico? Or some other country which is closer? Why come to the U.S.? I'll answer for you. For welfare.
Not only that, but if they did NOT claim asylum, which none of them actually qualify for, they would be reunited within a day or two, if not just hours. But claiming asylum creates an issue due to the law that requires a longer process, which means they are detained longer, and the gov't can't detain the kids that long.
Asylum is for persecution from governments, not crappy economics and crime.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
I am so out of my mind right now about the BS and lies that the media is saying about Trump on this issue. But the only thing that really keeps me from exploding is that 1/2 of this country, and growing, are finally seeing the light.
__________________
Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
I am so out of my mind right now about the BS and lies that the media is saying about Trump on this issue. But the only thing that really keeps me from exploding is that 1/2 of this country, and growing, are finally seeing the light.
No matter how much the media and Hollywood trashes The President, his approval ratings are now higher the Reagan and Obama's at this point of their term.
